Just sharing some info.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-study-to-probe-mystery-of-dying-moose/article15258560/

https://www.thedodo.com/community/MarcBekoff/hunting-wolves-stress-831065282.html

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Heavily+hunted+wolf+populations+have+elevated+stress/10374289/story.html#__federated=1

ohhhhh BLAMING and SINGLING out First Nation, are we??? aND YOU CAN prove THEY ARE DWINDLING down the moose population???

Stillsmokin: read the article again. It didn’t say that at all.
I think the biggest problem is the Wildlife Branch of government. They don’t listen to guides, hunters or anyone else about the problems that are presented to them.
Hunters have been saying for years, that it was a mistake to have a cow season. Have they listened to that?
Any farmer knows that if you want to have calves, you don’t butcher the cows.
And yes, the railways kill and injure an inordinate number of moose every year but then, many are killed on our roads as well.
Moose are a very important resource that need more protection and realistic conservation.

Reducing or eliminating the hunting of cows and calves is a no brainer, the hunting of cows and calves should only be used as a last effort for population control.

We know that we have a problem with some First Nations taking indiscriminate numbers of moose at odd times of the year. The First Nations have to be convinced that we have a problem, if they are, as they suggest, stewards of the environment, they will listen.

Welll If I misunderstood the above… I’ll be danged.. There are many reasons why the decline.. but to single out a group specifically???

In the area I hunt (within 120 km of PG) wolf track everywhere you go and in the first 3 hours of hunting this year I saw 10 black bears , all of them doing very well. A decade or two back we where allowed 5 black bear per year, then it went to two, then it went to two with all edible portions removed. At this point many people stopped taking black bear. Pervious to this many people just took the hams (which when done up properly is good table fare)now most don’t bother at all.
Black bear are quasi varmints and hunting regulations of the 80’s on back essentially treated them that way, and there was no shortage of them then.
Realistic harvest number on black bear and a bounty on wolves , are but few things that will help the ungulate population.

As a hunter who spent a lot of time out this year I can say everything in the article could well be a contributing factor. I had 3 tags for the season , one moose and 2 deer and have yet to see any let alone shoot one . What I have seen is many areas with tracks of deer moose and elk. All of which are followed by multiple wolf tracks of varying sizes and numbers . I have even been witness to personally seeing one of the largest wolves I have ever seen jump out of the trees going for the same flock of grouse we were . I cannot say what is being done about any of the other scenarios but as a hunter who reads and studies the hunting regs I can say the wolf population is being looked at . In fact there is an open season on wolf for 10 1/2 months out of the year with no limit on how many can be shot . Of course this will change in time as numbers are brought under control . I for one do not advocate sport hunting or trophy hunting . I believe you should only take what you will use , but even I find myself partaking in the wolf cull this year after seeing there is a need for it .

I know for a fact the the guide outfitters have provided documentation and proof to the Wildlife Branch for the past 5 years, pointing out the devastation and impact the wolves are doing to our moose population, This year the local arbiters’s meat lockers have been quite barren.

First Nations: this is a food source for all races in BC and they should be required to abide by the same rules (in all cases) as all the rest of the BC residents. Do a reversal on that and all BC residents should be eligible and have access to the same government funding and exemptions.

Lets start by focusing on the moose problem. Thanks

What is the evidence that wolves are a major factor in the decline in moose population? I am skeptical because studies elsewhere have shown that it is very difficult for a wolf pack to take down a healthy adult moose, as one might expect. Adult moose killed by wolves are almost invariably diseased or malnourished. Wolves can take calves, but the cows are pretty good at protecting their calves, so again one doesn’t expect a lot of calves to be taken unless the cows are in poor shape.
If there is evidence of a lot of moose kills by wolves, it is probably a symptom rather than a cause. That is, it probably means that the moose are under stress for other reasons, such as habitat reduction or tick load, and that the wolves are taking advantage of this. What is the evidence that predation by wolves is the cause of the decline in moose population?

stillsmokin: I don’t believe the article at all ‘singled out’ First Nations. They named them as one of MANY factors affecting the moose population. If you perhaps re-read the article, you will see that far more than First Nations were named as a problem. Hunting as a whole, CN rail, lack of bear hunting, tick infestations, etc etc.

