“BCPSEA still doesn’t have a written proposal from the BCTF”.

Yet fassbender rejects binding arbitration before he knows what the proposal contains.

“They need to get in the affordability zone”

This is a precondition and has been repeated ad nauseum.

“we want to negotiate class size and composition”

Including that is a second precondition, and rather hypocritical considering the government appeal of the court case is based on their position that the teachers do not have the right to negotiate those things as they enacted legislation removing it.

The government was never going to hand over the public purse to an arbitrator. Time for the BCTF wake up and smell the coffee, and work a little harder to take a deal that taxpayers can afford.

It’s good to see as a society we are starting to address the two major problems we in Canada and the rest of the developed world have, which I heard described nicely by a financial analyst on a money show on a Vancouver, B.C. radio station back in December, 2010.

“Way more money has been borrowed than will ever get repaid”

“Way more promises have been made by governments and so on than will ever be kept”

If Fassbender isn’t going to arbitrate, then he must legislate. If it’s all about Families First, get the teachers back in the classroom at the current level of pay. In 2001 they declared education an Essential Service. I guess he and Clark don’t see educating the children of BC as essential any longer.

Thankyou Mr. Fassbinder.

Wonder how much that Cameron dude is making keeping the children out of school?

Wonder how much that iker dude is making keeping the children out of school?

So when the Liberals lose the appeal again then what? No school until Janauary I guess?

I wonder how many people that are so worried about their kids education will pull them out of school when they have to make up lost time next July and August?

Nothing is affordable but yet everyone gets a raise. So find the money they seem to find it for everything else. Which public sector union got unlimited massages in their collective agreement that Christy didn’t know about?

There is so much crap in the curriculum the government will take most of it out and any kid making 40% on there marks will pass. The government is above everything and including the law, makes me sick. Hope you guys can sleep at night knowing that Christy’s kid is going to private school on the expense of all of us because I doubt that she is paying for it out of her pocket

Good! Time to get to work and hammer out a realistic deal that actually is educationally beneficial for our youth that doesn’t pander to lining pockets of our already well-paid civil servants.

There will be a time when the teachers will have to be legislated back to work but not by calling the house back early. They are due back in early October and it only takes three days to pass a bill.

You are right Pylot Project they should be sent back by extending the terms of the expired contract to June 2015. If they are without a contract at the end of the school year they might be willing to work through the summer to get a signed contract in place.

How the heck does Iker expect to hammer out a contract when since the resumption of talks after the summer break it has been meet for a couple of sessions–>have a weekend in Kamloops–>meet for a session or two–> call for mediation–> talk over the phone–> call for a meeting with minister Fassbender—>exchange smoke signals–>demand a meeting with the Premier–> shrug shoulders and admit idea bank is in overdraft–> call for binding arbiration–>rinse repeat.

Distributed learning materials produced by the Ministry of Education is at least one grade level ahead of the average education provided in the public school classrooms. Why the discrepancy? Why is it that a student can complete a correspondence grade level 3 weeks ahead of a standard school year and only require 4 hours of time per day to complete each section? Under that system, students come away with more value and have more time for sports, extracurricular activities as well as socialisation.

Puzzling isn’t it?

I think to weed out the crappy teachers as said to some on here, it should be up to the principal which gets paid very hefty to weed them out, there should be a 1 year probationary period that they have to prove that they can perform. Still even after 25 years there should be re evaluated to see if they are still up to standards and that again should be done by the principals of the school.

Also how come no one cares about the salaries of the administrators. They make double the amount of a teacher and obviously don’t do to much about getting rid of crappy teachers.

Not puzzling at all commoner. The curriculum is not that difficult and when you have an 80 minute class that has 60 minutes of that of a teacher basically reading out of a textbook, it’s a waste of time. I did one year of correspondence due to issues with teachers and I finished grade 10 well in advance of my peers.

Correspondence allows to do work the entire time but think about how much wasted time there is in school. School starts at 8:15. First class is 8:30. Class is 70 minutes. 15 minute break. Another 70 minute class. 60 minute lunch. 70 minute class. 15 minute break. 70 minute class. School over at 3. 6 hours and 45 minutes of class with maybe an hour of actual work being done.

If the BCTF has not made so many outlandish requests for contract negotiations at the start I might of been more inclined to support them as it is the BCTF is using social media to negotiate and that is not right either sorry but no support from me

Buzzinga, I personally witnessed a teacher punch a student in the face. The administration tried to fire the teacher. The union was the one to fought to keep the teacher employed. Kind of hard to do anything when your hands are tied by the union.

I doubt it Moose if that happened then there would have been legal consequences and his butt would have been out on the curb. What ever happened 20-40 years ago would not have happened now.

I cannot comment on what happened legally or if anything did but I do know he only missed one day of teaching as he was back in class on Monday morning. That made for an excellent learning environment when the teacher hates the kids and the kids don’t respect the teacher.

