What… there will really be a business using this… What will all those who where so negative about this say now… oh oh.

Congrates to Rosenau.

They will say . Diversification bad ! One trick pony town good ! Progessiveness bad ! Status quo good !

still dreaming about the big planes spiraling down form 30 000 feet and landing here…
but dream on!
one day you night get a couple of cessnas and an helicopter….

it is good for Rosenau Transport I suppose…

Rosenau Transport has been in Prince George for years. So they are basically moving their operation to a new warehouse at the Airport. This is no different than Purolater Courier moving their operation from the Ongman Road to the Beyers Warehouse on first Avenue, of Van Kam Freightways building a new warehouse or Bandstra Transport expanding their warehouse.

Rosenau being located in a warehouse at the Airport has nothing to do with air freight, or with planes landing in Prince George for refueling. In fact as warehouse go 25000 sq ft is about as small as you can get.

Average warehouses in Anchorage, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, for warehousing and distribution run from 200,000 to 400,000 sq ft. So don’t get your hopes up with this little operation.

Remember all the airport was shooting for was 5% of anchorages flights which equates to 3 cargo planes a day and the airport has signed with China air for tech stop contingent on fuel yard and cargo storage both of which have been met. Since 2009 there have been 31 flights in from various carriers assessing the airport and the needs of their planes and flight crews

It is something that I believe will eventually happen but I know all you negative types will find a way to tear the above statement apart because you are incapable of positive thinking so let it start

Right on Dearth

Dearth,
not going to say it will NEVER happen….
lets just say a lot of us will believe it when we actually see wheels down

only then will I will get excited….

Dearth. 31 Flights since 2009,. Hmmmm lets see that would be 5 flights a year (more or less) Perhaps you could give us the name of these carriers and confirm that they actually flew into Prince George.

In any event it doesn’t make a hell of a lot of difference. Three flights a day would empty the storage containers at the Airport on the first day, and after that they would have fuel trucks backed up all the way to Edmonton. (No jet fuel is produced in Pr George )

So as bcracer says lets wait and see when something actually happens.

To the narrow minded nay-sayers: Since the airport expansion, we now have more charter flights (some from Germany during tourist season, charter flights to Mexico in the winter). Boundary road connector has been built (helping give alternate route for dangerous goods and some heavy transport traffic. The choices now in scheduled flights out of PG is expanded. Now a very small step towards the expansion of air cargo possibilities has been taken.
I understand that there are just some people who can never be positive, and can only find meaning in their lives through constant negativity, and trying to force the rest of humanity to suffer their views.
My point to you is that YXS stands to become a viable, diverse airport. There is nothing substantial north of Kelowna for airports. Kamloops is as big as it can get, thanks to its terrain and location. PG has the airport in close access to rail and trucking. YXS has the room for development and sits at the junction for the 2 major highways in the north and Central part of the province.
Not sure how you view investing, but most of the notable sucessful investments take time. If anyone thought that by laying down a long airstrip we would become an overnight super-port, they were mistaken.
Whether or not you want it here, YXS has the potential to thrive. Little by little there is a growing momentum, not fast enough for some. I am certainly glad that some of you are not the leaders of our community, otherwise we would already have folded up shop and left the town to tumbleweeds when the forestry industry went through its downturn.
Keep up the constant whining and negativity though. Knowing that you are perpetually unhappy and wrong is what makes my day ;)

This development is an airport owned and operated warehouse. That is the topic. We are not dealing with other warehouses in PG or elsewhere.

Toronto Pearson is home to 1.2 million square feet of warehouse space,
torontopearson.com/en/press/toronto-pearson-fast-facts/#

Vancouver airport manages about 800,000sf. Both are primary Canadian hub airports.

Let us talk Edmonton. I would say it is one of several secondary hub airports in Canada

News from Edmonton, April 2015

BBE’s new warehouse is an anchor tenant in a 60,000-foot-building, built by the Edmonton International Airport in its FLEDGLING Cargo Village development. Two buildings, including the one housing BBE, have already been built at the village.

Edmonton-based trucking company Rosenau Transport’s new distribution warehouse opening in 2016, and more cargo and light industrial buildings are planned or under construction.

“You’re really seeing, from a patch of dirt three years ago, six cargo buildings in a very short time,” said Myron Keehn, the airport’s vice-president of commercial development.