I agree with a previous poster, let’s focus on the moose problem.

It seems to me that when it comes to doing anything specific to solve problems this Government it frozen in time.

There is no doubt there are many reasons why Moose on are the decline, however there is only one thing that is constant through out the years and this is Government inaction.

I doubt that trains kill anymore moose than they have in the past for the simple reason that we have gone to longer, and lesser trains,. Furthermore we have reduced the number of trains going South to Vancouver with the sale of BC Rail. Having said that, there still is a role for CN Rail to play in ensuring that area’s are cleared so that moose can get off the tracks. CN Rail is obsessed with the bottom line since it went private years ago, and therefore try to keep costs down in every area. I would guess that they have reduced the amount of money they spend on trying to mitigate moose kill. We need to look into this problem.

Another factor that might be effecting the moose population is the introduction of Elk in this area. I am not familiar with how the Elk population operates, however I have heard that Elk will put the run on moose. Has anyone, anywhere looked at this???

It is obvious with the number of bears put down just in the City limits that we have a huge bear problem. We need to come to terms with how we manage wildlife,. Savings bears, so that they can help kill off the moose population is probably not good wildlife management.

I have seen more wolves in past few years, than I have seen in my whole life in this area, so its obvious that they have moved in, and are a factor.

It goes without saying that ATV’S allow hunters to get into areas they could not get into previously, and this also has an impact on the moose population.

There are many factors involved, and it will take a concerted effort to turn this situation around.

I haven’t hunted for years, and don’t plan to in the future, however I believe that we have a responsibility to ensure that we have a stable wildlife population in North Central BC.

Mike Morris, our new MLA is a hunter. He is also our representative for this area, and one would think that he, of all people should be all over this file. Not sure what he has done since he was elected, however this seems like a good file for him to run with.

Billposer , I have seen with my own eyes ONE single wolf take down a large healthy Bull Moose . I have also seen that wolves are getting rather large as they follow the herds . I was out with a small group a couple weeks ago and the one we saw topped well over 200 lbs with a paw the size of my hand. Talking with other hunters they are all seeing the same thing . Larger wolves and smaller packs . I am no expert , but just basing on what I have witnessed while out hunting it would seem to me that the wolves are the greatest threat to game population , not just moose. The fact that this one was stalking the same flock of grouse we were indicates the problem is far worse than thought . A large 200 plus pound wolf preying on small game birds shows the decline in large game . I would also venture to say wolves are not the only culprit , but bears and wild cats as well. The cougar population is increasing and they are packing up like wolves as we saw earlier this spring .

Adult moose killed by wolves are almost invariably diseased or malnourished.

Bill are you posing for Walt Disney? Wolves do allot feeding on ungulates in the winter and spring when snow conditions are optimal (for a wolf to hunt). A wolf needs X number of pounds of meat a week to survive, ungulates are made of meat so go figure. Also , in calving season the wolf and bear are in competition for this new protein source and are easy pickings for them.
In the small valley I hunt (for the last 30 years) when the wolf population goes up the ungulate population goes down, this is a direct observation. When you see 10 plus bear a day , along with wolf, the moose sightings are fewer. This occurred in ‘my’ area around 1990 and took several years to recover.
Hunting is regulated, and whether I use an ATV or not I am only allowed what the regulations dictate, therefore still working within the management frame work.
One last thing, it is poor wildlife management when those who set seasons and limits are guided by religion…….spirit bears…..give me a freaking break. Nothing more than a group of people seeking power over others.