Wikapedia describes “Boko Haram” as an Islamic term for “Western Education is Sinful.
The Liberal approach is “BC Public Education is Sinful” and they are pulling out all the stops to destroy a structured system that has served this Province well for countless decades.
The one mistake that Mr. Iker has made is to invite Cristy Clarke to comment.
She along with her sidekick Gordon Campbell started the ball rolling in 2002.
Those that are supporting the Lib’s in this endevor must have gotten their eduction outside of public education, because they sure haven’t understood the concept of Student/teacher relationships and what it has meant to our Province these many years.
In addition they have shown absolute disrespect for the law, by failing to adhere to the decisions by the Courts. How I ask can anyone support this.

Does anyone know who the arbitrator would be or how they are chosen? Its obviously an independent 3rd party but how do you find one who wouldn’t be biased one way or the other?

There is no way Iker would consider arbitration if the BCPSEA put preconditions on it. He has been lying to the media to make his case better than it is

Buzzinga – again private school doesn’t mean Harvard. You don’t think she can afford 300 to 400 a month? I know of a teacher sending their kids to private for 300 a month – didnt make a lot of sense until now, that is where I am on speed dial to on monday, you can keep supporting Iker and his cronies

yeah I heard thru the grapevine that there going to fly GORDON CAMPBELL TO DO the arbitation

Good for you

Haha ice, there is a name I haven’t heard in years. I immediately thought of the goofy smile in his mugshot.

The only reason the government does not want arbitration is because they are unwilling to give a fair deal.

Two types of arbitration that could work. Both sides give final offers and the arbitrator is forced to select one. This forces both sides to offer their absolute best and the one I think is best. The second type sees each side put forward an offer and the judge can pick parts from each, meet in the middle, or meet closer to one side than the other.

Both types would see each side present arguments to justify their demands.

No, Iker wants ‘preconditions’ so he doesn’t lose the farm if it backfires.

The moose, what kind of lab work did you do while doing correspondence ? How was gym class?

I have personally seen a student attack a teacher and the student got a one week suspension, that’s it.

The teachers want a %1.6 a year raise.. Other public sectors gave already signed for % 2.0 some %2.3
So where does the government get the “what we give one union we have to give the others ” if other unions are getting different wage increases ?

I actually did lots of activity PVal. Winter I joined skating and hockey and spring and fall I joined a gym and was active daily. Sure beats standing in line for 45 minutes til its your turn to do 3 minutes of activity. As for labs, I went to a local community college when required.

slinky —> preconditions are normal in an arbitration, also known as terms of reference or jurisdiction … an arbitrator would require these to be set before accepting the work …one of the preconditions would be that an arbitrator would no be expected to entertain arguments or devise a solution that are contrary to legal precedent or the law … that is part of Iker’s argument to exclude E80.

The government is rejecting arbitration because it will not produce the results the government wants. End of discussion.

PVal rose coloured glasses. Government is already at 1.2 percent and you do have to consider benefits into your calculations as they are a form of wage increase. Compare what the other unions got in increase and benefits compared to what the union has tabled and government has tabled.

They want more than 1.6 per year. They want 5,000 to cover raises last year (what is that – like 5 to 10%?) and millions in back pay for work performed since 2002

Again anotherside, if government tabled arbitration with preconditions the BCTF would cry foul all over the media. Truth is they can’t negotiate, never have been able to and never will. They would rather have a legislated contract and then spend their union’s dues to fight it in court and are peed that the Liberals refuse to give that to them

There is a reason Vince Ready walked out of mediation

The millions in backpay for work performed since 2002 should not be seen in the same way as wage and benefit compensation. Justice Griffin encouraged that this be dealt with through negotiations instead of through grievances. It will cost the government much more if they go to grievance because the cost of running grievances will be added to the payout as an expense to the taxpayer. The other benefit of bargaining it now is that the BCTF has agreed to have it wrapped into other forms of compensation such as class size and composition. If it does end up going to grievances then it will come back in the form of cash and not make any improvements for students.

Posted on Saturday, September 6, 2014 @ 7:42 PM by the moose
Buzzinga, I personally witnessed a teacher punch a student in the face. The administration tried to fire the teacher. The union was the one to fought to keep the teacher employed. Kind of hard to do anything when your hands are tied by the union.
———————

I call utter BS on this one.

Since the BCTF loves to wave around how much teachers in Alberta make how come they never also tell that classes in Alberta have NO size limit legislation?

There is a reason why the Liberals lost twice in court! Second time they were fined 2 million dollars! Have they paid it yet?

St George’s private school tuition for grade 1-7 18k per year if you prepay. I wonder how much there teachers get paid and how many special needs kids there are in the class!

http://www.stgeorges.bc.ca/ftpimages/442/download/download_1276264.pdf

Is there a reason why this story is in a bold font and all the other stories are not? Just wondering.

Posted on Saturday, September 6, 2014 @ 11:20 PM by interceptor
Since the BCTF loves to wave around how much teachers in Alberta make how come they never also tell that classes in Alberta have NO size limit legislation?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And yet Alberta still has smaller class sizes. So tell me, how is your point relevant now!

Sorry dragonmaster. We must have imagined it all then. The sound of his fist hitting his face. The sound of the teacher arguing with the principal in the hallway. I guess we never spent the next day discussing the incident with administration. Just because you think it’s bs doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Its relevant because the school districts in Alberta control the class size and not the teachers, as it should be. The teachers are employees – thats it. They can negotiate wages and benefits. They shouldnt (nor will they) have the power to control the class sizes.
Thank you for pointing out that their system works better.

