I THOUGHT THAT PETRONAS HAD PULLED OUT BUT WAS READING THIS ARTICAL ABOUT BUILDING THE NEW PLANT. They are talking how many men they need to hirer. http://www.bnn.ca/News/2014/12/10/Petronas-to-hire-hundreds-of-skilled-foreign-workers-for-BC-LNG-project.aspx

Great editorial. Without LNG, the whole Province is in trouble, as traditional market for natural gas is disappearing. Exports to US are down 60% because of expanded shale gas there. Get with the program BC, or start to figure out which government programs must be eliminated!

while we may not see any profits flowing from the exports of LNG for at least 5 – 15 years, let’s not get caught with our pants down this time. Ben is right, those plants need to be built so that when the door of opportunity knocks, we’ll be ready. In the meantime, construction jobs will be created.

Are we going to get value for the resource, or are we going to give away resources to
Line the pockets of foreign state owned enterprises? Are we going to charge for the vast quantities of fresh water used by frackers? Natural gas has a low energy density, the energy spent to cool and compress are huge and the revenue produced seems to be diminishing daily . It is a fuel best used close to the source. Let’s utilize it for the good of the province, create a natural gas economy in BC.

In the end the market will dictate and it will be surprising if any Of these plants get built.
We are energy rich.
A plant or two would be great for the northwest, but a NG economy is what this province needs.
Let’s not sell the farm.

I’m not sure it’s accurate to say that we, the people or the Province of BC, are dragging our heels on LNG; in fact the proponents don’t think it would be economic to export LNG. A few months ago Kitimat LNG, then the BG group, and just last week Petronas have all realized that they can’t recommend proceeding to their shareholders at this time. The gov’t of BC has done what it can to establish a tax/royalty regime that favours development of LNG.

Arguably LNG hype was all about winning the 2013 provincial election and had little basis in reality.

The recent William decision on aboriginal title has cast a shadow of uncertainty over any new resource development on Crown land in BC; again outside the ability of BC to resolve in the short term.
CL

I have a feeling that the majority of BC folk support LNG. Special interest groups hold it down while the government placates to them. It is certainly important to consider the environmental impacts of such projects we need to get real about the important of moving forward.

Somehow I doubt these will ever be a reality, I mean we kibosh wind farms! Will the evils of fossil fuel development ever be an acceptable industry in Northern BC, LNG or not?

I think we have been out flanked by Russia on the LNG market. Russia has a solid $400 billion dollar gas deal with China, and then recently another $350 billion dollar deal. Apparently this will represent a fifth of China’s long term needs on the assumption of China’s continued pace of growth (but with signs China is heading for a massive correction). China won’t need BC LNG anymore.

Just a couple of days ago NATO ally Turkey announced an LNG venture with Russia as well that will bring Russian natural gas by pipeline to Turkish ports for export to Europe and beyond. This is seen as Turkey moving away from the EU and America and into a strategic alliance with Russia, who in turn recently canceled (Russia) its southern stream pipeline through Ukraine and Southern Europe. Turkey’s deal with Russia then also nixes their involvement with western sources for a pipeline from the Persian Gulf through Turkey to Europe. Meanwhile Italy only a week ago signed a massive LNG contract with Israel for access to the disputed gas fields off the Israeli coast.

That leave Japan and South Korea as potential client states, but even then Russia is moving quickly on those markets as well. I suspect when all is said and done we might have a couple of LNG plants, and in the long run that would probably be best for a balanced long term use of the resource.

Excellent editorial, Ben. Slowly but surely, the vocal minority, special interest groups, and the government itself are causing this opportunity to slip away. As we drag our heels, other players pass us, like Russia has done. There is still opportunity out there, but the window is closing rapidly.

Oh No ! Little Hamish is going to grow old with a provincial debt. Who’d a thunk.

LOL….Ben called them tar-sands. Wait til Seamut wakes up.

Ben you need to think long and hard at the effects of shale gas production before you start influencing the public on economic stimulus. FRACKING IS DANGEROUS. It WILL destroy the environment and poison our water supply. If you think I am a anti pipeline hippy I am not. I have 15 yrs experience drilling holes in Mother Earth all over the foothills areas of alberta from Rocky Mountain house to dawson creek. I have seen the destruction of lakes creeks and wetland. There is NO solution to the waste that is created. No body knows this because you don’t see first hand. You only know what your told. Well now is the time to start listening. FRACKING WILL CAUSE IRREVERSIBLE DAMAGE TO THE WATER TABLE. I have seen it. People in rural Areas of the peace have already starting to truck water to there homes. Is that not a problem to you?? The damage is already occurred when peoples wells are ruined. People in shale gas rich rural alberta have trucking water to there homes for years. They have not used well water for human consumption for years. Drink bottled water. If any of you readers spend time in the peace or rural Alberta I challege you to look around for pick up trucks on the local highways with big green or blue or white tanks in the back.! That is drinking water for there homes picked up from the town water supply.

