Good for the teachers.
I know a few and have been told that typically this is the week they would spend in their classrooms getting ready for next week when students would show up.
A full week of UNPAID time spent getting ready.
The amount of unpaid time teachers put into their jobs is ridiculous. Any other person out there would expect pay, if not over-time pay, for all the hours put in before and after class and on their days off.
Fight till the end, I for one wouldn’t even mind paying a little more provincial income tax to support these people.

The government even told the teachers that they would suspend their lock-out if the teachers wanted to come in this week on their own time to get their classes ready.
Then the lock-out would resume on Sept. 2nd.

WTF is that?

So the BCTF had no interest in negotiating in July!!! What? The tactic is to force the government to give in – but the G’t took the wind out of the BCTF sails with their $40 program. (‘Course, the negotiators need their summer holidays!)
TF members state ‘nobody’ supports the $40 plan – they must surely have redefined ‘nobody’. I, and many others support the $40 plan.
I think the rah-rah gathering at Kamloops only served the small number of manipulators of the BCTF – wonder how their golf games and group socials turned out.

Posted by: Papermaker on August 25 2014 8:56 AM
Good for the teachers.
I know a few and have been told that typically this is the week they would spend in their classrooms getting ready for next week when students would show up.
A full week of UNPAID time spent getting ready.

———

Bullshit. They receive a salary; this week (usually) is part of their job.

You got it right, Papermaker. It is unfortunate that so many of the working class have this vision of nirvana and the capitalist system that that makes life a challenge for many of us.

The corporations that should be footing the bill are just banking the profits and letting us scrap for the crumbs.
Cheers

Actually Retired 02 – the corporations – at least the Canadian ones – are the mainstay of most pension plans – including the teachers, and after taxes, they do two things. They retained some earnings, to keep the business solvent and/or grow, and they pay some out in dividends, to retired people, pensions, and smucks like me who are still working. You could make an argument that senior management is stuffing their drawers with cash, but if every senior executive in B.C. forwent his pay, it wouldn’t begin to make a dent in amount the BCTF is asking for. You want the corporations to pay more taxes – fantastic – expect to receive less on your next pension check – I for one am all for it.

Axman they only get paid if they take the option of being paid year round. So their ten months of pay is divided over 12. They are not being paid to work this week.

Let me explain it another way.. For people who get holiday pay they use that while on holidays ( pssst they aren’t at work being paid from their holiday pay )

People on salary get paid while on holidays..they are not at work while getting paid..

Get it ?

The $40/day plan is a joke. So high school kids don’t matter? What happens if you have a high school kid with special needs? Have a kid that isn’t responsible enough to not just play video games all day instead of what the liberals are saying ” have the ability to pursue self- directed learning”? I think there are high school aged kids that have that have the potential to get into equal amount of trouble as an elementary aged child.
Also, by spending this money that’s allocated to keeping the schools open for all ages, means that their will be no chance of any make up days, especially for grade 12 student.

$40 buy out is short sighted and only appeases the parents who are more concerned about day care than their child’s education. In 10 years when the gov says the system is broken and must go private we will see a tiered system again. Those who can pay will get a good education. Those who can’t won’t. The gov gets pay raises while trying to care for less of its systems. Remember this isn’t about teachers pay anymore, not after the bctf was in 1% of pay agreement then the government dropped their pay bargaining by 5%. The teachers have given up on this. It’s about class size and composition! How can anyone caring about education not see the importance of that.

I challenge all of those eligible parents who are against the $40/day plan to not apply for the money.

I’ll bet just about everybody takes it if it comes to that.

We are now getting down to the short strokes.

When school starts there are two groups that better have a good reason for the schools not opening.

1. The Liberal Government
2. The BCTF.

Make no mistake both of these groups are looking after their own self interest at the expense of the students (many teachers) and the taxpayers.

Keep the schools closed at your own risk. People are sick and tired of poor Government and self serving Unions.

