I’m not familiar with the specific story you describe Ben, but I think it’s an outlier. There are thousands upon thousands of people in the country who do indeed move around for work, for a lifestyle change and for other reasons. Heck, there are a number of regular posters on O250 who have done just that. Ironically enough, we sometimes catch flack when it is raised (the whole “don’t let the door hit you on the back side” stuff). But that’s another discussion . . .

Every single generation had people who didn’t live up to the social norm of the time, including yours. These social norms and cultures change over time. You may think that the past was “right” and what’s going on right now is “wrong”, but it is what it is. There were things about the past that were terrible that have improved (racism, women’s rights, etc.) and there are things that may be worse. How many people can drop out of school at grade 10 and find a job that will support a family of 4 these days?

Times change. Overall, I think society has improved over time. Our life expectancy is greater, our standard of living is higher, we are a more diverse country and people have the proverbial world at their doorstep. Are there some that will leech off of the system and take advantage of what has been built? Of course. There always has been people like that and there always will be.

Overall though, when I see the kids on the bus going to school everyday, or the volunteers who are out there feeding soup to homeless people on a cold night, or when I talk to people who have moved here from all around the country and hear about their goals and desires, I think it’s pretty safe to say that we’re going to be fine.

The country isn’t going down the tubes, it’s in good hands. It is changing though and the generation of today will influence that, just like you did in your days. While it may be uncomfortable, different isn’t always bad ;)

The basis for their entitlement is that they are citizens and if we don’t step up for those that for what ever unfortune circumstance can’t survive on their own, then we will end up with social unrest that will impact everyone from the desperation.

Its not as simple as go north if you are homeless. That is part of the problem… they get here and then what, we feed them? Anyone with an idea to go north needs to secure that employment first; because most all anyone that hires in the north requires certificates, and experience, and some kind of educational orientation as to what is going on.

More and more we witness the growing divide in society between those that work and those that don’t. I would say we have the displaced at the bottom of society, but we also have the top who live off of growing equity in financial and real estate assets… all the people doing the work are a smaller and smaller percentage, and yet working for a smaller and smaller share of the pie.

Money is created every day through things like quantitative easing by central banks, the issuing of new loans by the local credit union, and through fractional banking is inflationary on the money supply. Most all of the new money created benefits those at the top of society, and yet for society to work it needs everyone from the street cleaners, and the hotel maids, the long term care givers, plumbers, electricians, stay at home moms and home makers… they all have a role to play in making the world go around no matter how we look down on their method that guides them to happiness.

It starts out young if we want to change the people that make up society, but in the meantime I think so long as we have a fiat currency, and technology displacing the need for workers, and a financial sector that is grossly obscuring the rewards for labor in industry… then why not ballence that with social credit issued that inflates the currency of a country as per the interest owed on prime loans that is divided by the population for a per capita monthly social credit payment per individual Canadian citizen… which should then be enough to negate any further need for social programs involving financial support through taxation.

Those that work wouldn’t have to support those that don’t, and the new currency inflation (as there always is in our system) would be distributed evenly across all social classes.

IMHO It would be better then what we have today… more dignity and humane and befitting of a society of this day and age.

Ben, the young couple are living in a tent in Abbotsford during winter. However awful that might be, it is better to them than what they were doing before. Having someone trash their tent and belongings and doing $400 of damage is pointless and heartless. Without knowing more (are there mental health problems?), there must be a better way to deal with the homeless in Abbotsford than destroying their tents or pouring manure onto their campsites. I thought Abbotsford was part of BC’s bible belt. Seems like pretty un-Christian behaviour to me.

Finding work is not as easy as it was when you were young. In its infinite wisdom, the Harper government has allowed over 338,000 temporary foreign workers into Canada, making getting even entry level jobs a challenge, and keeping wages low. At minimum wage, if only one of them were able to find a job, they would have the princely sum of $600 to live on for a month after renting an apartment for $700. If they had no money to pay for a damage deposit, a tent might be their only option.