I am not against gas. I enjoy a warm house in the winter. I am against the lack money spent to come up with a way to deal with the damage and the waste water. I am against the way these companies keep the population numb of knowledge. But oil and gas companies are really good at lining to pockets of the voices. You people need to get your heads out of the sand. If they can send a robot to Mars and back I think we must be able to come up with a solution.

Mos.

Without LNG Christy Clark’s government is in trouble.

Unless it can dream up some replacement mega-projects to bring on more inflation to promote as prosperity.

That shouldn’t be too hard. They’re well-experienced at doing that. Site C, another Olympic Games, perhaps? Maybe a World’s Fair?

I think govsux has pretty well nailed it in his comments above.

Why do we continually struggle to sell our products into global markets cheaper than anybody else, even when those markets are already saturated with the same products, when the cost of doing so means we’re only going to have to pay more for those same products here? Where is there any advantage? Do we feel better when we’re working our way into a deeper financial poverty in the midst of a growing physical plenty? Doesn’t anyone see the contradiction in ‘produce more’ but ‘consume less’ as the ticket to our material well-being?

People often say that the BC Liberal Party is just the old BC Social Credit Party under a different moniker. Many former so-called ‘Socreds’ are the same people now that are so-called ‘Liberals’.

But even though we might have to go back quite aways to find it, there WAS once a very fundamental difference in philosophy between those two groups.

When WAC Bennett presided over the massive hydro-electric dam developments of the 1960’s it was so WE, all of us as British Columbians, could have low-cost electric power then, and for years into the future.

That was using one of our great natural advantages for our own benefit here, in priority to those outside of BC. That made sense. After all, didn’t our forefathers first come to this province to have life more abundant materially than wherever they came from? Why would any of them endure the hardships and dangers of travel in those days if they were just coming to a place where they’d have to pay as much or more for anything here than the cost of those same things where they were? And that would be all that was in store for them, and their descendents, for ever and ever?

We, in this Province, are situated in one of the few jurisdictions in all the world that could be virtually internally self-sufficient. No other province in Canada can claim that. Most of the world’s countries of comparable area could not claim that. Now I’m not suggesting for one moment that it would be sensible for us to try to internally provide everything we need or desire to consume here. We’d be foolish, in my view, to try. But for anyone to ever harbor the notion that we HAVE to import some other country’s ‘money’ to live, that we’d all just fold up and die if we couldn’t capture some global market for something somewhere, is absolute lunacy. The kind that pervades the BC Liberal Party of today, no matter who makes it up.

@socredible – as your name states the old Socreds are not the Liberals, just take a peek at the anti-HST crowd led by an ex-Socred leader Vanderzalm

There are already two export facilities under construction in Kitimat, they just need a pipeline which we are real good at stalling

PS socerdible – “We, in this Province, are situated in one of the few jurisdictions in all the world that could be virtually internally self-sufficient. No other province in Canada can claim that” except for Alberta and Ontario and Saskatchewan… and…

“Alberta and Ontario and Saskatchewan… and” .. last I saw they didn’t have a coastline or access to any ports? Did I miss something?

I think slinky, was socredible means, is technically BC can produce everything required for human existence, without ever having to import anything. If we wanted to, we could use our natural gas to run greenhouses in the north to produce many of the fruits and vegetables we import from Mexico and the US, it’s just not efficient to do it that way. It’s better to trade something we have they need, for something they need/want, that we have. We pretty much have everything here, so why this rush to export valuable resources at a deep discount. One day, the Americans will run out again, it’s guaranteed, and we’ll be sitting with the same billions of units of natural gas, and sell it in the future at a higher price.

If the world is so awash in NG, why are we still using oil to generate power, run vehicles, ships, trucks, etc. Makes no sense to continue to hunt for one product when apparently another one that can do virtually the same thing is practically everywhere.

@mos, fracking has been going on for 50+ years. It is a highly regulated activity and happens thousands of feet below the water table. Spreading alarmist anecdotes does nothing but scare people and contribute to the heel dragging we’re currently observing.

Huh and ski51 – so does Alberta and Sask – Sask may need power but they have natural gas too to generate if they wish plus both have the fields to produce the food for their population which we kind of lack. Last time I checked if you wanted to be “self sufficient” you don’t need ports as you don’t need to import anything and have no need to export either. Plus Sask also has uranium so they could blow us up

govsux: “It is a fuel best used close to the source. Let’s utilize it for the good of the province, create a natural gas economy in BC.”