We pay the Government and Teachers good money for the jobs they do, and they had better get their **ducks** in order and go to work and solve this problem, or be prepared for a backlash.

Posted by: P Val on August 25 2014 9:41 AM
Axman they only get paid if they take the option of being paid year round. So their ten months of pay is divided over 12. They are not being paid to work this week.

Let me explain it another way.. For people who get holiday pay they use that while on holidays ( pssst they aren’t at work being paid from their holiday pay )

People on salary get paid while on holidays..they are not at work while getting paid..

Get it ?

———

You really have no idea what you’re talking about.

Palopu.. We pay politicians good money, actually fantastic money as their base starts at $101,859 plus a expense account, and more money for each committee they are on..

Teachers starting wage in PG is $38,016 topping out at $70,299.. So average is $54,157.

Good money is it…nope.

the corporations – at least the Canadian ones – are the mainstay of most pension plans – including the teachers.
=========================================
The corporations make NO contribution to the teachers pension plan. As I am the teachers belong to an “Investment Corporation” that gets it funding from donations by the teachers and the government contributes an equal amount when they nave too.

Unfortunately there is so much missinformation out there that people accept as “fact”
Cheers

You union guys live and die by the “don’t do a minutes work that you aren’t paid for” rule so how about we put time clocks in the schools. Prep work, marking, etc can all be done in the school, not at home. Punch in and punch out.

ps – did you know that Canada is the only modernized country in the free world that has mandatory union laws? You talk about democracy yet if you become a teacher you are forced, by law, to join the union. How democratic is that?

Axman and interceptor:

“Bullshit.”
“You really have no idea what you’re talking about.”

Pretty much sums up your posts.

I think elected officials must be mandated to use the public health care system and put their children through the public school system. How can you see what needs to be improved when you get payed enough to not need them? Premier of BC has her kids in Collingwood. That’s a $10000 – $25000 annual tuition…..

I love it when the BCTF, teachers or teacher supporters suggests to me that I am uninformed!

I love it because it makes me laugh, and laughing makes me happy! I’ve been very happy lately! Happy, happy, happy!

I’m very happy because I am far less “uninformed” than some might think and that’s one of the biggest problems for the BCTF and it’s supporters!

“WE” are no longer as uninformed as they might think we are!

PVAL – The average teacher salary in BC is 73,000. As in take all the teachers (exclude principals and administrators) add their salary, divide by the number, you get 73,000. Not bad for 37 weeks of working. Not bad.

The $40 per kids 13 & under only…so any other parents
with 14 & older have to fend for themselves…hardly fair.

PVAL my source for the 73,000

https://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/reports/pdfs/teacher_stats/public.pdf

PVAL I misread that- it’s 71,500 average on the second page.

If we were to break it down to the average work schedule- say 48 weeks, which is less than what I work- we would be talking about a pay schedule north of 100,000 easily if we factored in a defined benefits pension.

Quick poll- how many private sector employees have a defined benefit pension?

Retired 02

Do you think these “Investment Corporations” put the money in a huge sock drawer until you retire and start to take the money out. No they invest the money so that it will grow at a rate greater than inflation or deposit account interest.

They invest in companies that they think will give them the greatest return. So like it or not next time you cash a pension check be it private or CPP give your thanks to the big evil corporations that made it possible.

Bang on ISIS. Be Retired needs to acknowledge this fact, or prove us wrong! Otherwise he is just ostriching.

Be Retired- Do you understand who writes your pension cheques?

Culpricity.. Each district pays different.. I posted our disrict wages.. Also. You forgot the 2 hrs a night they work at home marking papers etc setting up for next days classes.. So it’s more like 45 weeks.. Plus add more time if they coach etc..

P Val, why would you suggest that we add more time if they coach etc..??

Do you think that teachers are the only people that coach? There are people from all walks of life who volunteer and coach, all for free!!