That is the “talk” as well as action from Edmonton’s airport these days.

I would say at 25,000sf with one of the same tenants as Edmonton, and likely more to come as far as buildings go, we are on the right track for a city with a population of around 75,000 instead of 880,000.

It verges on the idiotic to compare apples to oranges. We are not a primary hub such as Toronto/Montreal and Vancouver. We are not a secondary hub such as Edmonton/Calgary and other cities similar in size.

Due to our remote location, however, we may be able to compete with the tertiary hubs, all those much larger cities, but cities too close to large metro areas to make air cargo more expensive than trucking to serve the more rural locations – Kamloops, Kelowna, Nanaimo, Saskatoon, Brandon, Windsor/Sarnia, London, Hamilton, Barrie, Kingston, Quebec City, Moncton, and more.

In fact, it may yet be shown that we can compete with the secondary hubs as well, but that depends on a number of things. There are many parameters at play – changes in aircraft ranges, changes in international market dynamics, changes in federal policies regarding free-trade zones, competition among airports, especially Edmonton when one looks at flights from Asia which bring cargo intended for the mid to eastern parts of the USA and even Canada. From Beijing, there is about a 200nm difference which can make quite a difference when one is looking at the limited ranges of the 777, 747, and similar freight planes of today.

Then there is Anchorage. The location is almost unbeatable since most of the traffic comes from China as well as Korea. It is half way to the remaining hubs in the lower 48. Hard to beat. Planes do not leave the country when they land in Anchorage and fly onward to the lower 48.

It will be interesting to see what happens. It took a long time to get here. What we are all finding out is that it takes more than a few thousand feet more of concrete runway to make this work. That was obvious to many. To me, what was not that obvious is how long it took to get to this point.

They have been whining about the expanded runway for years! It is an asset with great potential! Governments spend hundreds of millions on ferries (!), diverse military toys and other such things which sometimes end up very early on a scrap heap! One day the complaining will stop.

Dearth states; “It is something that I believe will eventually happen but I know all you negative types will find a way to tear the above statement apart because you are incapable of positive thinking so let it start.”

Its just that “positive thinking” can be so gosh darned expensive. The “if you build it they will come” line came from a fantasy movie called Field of Dreams. It doesn’t work that way in the real world, unless you are counting all the ghost Jet Cargo planes that are landing.

1. The charter flights to Mexico do not require an extended runway, nor would any charter flights from Germany.

2. Since when does Air Cargo have anything to do with rail or truck. Do you really believe that someone would rail in products, warehouse them, and then fly them out? Highly unlikely. You might rail containers to Centre Port, in Winnipeg, warehouse them in a free trade zone, and then truck them out. The fact that these products are going into a warehouse, should be your first hint that there is no rush involved. Because of the huge expense of Air Cargo you do not fly non rush items.

3. It was the Management of YXS that said this Airport Cargo Terminal/Fueling Station etc; would be up and running. Fact is they have been saying it over and over since 2009, however nothing has happened as yet.

4. YXS Management has a responsibility to let the people of Prince George know exactly what is happening with this this Air Cargo/Fueling project. Its been seven years and basically nothing has happened.

5. First we built the runway expansion for a cost of $35 Million dollars, then we purchased the fuel farm, because no one else would run it, for roughly $5 Million,. Now we are building a 25000sq ft $5 Million warehouse, because no private firm would build one.

So. Money spent to date approx. $45 Million dollars. YXS has debt somewhere in the area of $20 Million, and we have nothing to show for all this expenditure.

We need some explanations and we need it now.

Sophic Sage. Speaking of fantasy do you remember the TV Show Fantasy Island, where the little guy was in the Airport tower looking to the sky for an airplane. When it finally showed up, he ran to Scarla Manga yelling.

**The plane boss, the plane**.

I suggest we are all craning our necks looking to the sky for a plane, however all we see are those who fly over us to and from Anchorage Alaska, or on direct flights to China.

A lot of flights can now fly New York to China without stopping to refuel, which doesn’t bode well for us.

If in fact this Airport is going to be a prime business venture, then its time to give us the facts. No more of this next year, next year, bs.

gopg2015. Everything you state about warehouse and distribution and air cargo etc; was common knowledge when the Airport Authority decided to go down this road. They had no plans to build a warehouse, nor did they have any plans to be in the fuel distribution business. They got into this business because there were no private business’s that were prepared to take the financial risk. So, YXS is taking the risk with our money.

