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October 28, 2017 2:42 am

Rezoning for New Subdivision OK, But with Concerns

Tuesday, September 1, 2015 @ 3:59 AM

brink subdivision

Areas in yellow and salmon colour are the proposed  new  areas for development

Prince George, B.C.- A new subdivision that will border on to North Nechako Road in Prince George, has been given the green light, but final reading won’t happen until two issues have been resolved to the satisfaction of  Administration.

The project requires a rezoning of the land from Agriculture Forestry to RS2 to allow for residential construction.   The plan calls for 54 single family home lots to be developed,( in yellow on  image above) and a future development of more than 50 townhouse units ( in salmon  colour  on image above).

The developer  expects the build out time to be about  one year  to put the services in place,  and four years for the homes to be  constructed.

Residents of neighbouring Edgewood Terrace have some concerns, not the least of which is traffic.  They presented a petition with 79 signatures and  several questions about  access and regress from the  planned subdivision. One by one, residents stepped forward to talk about traffic concerns,  about  narrow streets that are barely passable in winter, lack of sidewalks  and  dangers for children who are  walking to school.

While a traffic impact study has been done, the study was done during the summer months when school was not in session. A more detailed analysis of traffic volume will be done once classes resume in order to get a better picture of the actual traffic volume.  That  updated traffic study will be reviewed by  Administration  before the rezoning is  presented to Council for 4th and final reading.

The plan calls for  a second  access to the  subdivision,  which  would  be  developed  on the same lines as the  exit to Churchill  from North Nechako Road to Edgewood Terrace.  The development of that second access will be the first step in the development of the subdivision.  But residents  worry that second access will  link with  Brink Place, and make a through  road that will just add to their traffic concerns.

The other major concern is geo-technical. There are significant slopes in the area where the townhouse development is proposed, and City Staff recommend a geo-technical survey be completed before the rezoning is given final reading.

The proponent  has agreed to meet with the  neighbourhood  to refine their  design to  address   their concerns as the hearing  was  about land use and whether  the  proposed subdivision is appropriate to change a zoning  from  Agriculture forestry to residential.  The subdivision design  will be dealt with  administratively working with the applicant and the neighbourhood.

“I appreciate the applicant’s  plan to  meet with the neighbourhood to  resolve the issue, but  there is nothing binding” said Councillor Brian Skakun, “As far as I’m concerned the buck stops here.”  Skakun  said he could not  support the rezoning and stood alone in opposing it when the final vote was called.

Regardless of the development, Councillor Garth  Frizzell  says there are clearly issues with the neighbourhood that need to be addressed.   One of the issues being a claim that a fire truck cannot turn around on some of the streets  “This is an area that needs attention.”

“The residents have some very valid concerns” says Councillor Terri McConnachie, “I have the greatest confidence this will move forward with meaningful engagement  with the  residents of the  (Brink Place) cul-de-sac”

Mayor  Lyn Hall says he was pleased with the commitment from the proponent and  that the residents  aren’t  actually against the subdivision rather, the concerns were with traffic and safety.  Hall  says he is confident  there will be consultation, and supported the rezoning.

 

Comments

Ah yes, and they wonder why PG has perfected the art of staying at 70,000 people for so long now. Propose a subdivision, nothing but hurdles and red tape. Propose any development, nothing but an uphill battle.

I get the impression that Skakun takes the contrary position just because he thinks it makes him out to be some kind of maverick on council.

Skakun is right when he says nothing is binding. Why is the applicant only planning to meet with the neighbourhood, why wasn’t it done before they went to council?

Skakun was right. The existing Brink place is substandard today and was substandard when it was built. The proposed layout of the new subdivision should be rejigged which may mean 5 or so fewer lots, and the next subdivision he is proposing along the river with “cluster housing” should have been included at this time so that the whole thing can be seen now, rather than going at this in a piecemeal fashion.

In fact, administration did not do their work in presenting this to council since they could not answer the question of whether the new subdivision layout should include a “park” component or not. In addition, they did not look at it from the point of view of access by emergency vehicles such as fire engines which residents were saying would not be able to squeeze through the streets and tight curves.

Edgewood Terrace was set up properly with a frontage road on North Nechko Rd. Someone made a mistake, whether it was the regional district at the time or the City when they amalgamated the area, by not continuing that frontage road towards the east. Now we have two houses in the way of doing that. One of those houses has a dirt driveway directly off North Nechako Rd. with sight obscuring weed trees preventing a clear view of oncoming traffic.

One mistake after another in planning safe subdivisions.

It is time for PG to start growing up, “filling in not out”. This is just the first step to filling in, all the green space we have inside city limits, that generate 0 taxes, relative to the filled in spaces. Yes we all pay more taxes for every big green space we have around the city. Remember we pay for the roads, sewer lines and all the other infrastructure between filled in spaces.

Do the math. We have 318 square kms with a population of about 72,000 in Vancouver they are 1/3 the size 115 square kms with a population of 9 times or 603,500. If you wonder why we pay such high taxes that is why.

We complain about high taxes but do not promote filling in the open spaces. We can not afford to support hundred of square kms of green space, unless we are willing to pay extra taxes.