Maybe instead of trying to put the bums rush on homeless people, we should acknowledge that their situation is the best we are willing to do for our disenfranchised citizens. Maybe the Harper government in its infinite kindness could look into the possibility of setting up organized campsites for the homeless. Hey, they will even purchase their own tents! Win/win for everyone!

I had two trade Red Seals by the time i was 32. Why? because didn’t want to be poor anymore like when i was a kid growing up in eastern Canada. When i try to tell the 30 and 40 year olds today about contining education/upgrading ,they look at me like i am a two Red Seal idiot, with a ”why look” on there face[s].As a life-time learner there is no such thing as too much knowledge and my dilemma now is ,at 60 odd years old, what learning direction do i take ????

Yes Abbotsford is the Bible Belt , the tents are set up across the street from MCC who except donations to help people in other countries , however I do believe that Charity begins at home , Christianity does not prevaile here, then again it is not Harpers problem so much as our own great premier Crusty Clark and where is Shirley Bond when she is needed …..Oh just a minute that would be at a photo shoot.

Posted on Thursday, March 5, 2015 @ 6:19 AM by frank2
I had two trade Red Seals by the time i was 32. Why? because didn’t want to be poor anymore like when i was a kid growing up in eastern Canada. When i try to tell the 30 and 40 year olds today about contining education/upgrading ,they look at me like i am a two Red Seal idiot, with a ”why look” on there face[s].As a life-time learner there is no such thing as too much knowledge and my dilemma now is ,at 60 odd years old, what learning direction do i take ????

Same standards getting those red seals now frank? Don’t think so.

Pretty well.The way to fit pipe or plumb a house or run electrical wires haven’t change in 50 years. Some new ways of doing it have and the codes have changed some ,but really not much have changed, just the people.

There is a difference between CAN’T and WON’T. I think many times we are too worried about being politically correct to question which is it.

Thank you all, I read O250 first and went thru the comments. Initially as I started, reading O250 dialogue, I figured there would be a lot high fiving. But I found it more pleasing to read the comments. Yes, the world is not the same, and as we get older, the next generation has to run the place. As we get longer in the tooth, we should be backing down and step aside for the next group to run the show.

In my opinion, it doesn’t look too bad. The guys in the field working all have good work ethics. So they will do fine.

Remember when we were teenagers, we couldn’t wait to finish high school to take on the world and make money. Our graduation present was a suitcase. Today, the kids are hanging around when they are still in their mid twenties. Why, because we never taught them to be workers. We gave them everything they wanted, they never learned that they too can work for it. But eventually they will learn, the world is cruel, and mama and papa just have to kick them out.

Two journeyman tickets frank, so you felt entitled to take a ticket away from someone else.. A bit greedy don’t you think?

“Maybe the Harper government in its infinite kindness could look into the possibility of setting up organized campsites for the homeless.”

Has any NDP government ever done that?

Herbster, instead of blaming this government for this and that government for that, and so forth, I think it would be more helpful if instead of playing the blame game pointing fingers you would walk across the street and offer those who set up their tent, breaking a by-law, the option of setting it up in your own backyard!

Problem solved!

You don’t have to take up a class room seat to write or challenge an exam you need to prove the time. oh want to buy one!!!!

And I was told by a old wiseman ,years ago. He said that “the two best motivators of success were pain and greed” I have both.

No thanks, can’t afford the pay cut.

It was way easier back then to get your tickets, now you must attend schooling and the interprovincial exams are harder as well

Yes I have heard it was 20 feet of snow and up hill both ways in those days ;-)

Kidding aside I think we need to do a better job teaching work ethic and other important life skills. I personally believe good work ethic will do more for you in life than any form of higher education. We focus too much these days on school smart and not enough on life smart. There needs to be a beter balance between the two.

Prince George

My use of the phrase “Harper governments infinite kindness” should have given you a clue that I was being ironic. I don’t believe that giving people a place to pitch a tent is really a suitable solution, although you evidently do, and defend the Harpers government right to not even do that!