That’s a great thought… if we lived in a bubble. However, we don’t. We depend on trade to push the economy forward.

LNG in BC should be used to promote industry and produce local jobs. There is no need to export this product at this time.

We could as noted above produce fruit and vegetables and other products with cheap LNG, and export these products. We should be promoting the use of LNG for electricity, and for cheap heating in all the communities in the Province.

Exporting LNG is a short term solution to a long term problem, which is to create employment.

Some examples of LNG employment after construction of the plants.

Darwin LNG in Australia (3.2 Million tons per annum) Projected 120 permanent jobs.

Snohvit LNG in Norway (4.1 mtpa) 180 jobs 70 of these jobs involve maintenance and clerical work.

Atlantic LNG in Trinidad/Tobago increased employment from 120 in 1999 for its first train (3 mtpa) to 600 jobs with 4 trains for a total of (14.8 mtpa)

Kitimat LNG is projecting 100-200 permanent jobs.

LNG Canada Kitimat 400-800 jobs to created. ***Notice the huge gaps in the projections**

So not that many jobs produced from these LNG Plants after construction, and most of the high paid ones require skilled workers, which we do not have in this Country at this time.

The LNG gas projects as proposed by the Liberals are basically a sell out of our natural resources. Its time we used this product to promote jobs in BC, and increase our exports of finished products, and food. That’s where the long term jobs are, and that’s where we should be concentrating our energies.

Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2014 @ 9:47 AM by Huh
“If the world is so awash in NG, why are we still using oil to generate power, run vehicles, ships, trucks, etc”

We don’t actually use “oil” to generate electricity on any large scale here in BC except maybe on work camp sites and reserves that run diesel generators but it is called energy for export purposes.
http://www.bchydro.com/energy-in-bc/our_system/generation/our_facilities.html

I used to have a pickup that ran on Natural Gas, would go to Vanderhoof on 4 tanks that filled half the box and only one place to fill it on first avenue. Not exactly efficient and safe with the pressures involved (couldn’t imagine it in an accident), for taxis that only run around town and can fill up a lot no problem, fill your trunk with tanks. Natural gas (LNG) tankers actually use some for fuel, others too costly to implement as they would need LNG storage to vent off and collect fuel to burn, never mind keeping the LNG cool enough. You cant really run a car on LNG but you can run it on natural gas – same as your furnace and fireplace in your home. We don’t have electric cars by the millions yet either, kind of a niche market

Seamut has never had the “stuff” in his hands.. It’s tar.. That is why they use steam to separate it..oil could be separated with just hot water.. A lot cheaper than steam.. Is ugly crap

Pval what’s your issue? Did you used to get beat up in the school yard. Technically tar is man made and those that use the term tar sands generally have a missinformed bias against the oil sands.

Seems Mos posted a lot of missinfomation about trucking in water. That area has had water issues before oil and gas exploration. Since a lot of people get water trucked in at Pineview I guess their must be oil and gas exploration in the area. Oh I also question his knowledge of fracturing.

Palopu: “There is no need to export this product at this time.”

With the foot dragging and navel gazing going on, it’s looking more and more like you will get your wish, Palopu… much to everyone’s detriment.

seamut: “Seems Mos posted a lot of missinfomation about trucking in water. That area has had water issues before oil and gas exploration. Since a lot of people get water trucked in at Pineview I guess their must be oil and gas exploration in the area. Oh I also question his knowledge of fracturing.”

Very true. It’s those kinds of misleading posts that have got everybody stuck in analysis paralysis.

Slinky, I’m proud to say I was a part of that anti-HST crowd led by former Socred Premier Vander Zalm.

Though I was never a Zalmoid, any more than he was ever a genuine Socred, he did do us all a great service in overturning that stupid tax.

Just as he’d previously saved the bacon of the BC Social Credit Party in 1986. If any of the other then contenders for its leadership had got the job, after Bill Bennett’s disastrous experiment with ‘austerity’, we’d have had an NDP government four years faster than we did. And with a guy even more hopeless than Mike Harcourt at the head of it.

Vander Zalm, by the way, was a former BC Liberal Party candidate who couldn’t ever get anywhere provincially under that then still badly tainted moniker.

So in the early ’70’s, along with most of the rest of the then BC Liberal caucus, (all from the Greater Vancouver region, btw), they coalesced with the BC Social Credit League, to become the BC Social Credit Party, simply because ‘Social Credit’ was still a much more marketable ‘label of convenience’ than ‘Liberal’ was at that time.

Such was also deemed necessary to rid ourselves of the disaster that was the Dave Barrett NDP, even though with Barrett’s ineptitude that likely wouldn’t have been the case.