Human predation is at an all time high, moose coming together to mate are getting noticed and putting to much stress on the animals, people loving bears too much, large wolf populations. And a lot of cougar moving into the area as well, calves could be easy targets.

We first started seeing more and more wolves a good distance from town but now we are seeing the wolves much closer in. I am surprised that they have not been hitting the livestock yet. Maybe this winter….

Furbink. I am well aware the wolves feed on “ungulates”. In particular, I know that they feed on deer and caribou, and occasionally on larger animals, such as moose, elk, and even bison. The question I asked is whether there is evidence of wolves killing moose in large numbers, and if so, whether that is a direct cause of the decline in moose population or rather a symptom of other stresses on the moose.

Stillsmokin. “ohhhhh BLAMING and SINGLING out First Nation, are we??? aND YOU CAN prove THEY ARE DWINDLING down the moose population???”

You have just done the very thing you are complaining about, you took one of many possible reasons our moose are in decline and you used it to voice your complaint. It is attitudes such as your own that will make it very hard to help assist our moose population. Natives are humans…. and because of this it, does not make natives immune from the mistakes that we humans make in managing our natural resources.

If we want to help reverse the decline in the moose population, we need to look at all the reasons that moose are dying faster than they can repopulate . Natives should not be exempt from this.

wow harleyguy! that must have been one hell of a sight to see.

Furbink. I am well aware the wolves feed on “ungulates”. In particular, I know that they feed on deer and caribou, and occasionally on larger animals, such as moose, elk, and even bison. The question I asked is whether there is evidence of wolves killing moose in large numbers, and if so, whether that is a direct cause of the decline in moose population or rather a symptom of other stresses on the moose.

Like I mentioned wolves are a factor. One wolf needs 15-19 ‘deer sized ungulates’ per year to survive. So if there are 10 wolves in my valley that would account for 150-190 deer sized ungulates per year for this pack ( my hunting area is maybe 5% of the management unit). My valley is 15km wide and 25km long, so you can see that it doesn’t take long to devastate the ungulate population in a small area. When the pickin’s get slim they move to the next valley if there is any thing left for them. Bears are opportunistic (as in grab a just born calf), they like meat but can survive with out.
So field observation, learning the characteristics of the wolf (and black bear), and a little math will give you some insight to what is going on.

Quiet, folks don’t mention a wolf cull or else we will have the Disney, David Suzuki type people invasion followed by Glodal news breathless reporter.

UNBC had a free lecture a couple of weeks back by the Chief Wildlife Veterinarian for the Ministry of Natural Resources or whatever it is now called. The topic was the recent drastic reduction in the moose population, estimated at 70%. The vet said that there is a large study underway which involves radio collared moose as well as detailed reports on moose related activities from people who are in the bush. Some of the factors which other posters have mentioned are being studied but also she talked about the effect of climate change on moose. For example, the pine beetle killed off huge swaths of trees and those swaths were logged extensively. This leads to the decline in moose browse such as willows as well as the introduction of many more roads which allows access to previously isolated bush. The other interesting possibility that she mentioned was liver flukes. These parasites seem to be moving north because of the rise in temperatures and a liver fluke infestation leads to the decline in health in a moose. There is a study underway in Minnesota which targets liver flukes as a factor in the decline in moose health. What the vet asked is if anyone comes across a dead moose, to possibly take samples of hair and tissue, in particular liver, and to take pictures and report what else they observe. Better yet, contact the Ministry before going out and get exactly what it is they are asking you to do. Unfortunately, I didn’t take notes at the lecture.

There has been a season for calves and two points for years. There goes the next generations for years to come. Wolves take the other calves.
Liver flukes? Yep animals get sick just like humans.
But Ben, if we get a bunch of wolf huggers up here in the Central Interior, I’m blaming you!
Need a wolf cull for sure, bounty or otherwise. They’ve been increasing like crazy the last couple years.