It would be interesting to see how much per square foot Rosenau is paying for this warehouse space and how it compares to other warehouse space in Prince George. One has to wonder considering that we have warehouses on First Avenue that have been for sale for a number of years with no takers. In addition we have the Canadian Freightways Warehouse on 22nd Ave. that has been for sale for a number of years. So Rosenau must be getting a pretty good deal to get them to move from their present location.

This is all smoke and mirrors as far as I can see.

“They had no plans to build a warehouse, nor did they have any plans to be in the fuel distribution business.”

Can you prove that they had no plans of how the expansion would go? Show us some of the early “plans” they had. With most plans like that one has to start first. All the hens will not hatch eggs at the same time. Looks to me that

Talk to the Board.
——————————–

“So Rosenau must be getting a pretty good deal to get them to move from their present location.”

Great, Palopu, you are starting to learn how the business of leasing commercial space works. In business, it is whatever it takes. You should have seen the deals Pine Centre had for its initial tenants. Also the ones Parkwood Place had. And then there are the ones that were put in place when the Scotia building decided to make over its building exteriors and interiors. Probably the same with the HSBC building. It is the way start-ups and refurbished space is “sold” to existing tenants and new tenants.

What kind of deals do you think they are getting in Edmonton, or any others who are leasing in a new space that EIA may be building.

Paying for tenant improvements would be a place I would start negotiation to move in, plus a lower /sm cost for the first five years. See where that would take me. Depends on how hungry each party is. It is business, after all.

Any other “new” revelations you would like to share about building and operating commercial space?

Palopu.. warehouses on 1st ave have access issues and no place practical to stockpile trailers. Old CF building on 22nd is a bulldozer project. That building is antiquated.
While I can agree that the runway extension has not yet been utilized for more than a handful of large enough aircraft which require that much airstrip…. at least it will handle the 777 which you will need for you and your inflated ego when you take off for the shagri-la which awaits your infinite wisdom!
Now seriously, we have witnessed larger wastes of tax dollars which stand no chance of returning the investment. At least with YXS there is a possibility (no hope according to some) of seeing a return on investment.
Now I am certain that many will waste vast amounts of time arguing how it is a lost cause etc etc. But big gains require taking chances, and I have yet to see any commercial airstrip get mothballed.

“A lot of flights can now fly New York to China without stopping to refuel, which doesn’t bode well for us.”

We have been talking cargo aircraft from the very beginning. The terminal does not have the capacity to handle the planes that carry more than the 120 or so people.

Boeing 777 freighter with a maximum payload of 103,000kg has a range of 4,900 nautical miles. That is 1,100 short of the distance from JFK to Incheon Korea which is a typical stop when flying West.

Boing 747-8F carries 134,200kg and flies 4,474 nm

Airbus A330-200F carries 70,000kg and flies 4,000 nm

The Antonov AN-225 is in a class all by itself with payload and range.

New York to Hong Kong direct flight using Boeing 777-200ER flies a distance of 7,014 nm

Longest flight shown is Dallas to Sydney using an Airbus A380-800 which flies 7,454 nm. Takes almost 17 hours without fresh air, enough room to sit, and basically not for people who get claustrophobia.

DO not confuse the big apple issue with big oranges.

“I have yet to see any commercial airstrip get mothballed.”

Mirabel comes to mind.

You should never put out a challenge like that. There have been quite a number, but mostly because they outgrew their usefulness.

Toronto almost made the same mistake with Pickering. Bought tons of land, then decided to expand Pearson instead.

Does Murray Krause only turn up for Pride related photos?

Start imagining a supply chain network which is interconnected by air, sea, land. Air is relegated to aircraft and airports. Sea is relegated to ships and sea ports. Land, however, has “ports” everywhere. Create a rail spur and sawmills and pulpmills become “ports”. Same with lanes off highways. If you do not have your own, rent a space in a warehouse.

All modes of shipping are in competition with each other. What was true yesterday, is not true today and what is true today may not be true tomorrow.