It might be remembered, though it probably won’t be, that Barrett doubled industrial hydro-electricity rates soon after taking office. Increasing the cost of everything here that involved the use of electricity.

He needed the dough, he said, to pay for ‘government programs’. No one seemed to ask then, as very few seem to ask now, why if OUR resources were priced to US here in BC at a level our incomes could afford, why we’d even need ‘government programs’. I’m sure from reading some of the comments of the BC Liberal supporters above this though has never entered their minds. Too bad, because without it they’re going to find themselves out of office, though not to worry, the NDP’s policy is really exactly the same ~ higher prices for everything ~ only the method of its application is different.

“”Alberta and Ontario and Saskatchewan… and” .. last I saw they didn’t have a coastline or access to any ports? Did I miss something?”

=====================================

In the case of Ontario, you missed the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway . . .

“The LNG gas projects as proposed by the Liberals are basically a sell out of our natural resources. Its time we used this product to promote jobs in BC, and increase our exports of finished products, and food. That’s where the long term jobs are, and that’s where we should be concentrating our energies.”

=====================================

I would tend to agree with you Palopu. While I don’t have an issue with the exporting of our natural resources per se, I think we should focus on using them to our full domestic advantage first. If there are enough reserves to do both over a long planning horizon, great.

“In the case of Ontario, you missed the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway ” .. no I didn’t, I don’t consider river access the same as a coastline. Ontario is landlocked anyway you slice it. Besides I would associate Quebec with the St Lawrence seaway before Ontario. Lakes are lakes, they are not the ocean. Hudsons Bay would be a better argument for Ontario than the seaway.

“Ontario is landlocked anyway you slice it”

=====================================

I’ll remember that the next time I see those boats from the eastern seaboard docked downtown or fishing beside me on a local river, LOL.

The freeze-up of the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence Seaway puts Ontario in a worse spot than European Russia would be in if it didn’t have St. Petersburg, (or whatever they call it nowadays) as an ice-free port. Other than Churchill, Manitoba, I’m not aware of any other ports on Hudson’s Bay, and even it’s seasonal, still, so-called global warming notwithstanding.

In any case, none of the other Provinces, and few other countries of comparable area, have the variety of natural resources and natural advantages in utilising them that BC has. Ontario, despite its considerable mineral wealth, is woefully deficient in ‘energy’ resources, although nuclear is an option for them since uranium is found there. And can they, or any other province grow the variety of crops we can here in BC in the same abundance? Can they replace the massive forest resources they once had, those great white pine forests that they now seem to have reduced to poorer hardwood and scrubbier scrub in softwoods as time goes on?

Alberta and Saskatchewan both have lots of ‘energy’ resources, but the other mineral wealth of both pales in comparison to BC’s. We alone have the potential for a full scale iron and steel industry, were one such ever warranted. The resources for that have been known since before World War One.

We abound in energy, coal, oil, (indications of deposits of oil offshore, and elsewhere other than the northeast, have also been known for years), natural gas, hydro-electric, geo-thermal, (if we ever chose to develop it like New Zealand or Iceland has), and then all the token ‘green’ sources, too, like wind, solar, tidal, wood pellets, etc. We’re not like Alberta ~ Bolivia north with dirty oil a more volatile (price-wise) substitute for tin. We can export and import by sea. Our harbors aren’t ice-bound at any time of the year. Nor are we dependent on the continued goodwill of some neighboring jurisdiction with a seaport to facilitate our trade internationally.

In the late 1960’s, when WAC Bennett was still Premier and Trudeau the elder PM in Ottawa, there was a latent but rising separatist sentiment here. Many British Columbians were aghast at the way Trudeau was handling the economy, and just what his aims were for us.

The Vancouver Sun did a study on what would be the economic effects on BC if we were to become an independent Dominion. As I recall, they found that it would take at least three years under a normal ‘worst case’ scenario, (assuming the parting was amicable ~ no sanctions, or other attempts at ‘economic warfare’ against us by Ottawa), before there would be any negative effects on our then standard of living.

And not much likelihood even then they’d last long. WAC Bennett was not a separatist, however, nor am I. But he did believe, correctly in my opinion, that any successful nation, if that’s what Canada strives to be, should be built up from the bottom, not down from the top.

That the greater economic strength of its parts works to add strength to the whole. In this, he was at logger-heads with Trudeau, who wanted more of us totally dependent on ‘government programs’ for our daily bread. Now delve into this to any degree and you should quickly notice that the key to building a strong province and a strong country is to try to make all the goods and service WE CONSUME as individuals MORE AFFORDABLE to US as individuals. That’s what Waccy Bennett tried to do, first and foremost. That’s not what Trudeau tried to do, nor the NDP federally or provincially, nor the BC Liberal Party, past or present.