Thank you for pointing out that our BC system is underfunded. Their funding allows them to have smaller class sizes and provide teachers with a raise that meets inflation, not to mention pays them $19,000 more per year for a teacher with the same years in I have.

Meanwhile a judge has twice ruled that teachers have a constitutional right to bargain class size and composition.

Is this strike really about public education? Or is it a convininent opertunity for the card carrying NDP unions to strike back at the defeat in the last election?

How do you respond to someone who thinks its OK to hit a student if “they most likely deserve it”? I certainly hope you are not in a position of power over children if you have such a cavalier attitude towards such a thing.

Is that millions in back pay due to the ripping up of the contract? If it is then it’s warranted. The courts found Clark guilty of this and as a result she (we the tax payers) have to pay for her ego.

They should bring back the strap Moose! A long freaking time ago. When the parents get upset because you hit their little bundle of joy give them one too. I guess you are one of those everyone gets a blue ribbon get in the corner for a time out type of folks. Well it’s not reality Moose. Best straighten them out when they are young else someone else will later on in life. Now if he was smacked for handing in his homework too late then an “F” should suffice for that. Oh but we can’t give out an “F” anymore because everyone gets a blue ribbon. Boy are they in for a surprise if they go to College/University.

Yes P Val and that is what the fuss is all about. The government isn’t budging on that because they are appealing that court decision for the third time. How many appeals do they get?

I was involved in a wage proposal recently, so I have some experience determining the cost.

Let’s just pretend that a Category 5 minimum base rate in BC is $45,909 and the Maximum is $74,353.
And a Category 6 minimum base rate is $50,588 and the maximum is $81,488
2
When it comes to a wage increase, these are the initial numbers we start with. However, there is so much more that must be considered.
2As the wages go up, so does the contributions to the Defined Pension Plan.
And the Salary Indemnity Plan Allowance of 2%.
And the Remote and rural allowance of 2%.
And the Positions of Responsibility Allowance.
And the Comprehensive health & welfare benefit plan.
And the Professional Development funding allowance.
And the leave of absence costs.(Teachers need to be replaced)

Now let’s add some of the other requests and associated costs.
Additional prep time for elementary students – $82.2 Million over 5 years
Additional prep time for secondary students – $5.9 Million over 5 years
Class sizes changed – $225 Million per year
Oh, I forgot the signing bonus of $5,000 let’s say – another $150 Million

It’s just not as simple as saying that our teachers are the second lowest paid in the entire country behind Quebec. That is true.

But there is so much more that needs to be considered. And all of it has a cost that has to be paid by someone. The government has no money. Really, they get all of it from somebody else first. And then dole it out as they see fit. My hope is that level heads will prevail and both sides would come forward with reasonable expectations.

Very good post, BYOB. At least some people get it.

Smooth: “Meanwhile a judge has twice ruled that teachers have a constitutional right to bargain class size and composition.”

And that’s only because Glen Clark sold us taxpayers down the river in 1998. You never thank him for that.

Nobody else in the country has this ability. And that decision is being rightfully appealed.

BYOB, thanks very much, very informative.

BYOB!

So! We all know it is going to cost. What did it cost for the last health care worker increase?

“And that’s only because Glen Clark sold us taxpayers down the river in 1998. You never thank him for that.”

What about what Christy did JB! This should of been settled a long time ago and we wouldn’t be owning the teachers so much in back pay for class composition. How much has been spent fighting this in court? How much more are they going waste appealing? Will the three judge panel send someone to jail for breaking the law?

Sure maybe Glenn sold us down the river but not solving it by illegally trying to pass two bills to strip them of their rights sure hasn’t helped.

For those keeping score on this thread.

Moose has posted 8 times
Buzzinga has posted 5
Slinky has posted 4 times
Smooth has posted 4 times

What if we let the free market decide. If one third of the teachers decided not to return after the strike the school districts would have no problem filling the vacant positions even under the expired contract, those who applied would be more than happy to work with those wages and benefits.

The money could then be directed to a place where job vacancies cannot be filled right across the province–> the nurses who could be given enough to keep the ones we have and attract new nurses from elsewhere.It could even convince young people to consider nursing as a profession rather than getting a teaching certificate that will gather dust while they work at Starbucks waiting for a job opening.

NoWay: “What about what Christy did JB!”

What about it? She wouldn’t have had to do what she did if Glen Clark hadn’t signed away rights that never should have been signed away. I thought we went over this.

That agreement effectively robs the ability of the government (the employer) to set education policy. And you wonder why the government is appealing that?

Thanks Glen Clark. There, if nobody else will say it, I will.

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2014/09/04/BC-Place-Giant-Lemon/

Posted on Sunday, September 7, 2014 @ 12:50 AM by northman
Is this strike really about public education? Or is it a convininent opertunity for the card carrying NDP unions to strike back at the defeat in the last election?
———————-

Yeah thats it! Or maybe it’s the lack of english spelling skills prevalent in the world today.