Furbink, I’m not debating that wolves do not kill moose & other ungulates. My question is one of sheer numbers. If nature follows the age old equation of supply & demand, why are wolf numbers increasing instead of decreasing? If their food supply is dwindling, then starvation & disease would take care of a predator surplus. Instead we are seeing the opposite, so there must be another food source out there for these animals. In areas that I frequent I see way more deer & elk than there ever were before. Maybe other ungulates are pushing moose out of their habitat & are replacing moose as part of a predatory food source? I don’t think there is one clear cut answer to this problem.

The CNR and CPR kill more moose than likely all the hunters put together . When the snow is deep the cows and calves go down the tracks because the snow is too deep in the bush . It’s a disgrace . Anyone that has run trains will tell you this . It’s a slaughter like no other . It’s mostly cows heavy with calves and calves . So stop blaming each other . It’s unproductive . People kill moose to eat . The trains kill them because they get in the way . And they number in the hundreds every year . When the snow gets heavy there is a blood stain that reaches from tyee east as far as you go with a break thought most populated areas . It’s gut wrenching.

I should have wrote they number in the hundred on just one subdivision . In total they must number in the high thousands .

billposer: You should go and talk to some trappers who see moose kills in the trapping season.
They can and do take a lot of moose. Healthy ones too. They attack the rectum and pull the entrails out through there.
It can take a big healthy moose four days to die from that. After their initial devastating attack, the wolves will go away and come back a couple of days later when the moose is very weakened by his injuries and then feast.
They hardly leave a hair when they are done.

Wolves are not picky about what they eat. They kill what they can, and when there are enough wolves they can pretty much kill anything. Nature works in feast and famine circles, it is not balanced, or ever in equilibrium, these are things that white folks pretending to be native (Grey Owl, Chief Seattle) or hypocrites like David Suzuki preach. There is no foundation in science to ever say that nature is kind or moderate.(think of 50,000 years of glaciation, pine beetle epidemics, comet impacts etc)

If we want and value moose, deer, caribou we need to take a turn at reducing the wolf pack down to something where it was 20 years ago. I for one firmly believe a hunter should kill a wolf whenever that fleeting chance presents itself. There are enough wolves.

I also think that the ministry of environment has tried to increase antlerless seasons at the same time the wolves are getting out of control again (note wolves are never really at our control!) Time to emliminate antlerless seasons, get rid of any buck mule deer seasons, get rid of cow/calf season and trim the bull harvest dramatically. That along with more road deactivation, ATV restrictions, harmonized first nation harvests will help with us two legged wolves.

Finally the most important thing that we can all do is stop with the use of Vision in the forests. Vision (Glyphosate) kills everything the moose eat. Not a good plan if we want to bring back ungulates.

I’ve already started. Been a number of years since got a moose. Hoping one less moose gotten means a multiple effect in increasing the stock. See a few in town but seems the deer population is increasing faster. Maybe cause they are all moving into town

“Human predation is at an all time high” .. must be illegal hunters then because the ministry did a program this year designed to allow first time hunters to get a license without the CORE course and to hunt and use the tag of a legal hunter, the reason being to bring back interest in hunting because of dwindling hunter numbers.

“There has been a season for calves and two points for years” .. only 2 areas in Area 7A had a calf season this year, the rest of area 7 only allowed 65 and over and under 18 to hunt calves. Still not sure why under 18 was allowed to hunt calves. I hunt where there are lots of wolves and it was almost a record year for successful hunters bagging their game, so that theory doesn’t hold water with me. Allowing jet boats, ATVs, access into back country has played a much bigger part in overkill. The regs were designed for a time when people either walked or drove the roads, they need to get with the times.

What about the spike in deer? Could they be pushing the moose out? Growing up in PG you would see deer, but nothing like what it was the last few years I lived there.

One thing is for sure, if there is a spike in the wolf population, that tells me that there is a healthy population of SOMETHING for them to be eating. If it isn’t moose, what is it? Maybe that’s part of the problem . . .