This city is full of people who coach and otherwise volunteer their time for things like hockey, baseball, soccer, swimming, gymnastics, 4H, Boy Scouts, Girl Guides, Cadets, etc, etc, etc!

To suggest that we need to add more time for teachers is a slap in the face to the many many people that freely volunteer their time for coaching and other activities.

As someone who has coached for many years, and who coached for free, I can tell you that I have coached quite literally hundreds and hundreds of children, and some of them were children of teachers.

If you read my earlier post, you’ll understand why I am happy! Thanks for the laugh!

Because I wanted to hart guy.. Lol

Axman.. Worked for the school district for 5 years… How about you ? I know what I am talking about, I have witnessed what I am talking about.. How about you ?

Culpricity, I get 430 hrs of holidays a year, base salary is over $100,000. Work in private sector and you don’t want to know about my retirement plan from work.. And why do I have this job.. Due to teachers and the education I received from them.

Once again this is not about wages anymore it’s about class size and composition. Day care workers have a maximum amount of children one person can care for. 30+ kids where 10 or more of those kids could have severe learning, physical, or behavioral disabilities. How can good education be taking place when our classes are massive and the children are on so many different spectrums of learning?

Teachers are meant to teach. They are currently nurses, social workers, phycologists, therapists and care aids, as well as teachers.

The average salary of full time employees in Canada is 50,000$ and the 71,500$ average for BC teachers is higher by around 20,000$. It is lower than average salary of BC university professors (UNBC $82,835 to UBC of $114,356).

It seems the union is shooting too high. Is the average BC teacher’s salary higher than BC full time college instructors?

Once again, class size and composition are before the courts to determine if they are even negotiable by the BCTF. So until the court case is settled, if its not about wages then get back to work.

P Val
http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/documents/57-SalaryGrid2010.pdf scroll to the bottom page for 2010 wages.

Please don’t quote the 2006 wage of 38,016 as the wage they make now. 2010 wages for Cat 4 = 42,802. Also Cat 4 only requires a degree, Cat 5 which is the most common placement is 45,909 and those teachers are first year teachers with a degree and an additional one year teaching certificate. That is actually pretty decent money, every other university educated person has to pay their dues and start at the bottom wage scale as well, teachers are no different.
Eliminating the bottom two tiers in the pay scale and effectively bumping everyone up 2 tiers is actually a little greedy. Going from 42,802 to 46,943 and then wage increases ( I agree there should be an increase it is all the extras I don’t agree with like removing the bottom 2 tiers and moving everyone up two tiers, plus fertility treatments.) Seriously this is not greed?

Also adding 38,016 and 70,299 and dividing that by 2 does not make the average salary in the province 54,157. To get that you add ALL the wages and divide by number of teachers which is not 54,157 it is around the 73,000-75,000 mark ( I cant find the report that gave that info)

Wow am I wrong..

Teachers want how much for their jobs.. Wtf
They want to be able to teach the kids. Wtf
The teachers want to spend their time teaching and not spending all their time dealing with the special needs kids..how dare they
It used to be parents going to school to see how their kid could do better now it’s what is the teacher doing wrong. Silly teachers.
4 year post secondary to make less than a valve turning grunt at the Pulpmills makes sense to me

Teachers. Give your heads a shake.

Become premier and spend $500,000 a year on your tax paid visa and see how bad you have it lol

At least they got the summer off again….

What.. They get the summer off.. Wtf. Who teaches summer school? Better not be teachers.. If it the teachers guess they do it for free.. Only way it would make all you haters happy…lol

Most of the haters ululating against teachers wouldn’t last a day in front of a classroom.

Retired you never cease to amaze me!

An interesting read is the Alex Tsukumis article in The Province.
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/08/25/alex-tsakumis-b-c-liberals-are-hoping-to-bankrupt-the-bctf/

He writes, in part:

Thanks, though, to a wholly avaricious provincial government, absent of any real leadership or moral compass, your children, instead, might still remain at home for some time.