I really don’t know where to start with you Conservatives, that care so little for your fellow man, and are willing to do even less. I guess thank God that Harper will soon be out of power, and we can get a real human being in the PMO.

I understand .Red Seals aren’t pussies

There was no apology from the mayor when the City of Prince George sent the RCMP to the local campground to evict tree planters who overstayed their visit. This was in the seventies when thousands of college and university students flocked to the city every year to earn their tuition fees rehabilitating our logged forests.

But the eviction left resentment in many campers who vowed never to visit Prince George again once they finished their education and established themselves in society.

The two questions on the exam to challenge a plumbing red seal ticket.

1. What runs down hill? S_ _ _

2. Payday is on what day? Fri_ _ _

;-P

I think we should send the RCMP to roust those senior citizens that park their RV’s illegally at Walmart. All those trailers are certainly an eyesore and a where do those grayhairs get off parking for free? Where did they get the idea that they are entitled to a free ride? Frogmarch them down to the hoosegow where they can learn what it means to be a responsible citizen!

Sparrow… lol..this is my fav

What do you say to a person with a IQ of 9

nice weld :)

All tradesman are needed, they perform needed work for sure. Its to bad there have been so many cuts throughout the years to help with apprenticeships funding. Its one of the main reasons there are so many shortages in all trades right now.

Its to bad governments at all levels live in the reactive mood.. waiting for the problem to arise before they take any action.. even though they have been told for many years about the shortage in trades they still cut millions then toss out the odd crumb to say…hey look.. we care.. even though we arent as stupid as they take us for.

Why do they have a sense of entitlement? Geez, where do I start?
When I was growing up I was constantly reminded that life isn’t fair, you reap what you sow, you work for what you get, etc etc etc. All good and reasonable words to live by. Then child psychologists came into the picture at started telling parent that never say the word “NO” to your child because that is a negative word and it will affect their social skills later in life. Then they proceeded to tell parents and children that there is no such thing as “Losing” when it comes to competing with other children. There are no winners or losers, everybody is a winner. Problem is, that in real life, there really ARE winners and losers. Then they lawyers/social workers/teachers got involved and told every child that they had “rights” but failed to say those “rights” also came along with responsibility. Problem is, the last two generations want kids to believe they are grownups from the time they can walk and talk. Now they start them in school as early as 3 years old and they wonder why kids have no respect for mommy and daddy, when someone else basically raises their kid for them and keeps telling them it is wrong when your parents punish you at home for acting out. We have been seeing the affects of that system for a few years now, and it will only get worse until children are allowed to be children again and grow up in a normal family that has skins thicker than onion peels, and don’t have to walk around their kids as if on cornflakes for fear they start a tantrum.

“Somewhere in my mind we have lost the values that made Canada such a great country”. I think that it is just that Ben, in your mind, which as your opinion you are totally entitled to. I mostly disagree with you however. Having the benefit of hindsight in my life now I can say today’s youth & younger workers are not much different from what I encountered when I was a young(er) man. Looking back to my teens & 20’s the sense of entitlement & attitudes I encountered among some of my older collegues was appalling. This was tempered however by the attitudes that other, more sensible, associates portrayed. Working & associating with younger people now, I see roughly the same proportion of laziness & sense of entitlement to honest, hard workers as was then. In other words from what I see human nature has not changed much. With the advent of social media & instantaneous interaction I think that the examples of bad apples just stands out more.
The only trait that is disturbing to me is the want of instant gratification that most of our entire society exhibits. Of that we cannot blame our youth & younger people, we can only look on the mirror for the blame.

Your right Bent “lawyers/social workers/teachers” are often one track thinkers. I have a friend in each group and each one at some point in time has told me that if your kid wants to be a success in life they need to get high grades in school.

I personally think thats horse crap. Different minds work different ways. You can be a hard working person with a high IQ and still have a hard time in school but go on to be succesfull in life. You can also be on the principals list go on to become an MBA and be a train wreck.

There are not enough parents who teach there kids how to work hard and how to keep moving forward when life gives you lemons.