The space between the rivers is fairly well filled in but on the outside of the rivers we pay a premium for all that green space we see.

What loosing agricultural land. Anyone consult with the natives? Any bike lanes?

Not sure the traffic concern is valid? The subdivision is accessed via North Nechako, a main artery into the city, how are 50 or 60 lots going to make any real difference to the amount of traffic travelling on the road? This is good infill, close to a school and city services.

Wonder if the town house complex will look the one on Ferry where the units look into the parking area.

And yes the city needs to doo some fill-in in the existing sub divisions.
Cheers

Build it, I think it will be a nice little subdivision,.

PGGUYY wrote: “Do the math. We have 318 square kms with a population of about 72,000 in Vancouver they are 1/3 the size 115 square kms with a population of 9 times or 603,500. If you wonder why we pay such high taxes that is why.”

I am not wondering why we pay such high taxes because I know we are not. One has to compare median priced houses not house assessed at the same value in a major urban centre that is one of the most expensive housing cost cities in the world to a small city more than 800 km away fomr a major urban centre.

Yes, the collectors and arterials are not going to have to be built out, however since these are 50+ single family residences they will need the same local additional length of services for water, sanitary, storm, communication, electrical, gas, roadway, sidewalk, street cleaning, snow plowing, sanding, etc.

That development represents the same 70+% of our already sprawling Detached Single Family Dwelling Unit inventory. It is what sells.

It is not the undeveloped lands in a city with a large land base that is the expense. It is the luxury of having a predominately detached on-the-ground housing lifestyle that is continuing to kill us. Even more so is the impression that people have that we are paying high taxes, higher than most if not all cities in BC. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is the same fallacy that Zurowski was trying to get elected on. Too many people do not understand how wrong that is. In general, people in larger cities pay more municipal taxes.

Here is the comparison of Vancouver and Prince George as far as the expenses of running the city and where the money goes.

The median assessed residential dwelling unit in Vancouver pays $6,560 in taxes and user fees in 2015. In Prince George it is $3,917. That is 40.3% less.

Looking at it from the point of view what the operating expenses of the two cities are and breaking that down per capita. For the year 2013, (populations used are also 2013 as reported by BCStats) which is the latest year for which stats are available.

The first figure is the total expense and the second is the per capital expense.

Vancouver 666,517 population
General Government $159,586,000 $239.43
Protective Services $345,203,000 $517.92
Solid Waste Mgmt and Recycling $61,123,000 $91.71
Health, Social Services and Housing $37,676,000 $56.53
Development Services $19,672,000 $29.51
Transportation and Transit $104,726,000 $157.12
Parks, Recreation and Culture $255,083,000 $382.71
Water Services $82,129,000 $123.22
Sewer Services $67,796,000 $101.72
Other Services $0 $0.00
Amortization $174,708,000 $262.12
Other Adjustments $0 $0.00
Total Expenses $1,307,702,000 $1,961.99

Prince George 76,286 population
General Government $16,026,000 $210.08 lower
Protective Services $37,209,000 $487.76 lower
Solid Waste Mgmt and Recycling $2,880,000 $37.75 lower
Health, Social Services and Housing $0 $0.00 lower
Development Services $2,281,000 $29.90 higher
Transportation and Transit $19,875,000 $260.53 higher
Parks, Recreation and Culture $22,536,000 $295.41 lower
Water Services $5,810,000 $76.16 lower
Sewer Services $5,278,000 $69.19 lower
Other Services $3,137,000 $41.12 higher
Amortization $16,265,000 $213.21 lower
Other Adjustments $0 $0.00
Total Expenses $131,297,000 $1,721.12 lower

12.28% lower municipal expenses/capita than living in Vancouver

Time to rethink your hypothesis.

If we want to build infills which will not continue to cost future residents as much as they need to, we have to start building more dense housing than we have been. Build twice as many housing units on the same acreage, fewer public access roads with the same length of services serving twice as many dwelling units and we would be getting somewhere.

We have to learn how to build more condos like the one on 6th and Vancouver rather than those on Ferry and 5th and Tabor. We need someone who knows how to design interesting and compact “cluster” housing, a tern some Councilors did not even seem to know the meaning of last night. That is how far behind we are in this city.

I couldn’t find the median house price in Ottawa, but the average price here is basically $400,000. In the outlying suburbs, this would roughly translate into a 15-20 year old home of the type you would see in Southridge or Westgate. Downtown, 400K wouldn’t buy you much. Newer detached homes in the suburbs would be more, while new town homes could run into that 400K range, but most would be low to mid 300s. Basically, there are all sorts of options depending on area, age, style, etc.

Property taxes for that 400K home here are about $4,400 per year AND there is no home owners grant. You pay the full $4,400 plus you pay for water.

I think gopg2015 is bang on. PG does not have high property taxes, nor does it really benefit from the services and infrastructure that come with those higher taxes.

I also agree that when it comes to developments that promote density, PG could learn allot by simply travelling to other places that do it well and by ensuring that local developers actually promote and follow such guidelines and designs. There are ample examples of places that do it well.

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