***********************************************

You see, the B.C. Liberal plan, as manifest by their appalling track record on public education stewardship over the last dozen years, has been to starve the public school system of its only front-line advocates — the BCTF, the exhausted and long-suffering teachers of this province. Not that the union bosses, through an almost universal inability to appear practical in their demands, have made it easy on themselves, but the specific government blueprint has clearly been to enact legislation that will land the employer and the union in court in as protracted a litigation as possible. Essentially, the Liberals plan to bankrupt the teachers’ union.

***********************************************

A little over a decade ago, Premier Christy Clark launched the first salvo when she was education minister. She introduced two bills which, among related tyranny, ripped out collective bargaining rights for teachers, including over issues such as class size. It set the tone for a prolonged confrontation.

***********************************************

In the ensuing years, the B.C. Teachers’ Federation has won two judgments in B.C. Supreme Court — overturning Clark’s folly. Instead of accepting the noteworthy rebuke, the province — led forcefully behind the scenes by the premier, I’m told — insisted on appealing the dispute to the Supreme Court of Canada after introducing a new bill not unlike the first two.

Karrman – it takes two to tangle.

The BCTF has never been able to negotiate a single deal, while other BC unions have.

To me the the BCTF a another wing of the NDP. This all politics by the BCTF.

The kids, teachers, and public are the only ones getting screwed here!!

Who cares about the Supreme Court decisions. Negotiate a deal now that avoids all the legal bickering in court. If BCTF can’t negotiate a compromise to the classroom issue then this will drag onto until October. No one wins if it lasts that long.

Folks pay attention it’s not about pay and compensation.

It seems to me that the teachers REALLY AREN’T thinking of the students! The bottom line is they are throwing the students under the bus; trying to have their DEMANDS MET! They seem to think they have a right to major salaries. All I see is GREED!
As a pensioner, I see the salary demands are ridiculous!
I heard FassBender say the gov’t would not impose a settlement; the gov’t is not helping the situation with comments like this.
I’ve got Grandkids that are in high school; this whole strike situation is throwing the school schedule down the drain.
Time to smarten up; the both sides!!!!!

ntkr13

This isn’t about greedy teachers, it’s about a BCTF union that is so unreasonable and unrealistic in it’s demands for it’s delegates. The sole purpose of the BCTF is to somehow expose the Liberal government. Personally this is going to blow up in there face when the delegates finally start to revolt against Iker. Let’s see how united the teachers are in mid October!!

ntkr13

This isn’t about greedy teachers, it’s about a BCTF union that is so unreasonable and unrealistic in it’s demands for it’s delegates. The sole purpose of the BCTF is to somehow expose the Liberal government. Personally this is going to blow up in there face when the delegates finally start to revolt against Iker. Let’s see how united the teachers are in mid October!!

The BCTF has been given enough rope to hang themselves, and it appears they are trying to do just that.

Hoping for the government to legislate them back to work shows how bad things are getting.

hockeyfan and JohnnyBelt, read Tskumis’s article.

Do like most folks that do not like there jobs “QUIT”

I see the Liberal Government as nothing more than a bully trying to provoke a fight with the teachers, and here is the evidence:

“VICTORIA — British Columbia’s Opposition New Democrats revealed the contents of court transcripts Wednesday that they said confirm what a judge has already concluded: the Liberal government had a strategy to intentionally provoke a full-scale teachers strike two years ago.”

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/ndp-says-documents-reveal-bc-liberal-strategy-to-provoke-teacher-strike-1.1683842

This Liberal Government as finally accomplishing something it actually set out to do: get the teachers to strike! What’s more, the Lib-Con Party is getting their sheeple supporters to try and convince the rest of us that it is the teacher’s fault… quite laughable really!

Here’s another article worth reading.