Herbster,

don’t jump to mistaken conclusions although you are of course free
to do just that!

First of all I am not a conservative! Secondly, please refrain from applying irony and sarcasm to real life situations which call for real life solutions!

You try to be insulting with your reply, insinuating that I condone
the mistreatment of people who need help! All to the contrary I recommended that those who conveniently avoid doing their part by blaming everything on government or another start by taking action, such as I wrote about!

I support various charities and I am actively engaged in supporting any efforts which will ultimately result in better, more caring and more respectful government.

Irony and sarcasm are a waste of time! Say bravely what is on your mind and what your own real solutions are!

The solutions should be self evident. If people are living in tents in the middle of winter, then we should look at why. In all the press coverage of this incident, no one has seemed to look into why these people cannot find a decent place to live. Can they not find a job? Are they mentally ill? Whatever their story, destroying whatever humble shelter they might have will not improve the situation. Whoever did that is one step away from the Halifax fools that doused the homeless man with gas and set him alight.

Abbotsford has already tried dumping manure on the homeless campground. Obviously that didn’t work. Maybe building a homeless shelter might be the Christian thing to do? How about we raise the minimum wage to a living wage, so people who can work could afford proper housing. And maybe we don’t actually need 338,000 temporary workers in Canada, distorting the labour market and lowering wages.

As a 25 year old single father of a beautiful little girl I find it so offensive that SOME of the people in the generations before me talk down so much to my generation. I work in an Industry where I deal with a lot of contractors and old school guys who have been around for years and hear this constantly. Now I have to hear it where I go for my local news? I worked small jobs on weekends and whenever I could during highschool. And the day after I graduated I started my first full time job and have not stopped working since, never on EI or Medical. I find it offensive to hear so much bashing that we are the “entitled” generation. I have worked for everything I have and feel no sense of entitlement. I have no doubt that there are people who in my generation feel self entitled, but have there not always been spoiled, silver spoon in their mouth self entitled humans since currency has been around? ITs coimpletely unfair to attack my generation and just another classic example of the last generation picking on the new one. You didn’t have a tv? you didn’t have this or that? Well i’m sure you did have things that generations before you didn’t have? The world changes and advances, but I will not be the old man that bashes my daughters generation for being different. Its always nice for me to hear some of the older generation defend us when this comes up once and awhile and let us know that not everyone thinks that way and some people understand that its not a new thing that the younger generation gets bashed. But thats just one young mans opinion…

“No Camping” it says so.

Herbster, you make some good points! Trying to make a living and afford proper housing is a challenge in some areas of this province even with a higher minimum wage. The answer is that people have little choice but move to where the jobs are and where living is more affordable. When one is young it is much easier.

P Val said: “It was way easier back then to get your tickets, now you must attend schooling and the interprovincial exams are harder as well”

I call b.s. on that P Val. Not easy then, not easy now, I assume.

metalman.

Go ahead metalman. Call bs all you want. You are wrong, but go ahead.

I never said it was easy btw..

Here is an old saying, “Criticize no man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.” Homelessness I s asocial problem and no one cares about it. Some of the people are sick and need medical attention and some have been discouraged and is there any wonder.

When the news is blaring of the number of billionaires in our society by ripping off the middle class. In the USA they are building one bedroom homes for the homeless . Their philosophy is, “Housing First”. And they tell us it is getting the homeless off the street.

And have the young changed that much since we were younger. I remember working on a project in the early 70’s with an apprentice. We were accommodated in a motel. On his days off the apprentice would go to Vancouver where he lived. On his last trip home he brought back a small suitcase of marijuana. I say last because the RCMP picked him up for drug trafficking. So what else is new .
Cheers

Retired. You know what’s new, the weed is way better now…lol

“What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.” Except that now we have social media and O250. Shame on you Ben.

Herb says

” I really don’t know where to start with you Conservatives, that care so little for your fellow man, and are willing to do even less. I guess thank God that Harper will soon be out of power, and we can get a real human being in the PMO.”