So here is the latest that is happening in the world of shipping logistics.

logisticsmgmt.com/view/too_much_of_a_good_thing_u.s._airport_real_estate_investors_thrive_tenants/airfreight

“With congestion issues and seaport gridlocks plaguing the transportation industry, air freight volumes are back on the rise. According to JLL’s annual Airport Outlook Report, global air cargo saw a 4.5 percent annual increase in 2014 and the forecast calls for 5 percent growth in 2015.

“This has created a flurry of leasing, building and investment in the distribution center real estate surrounding key U.S. airports. And as a result, rents are rising for tenants, while returns rise for savvy investors.”

“Most major companies can’t afford to count on just a few major ocean cargo gateways in the future,” he says. “This report indicates that air cargo options are gaining traction.”

It’s not just the big cities that act as intermodal gateways says JLL’s proprietary Airport Index: Dallas (DFW) and Indianapolis (IND), Tier II and Tier III markets feature multi-modal options that can help alleviate potential supply chain interruptions and are increasingly popular with logistics executives. With numerous sites available to house big-box development, construction at these two airports over the past five years has grown. For example, 12 million square feet of warehouse space has been developed just outside DFW and 13.7 million square feet surrounding Indianapolis airport.

Edmonton and PG are part of the trickle down effect. People stopped flying into Vancouver and taking a bus or train to Prince George a long time ago.

So Palopu said: “Three flights a day would empty the storage containers at the Airport on the first day, and after that they would have fuel trucks backed up all the way to Edmonton. (No jet fuel is produced in Pr George )”

Well, YVR imports all it’s fuel from the USA by road & rail and they seem to do just fine. I don’t think they have trucks backed up all the way to Seattle.

And you said “Since when does Air Cargo have anything to do with rail or truck”

So the huge Rail intermodal facility a couple miles from the Fed-Ex Air hub in Memphis is what? pure coincidence? cheap land? Right ….

Sorry to pick on you buddy but that took about 2 minutes of research to blow holes though your statements. Too easy.

Too much information gopg2015.

Writes someone who is guilty of the same.

Many learn to skim, or go to the next item if they are not interested. In fact, those who are really not interested do not even click onto this article. Ever notice how many articles have no comments?

“if you build it they will come” line came from a fantasy movie called Field of Dreams. It doesn’t work that way in the real world”

How many private buildings in PG have been built on speculation? Most houses are built that way. Most high rise buildings in PG have been built that way. Every hotel/motel has been built that way. Every shopping centre is built that way. Every airport in the world has been built that way.

A nice statement that has some people buying into it. Others understand the nonsensical statement.

“Speculation” is the same as gambling, nice to know this is what the past elected leaders of our city have been doing with our hard earned tax dollars; gambling with it.

Nine years and still no payoff, looks like “snake eyes” to me gopg2015.

Its nice to see that gopg2015 missed the point entirely.

The Airport Authority is NOT a private business. All the property is leased from the Federal Government, and all its improvements are financed by the payment of a Airport Improvement Fee, that is paid every time someone flys out of Prince George. The Fee started out at $5.00 in 2007 and is now $20.00. The Airport Improvement Fee’s are designated for Airport Improvements only and cannot be used for other purposes, such as salaries, etc; So they generally generate revenue from rental of buildings and space, and from landing and take off fee’s.

YXS is the only Airport Authority (according to them) that has built a warehouse on its on dollar, and they stated at the time they are going into uncharted waters.

So what we have here is a Federally owned facility, funded by the flying public, going into private business and competing with local business in the area. Some people are going to be very upset that they have to compete with a Government entity to stay in business.

As an example I am sure that the warehouse facility that presently houses Roseanu is not to happy about losing this business to the Airport.

The old saying **Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread** comes to mind when looking at whats happening at YXS.

In any event we will just have to wait and see what transpires.

If you want something to turn brown immediately, get the Government or a Government entity involved.

“The Airport Authority is NOT a private business”

And I say it is. The Feds have leased out their larger airports to an operator. The PG Airport Authority is an operator. Not much different than the operation services provided by private companies maintaining provincial highways.

gopg2015. Its obvious you know very little about Airport Authorities in Canada.(There are 26)

Lets look at the Board of Directors for YXS, and who appoints them.

City of Prince George (3)
Airport Authority (YXS) (4)
PG Chamber of Commerce (1)
Transport Canada (2)
Regional District FFG (1)
BC Government (1)

So there you have it. The board of directors hire the Ceo/Management/ etc;

There is not one iota of private money in the whole concept.