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2014/08/21/Ten-Year-School-Deal/

Posted by: karrman on August 25 2014 10:40 AM

Axman and interceptor:
“Bullshit.”
“You really have no idea what you’re talking about.”
Pretty much sums up your posts.
_____________________________________________
Karrman, when it comes to the debating with the anti-teacher crowd on here, I give you, Pylot and some select others, the following advice:

http://tinyurl.com/d3tbdxs

“hockeyfan and JohnnyBelt, read Tskumis’s article. “

Tsukamis, isn’t that the internet bully with the blog site? Yeah, I went there once and was completely turned off.

PVal here is a report for you

http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/bc-teachers/collective-agreements/teacher-salary-grids.aspx

School District 57, 42,802 to 81,523 in 2010 which by my calendar is 4 years ago. They been on a wage loss program lately?

People, the government does not negotiate with the BCTF, the BCPSEA does – it was set up that way by the NDP government. The government of the day can legislate a contract if the two sides do not agree to terms.

The liberals did not ‘rip up’ any contract with the BCTF. The BCTF and BCPSEA did not come to an agreement so they were given a new contract in 2002 by way of legislation. If you don’t want a legislated contract then negotiate. Simple. BCTF is calling parts of the legislated contract unconstitutional but that still doesn’t make the old contract ripped up, it had expired by over a year.

P Val- It’s not worth your time to respond to some of these idiots that post. I am surprised that someone on this site has not asked where is all the money going to come from.

slinky, I believe you are wrong; check out this article:

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Vaughn+Palmer+history+faith+Liberals+dealings+with+teachers/9912106/story.html

Oldman1 people have a right to their opinions. They are not idiots merely because you disagree. Perhaps try refuting some of the issues instead of insults

JohnnyBelt,

“Tsukamis, isn’t that the internet bully with the blog site? Yeah, I went there once and was completely turned off.”

That’s exactly the way that I would have expected you to respond.

Thanks for the chuckle, BeingHuman.
I’ve always enjoyed Mark Twain quotations

So Peeps, you’re saying that the nasty bullying Liberals set out to provoke a strike by the BCTF 2 years ago, and you are saying that documents released this past February revealed this scheme?

So, even though the BCTF is aware of all of this, they are still so stupid that they would pull the first punch and end up on strike this Spring!

Goodness gracious, Jim Iker and his crew are even dumber than I thought!! Might be why you like them so much, eh Peeps, birds of a feather and all that!!

Hart Guy,
for a person who considers himself informed,you do post some idiotic comments

Both the province and BCTF have their lawyers and they can argue their case better than us in court if they don’t reach a settlement. The union can also hire a full time lawyer to save money.

If a union with its resources and political connections cannot get justice in BC in a timely manner, then what about average Joe who has a grievance against a government entity? The lawyers and their firms are the main beneficiary of this system.

karrman, do you seriously believe that our illustrious BCTF would be receptive to a system and situation such as that which exists in Finland?

In Finland, it’s very hard to become a teacher! According to your article, only one of eight applicants to teacher education programs is accepted; each teacher has a master’s degree.

In BC, just about anybody can become a teacher and the BCTF is more concerned about breading mediocrity than it is about holding it’s teachers to a higher educational standard!

If you don’t believe me, just look at the idiots that they keep electing to run this show! Jim Iker? Seriously??

karrman, thanks for the compliment!

Sometimes I like to crank things up a bit and an “idiotic” comment seems to do that quite effectively!

But karrman, even you must admit that every once in a while, yes every once in a while, I do post something that seems semi-intelligent!

You gotta give me that, right??

Hart Guy:
In BC, just about anybody can become a teacher and the BCTF is more concerned about breading mediocrity than it is about holding it’s teachers to a higher educational standard!

Another silly statement.

Hart Guy:
Your tiresome attack on teachers while ignoring the gov’t role in this dispute indicates you do give much thought to any idea or opinion that contradicts you firmly held beliefs.
Why don’t you read Tsukumis’s article or are you you another who was turned off because he’s a bully?