So when Harper wins again, will you disapear like Mattyc after the Liberal win? Please…

This Country over the past 20/30 years has gone to hell in a hand basket. There are so many things wrong, one doesn’t know where to start. In the old days, people in this Country had squatters rights so that if they did not have a place to live they could throw up a shack, or a tent on Government property and live there. This was taken away. We also have the option of homesteading a piece of property doing upgrades on it, and over time own it. This was taken away.

The courts have ruled that people to-day have the right to put up tents on public property (Parks, etc) to spend the night, but must take them down during the day.

We have plenty of places where people can stay in Prince George, however some of these places require them to leave during the day, and return at night. There are a number of people who prefer to sleep/urinate/and defecate in the alleys of this City. I doubt if most of the posters on this site are aware of this, let alone tried to do something about it.

This towns charitable organizations feed over 140 people per day, 7 days per week, and guess what. Some people who eat in these places on a regular basis, complain about the quality of the food.

So we have plenty of problems, and I doubt that Herbsters criticism of Harper will solve them.

Not everyone with or without an education is capable of working, not everyone is healthy.

The biggest problem facing this Country to-day, is Big Government, Big Unions, and Big Corporations. These three entities are dragging the Country down, so don’t blame Jane or Joe Citizen.

Dow7501

Unless Harper personally pays for a terrorist attack at the West Edmonton Mall, his chances are nonexistent in the next election. Duffy is about to spill his enormous gut, and even Conservatives will have a hard time stomaching the stench when it comes time to vote.

Read it and weep

http:**www.threehundredeight.com*

And if you are still a proud Conservative supporter, take a look at this link and see how the Conservative party is using the West Edmonton Mall threat as a fundraiser.

http:**www.thestar.com*news*canada*2015*03*05*conservative-party-nourishes-terror-threats-to-bolster-political-fortunes-tim-harper.html

I would agree that the Conservative party has hit a new low with this campaign, except that there are so many lows to compare it with.

Harper has his own agenda, and it’s runs by his religious beliefs..that right there should send him packing.

P Val you’re right, you did not say it was easy, rather, you said it was easier, point taken and I stand corrected.
Now, can you please explain HOW it was easier? Not sure what you mean, was it easier to become an apprentice?
35-40 years ago, the trade I apprenticed in was fairly demanding, it was an accomplishment to make an 80% average. It is probably every bit as demanding today.
metalman.

well with all the technology today it’s has kicked it up a notch or two. 40 years ago there was a welding machine, now you have tigs, pressure welding, many different rods to burn etc.

Blah blah blah you leftards. I get it you don’t like Harper. Saying his chance is nonexistent is just stupid. How else can you respond to such a statement. Keep reading the star, and stay in your fantasy world where you clearly belong Herb.

P val…what religious beliefs run Harpers agenda? Any examples or are you just parroting the lazy non thinking left.

Dow7501, read the news.. Will give you some insight into how he looks at things..

You said he had a religious agenda, lets get some examples if you got any.
Or is this a typical drive by smear. put up or shut up.

If you want to go head to head on currant events, i’m your guy, bring it.

I read Ben’s article and after finding myself agreeing whole heartedly, the next thought that entered my mind was wondering how long it would take for all of the bleeding hearts to make excuses for those that seem content to take a hand out, instead of a hand up!

Didn’t take long at all!!

I remember the Idol No More protests in Vancouver. The Mayor of Dawson Creek was in Vancouver at that time. From what I understand, he approached several of the “homeless” and “out of work” protestors and he gave them his business card. He told them “I’m the Mayor of Dawson Creek. Come to Dawson Creek and I guarantee that I’ll find you a job”!

Not a single unemployed, homeless protestor took him up on the offer!

Not surprising at all! But then why would it be? It’s easier to whine and complain, especially when there are so many bleeding hearts supporting poor choices, laziness and the lack of a work ethic!

Bla bla bla polical debate. Teaching your kids to work hard has nothing to do with politics but it is the answer to many of our problems. If you know how to work you adjust your style to still suceed with the political devil of the day.

But the current devil is just that and hes getting old.