Anyone who spouts union rhetoric is ‘informed’, while anyone who disagrees is ‘an idiot’. I see.

Johnny Belt:
Not true.
But your comments in which you somehow think that your opinions are facts are negative, tiresome and ring wing crap. And you call yourself informed.

karrman, I like to think that my attack is directed at the BCTF and not at individual teachers. As I stated at the start of this job action, I believe that most teachers are just like the rest of us, trying to make a living and provide for our families and our futures.

However, the BCTF is another entity all unto itself and it feeds upon it’s members!

I am really surprised that you would suggest that my earlier comment regarding the BCTF being more concerned about breading mediocrity is another statement. Perhaps your tiresome support for teachers and your tireless attack on those of us who dare rock the boat speaks volumes to the ideological differences between us!

Some of us aren’t afraid to call a spade a spade, while others are more worried about hurting the spade’s feeling and so instead they would tell it that it can be a heart, or a diamond, of the jack of clubs, anything but a spade when it fact it’s a spade!!

karrman, at times in the past, you and I have disagreed, but at times we have also agreed! Amazing!!

Silly statements? Idiotic statements? Yes, you might think that I make them once in a while! Funny thing is, sometimes the shoe is on the other foot!

My feelings aren’t hurt! Are your’s?

P.S. – I’ll read Tsukumis’s article! Are you willing to read something that isn’t published by the Tyee, the Huffington Post or some other left wing organization?

karrman, I like to think that my attack is directed at the BCTF and not at individual teachers. As I stated at the start of this job action, I believe that most teachers are just like the rest of us, trying to make a living and provide for our families and our futures.

However, the BCTF is another entity all unto itself and it feeds upon it’s members!

I am really surprised that you would suggest that my earlier comment regarding the BCTF being more concerned about breading mediocrity is another silly statement. Perhaps your tiresome support for teachers and your tireless attack on those of us who dare rock the boat speaks volumes to the ideological differences between us!

Some of us aren’t afraid to call a spade a spade, while others are more worried about hurting the spade’s feeling and so instead they would tell it that it can be a heart, or a diamond, of the jack of clubs, anything but a spade when it fact it’s a spade!!

karrman, at times in the past, you and I have disagreed, but at times we have also agreed! Amazing!!

Silly statements? Idiotic statements? Yes, you might think that I make them once in a while! Funny thing is, sometimes the shoe is on the other foot!

My feelings aren’t hurt! Are yours?

P.S. – I’ll read Tsukumis’s article! Are you willing to read something that isn’t published by the Tyee, the Huffington Post or some other left wing organization?

ok karrman, I read his article!

His opinion piece, in my opinion, glorified things that shouldn’t be glorified and glossed over things that perhaps should have been pointed out, or at the very least should have been mentioned.

Bottom line though, he didn’t change my opinion of the BCTF or the Government one bit!

What I did find humorous was his blog! I read bits and pieces of it here and there and couldn’t help chuckling to myself over the similarities between him and Ezra Levant of Sun News!! Ih wait, you lefties hate Ezra Levant and Sun News, don’t you!

Alex Tsakumis and Ezra Levant, together, telling it like it is!! Now that’s a broadcast that I would watch!!

Let’s see which party blinks first. BCTF or Christy Government? You guys are ready to put any money on it?

Hart Guy:

Please take the time and inform the readers how informed you really are on the teachers dispute. I am also happy when people like you go on a 8 post rant and you have not touched on anything other than to make yourself look like a fool. So yes please give us one more laugh.

Hart Guy,
“Alex Tsakumis and Ezra Levant, together, telling it like it is!! Now that’s a broadcast that I would watch!!”

Not me.
“telling it like it is” …. only in their own minds.
I admit that I do prefer Tsukumis to Levant.

Levant’s is a former Rothmann’s tobacco lobbyist who once proposed privatizing the Canada Pension Plan. His views are too far to the right for me.

I believe that Tsukumis would take any gov’t to task, regardless of which party was in power.