Elected Ontario candidates have already said they intend to hold Trudeau to his promise of electoral reform within the first 180 days in office.

This could be a huge flash point if Trudeau goes down the proportional representation route. It will pit rural Canada and regions that value local representation against the urban centers that may favor a proportional approach. It could end up as nasty and divisive as the National Energy Program if proportional representation is pushed on rural Canada.

I would argue that if one was to keep local riddings, with local representation, then the best way forward is to have a transferable ballot that ensures the winning candidate has at least 50% support.

I would argue that with a transferable ballot we eliminate the gravity towards extremist ideologies in our political system, as the fight is for the center majority.

I would also argue that a transferable ballot benefits smaller parties as much as larger parties. It is an equalizer in a polarized and partisan atmosphere.

I would argue that a 4th place party coming up the middle as everyone’s second choice, with some good candidates, could through getting some good candidates elected that appeal to a majority… could in the end influence a more proportional outcome of final seats elected without the need for party lists and a loss of local representation. I would bet a transferable ballot would generate a final result that is within 1-2% of the actual overall proportional outcome.

I would argue that since all the three main political parties use the transferable ballot to select the candidate that has the majority support within the party. That clearly they already have this consensus of opinion as to the best way to elect, as exemplified by their own internal process.

I would argue that a transferable ballot empowers the local candidate in its relationship with the party, rathar than diminishes it as would a party list under the proportional representation proposal.

Seems Peter has a little different view now that the NDP got hammered. The media massaged and nurtured the voting trends that favoured the liberals. No sh#t!!

Time to get rid of the archaic party system altogether. There’s far too much power in the hands of a small group of people.

Here’s what will happen :
– those making over 200k will defer their income to other areas, leaving their tax rate unchanged
– The middle class will pay for all of Justin’s new immigrants to come to Canada
– The middle class will pay for Justin’s new deficit plan
– The Libs will punish the West for voting conservative, and ditch all energy sector programs
– Pipelines are cancelled, so are future oil and gas projects

Here comes the fun.

We can argue for and against our present system until the cows come home. Some say its a great system, others say no.

The ideas that all these parties and groups worked to get rid of the Conservative Government is true to some extent, however the reverse is also true, many millions of people voted Conservative or Liberals to ensure that the NDP, Bloc, Greens,. etc did not get into Government, and there certainly was some success in that area.

We now have the Liberals in power with a majority of seats, which they got with 40% of the votes cast. 60% voted against them. Basically a reversal of the previous Governments numbers.

The suggestion that somehow using the STV or Transferable ballot will somehow get us a better form of Government is open to question.

I would suggest that we pick a number of ridings and use the transferable voting system and see how it would impact the results had it been used in the last election.

You are bang on PG101. JT is a 1% that will not be affected by the tax hikes. He knows better, but the middle class has little understanding on tax avoidance.

OK so I knew Peter Ewart was a radical “leftie” but now his tru NDP socialist colours are overwhelming in his rhetoric.

Peter..you lost again and this country will never move from a first past the post formula to your “here’s a way that losers can actually win” formula.

Just look at how that awesome diversity is working out in London:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec9_1445436306

I’m looking forward to this. There are numerous petitions already and a ‘day of climate action’ in Ottawa meant to hold Trudeau’s feet to the fire on election promises. He had better pony up or he will be vilified by all the ‘new’ voters who haven’t had the chance to become jaded like us.

Its interesting to note that the NDP only picked up 671 votes in this election,. That’s basically nothing. On the other hand the Liberals went from 2,200 in the last election to 16,822 this time around. So where did the votes come from??? The Conservatives dropped by 5025 so this would be the soft conservative vote moving to the liberals, however that still leaves 9000+ votes unaccounted for.

Were there that many new voters, or did a lot of people who were registered to vote finally come out. My guess is its probably a 50/50 split between new voters and eligible voters coming out to vote. 9000 additional votes in a riding of this size is somewhat significant, but considering the circumstances (propaganda) surrounding this election I am not surprised.

In any event it is significant that the NDP made no inroads, not only in this riding but across the Country. This is a huge rejection of Mulcair and his party, and I would suspect that they will have a leadership review fairly soon.

I am not aware of any post election talk about changing our system of voting. In fact most people are now talking about the Blue Jays.

Once again the Greens, Independents, and CHP did not make any significant difference.

Its interesting to note that the NDP only picked up 671 votes in this election,. That’s basically nothing. On the other hand the Liberals went from 2,200 in the last election to 16,822 this time around. So where did the votes come from??? The Conservatives dropped by 5025 so this would be the soft conservative vote moving to the liberals, however that still leaves 9000+ votes unaccounted for.

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I was speaking with a young woman yesterday (mid 20’s if I must define my version of young) and we got to talking about the election. She mentioned to me that a lot of her friends and acquaintances were voting for the first time simply because Trudeau is going to legalize marijuana. I found it interesting that out of all the issues out there, this was the one that stirred the masses.

The result of the election are actually very simple to understand….millions of people voted to get Harper and his fear mongering corporate agenda right wing party out of office. People can and obviously are trying to spin this about the “left wing” NDP loosing votes but let’s look at what really happened. I understand this will be difficult for many on this site to comprehend. Harper and the Conservative were overwhelmingly voted out of office by the Canadian people. It’s that simple. Try your best to spin this as that’s what we have come to expect from many posters on this site.

Well put unlisted . I’m an atheist and I would have voted CHP if that was what it took to rid the country of that vicious fat basterd soiling our once clean and Progessive country . PG voted for four more years of austerity . Let’s hope you get what you voted for .

The official opposition is often described as the government in waiting. Before Monday no party in the history of Canada had ever come from being third place to form a majority government. Fact–no spin required. The fact that the ndp lost half of their seats shows that Canadians do not think they are fit to form government.

The ndp has resumed their traditional place of the runt of the litter and I think that the “Post election talk is all about election reform” is nothing more than the voices Ewart hears in his head.

The only way that the ndp would ever stand a chance in the future is if they find some way to synthesize “Jack Layton Dust”, something they must have run out of half way through the campaign.

The preferential ballot is just a way for the perenial losers(read ndp) to leverage their poor showing into something that might alter end result. I agree with what gopg2015 said yesterday…why would I want a second choice to represent the riding.

Ataloss..

Your choice of language in your post is indeed a clear indication of you level of class… Hope you at least have running water in whatever hole you are in.

Ataloss give it a rest! The Harper era is done.. you won! Prince George will be well represented with Bob and Todd, I highly doubt that you have ever introduced yourself to either, but trust me they are both good and decent people.

“Your choice of language in your post is indeed a clear indication of you(sic)level of class”

ataloss=peeps lite;D

I remember we had that citizens commission on electoral reform in BC. They picked a 100 people at random who spent a bunch of cash and came up with a system no one could understand so we had a referendum and voted to keep the current system. People only dislike the current system when it causes them to lose. Even on this site, the same posters who rant about how Harper ran the country with only 36% of the vote, smile quietly when the NDP took power with 41% of the vote.

One thing about the current system, it forces political parties to take in a broader spectrum of opinions if they have any hope of forming government.

What we had in this election is a drop of 10% for the Conservatives and NDP in the popular vote and an increase of 20% for the Liberals. So in effect soft conservatives, and disenfranchised ndp’s elected Trudeau. Without them the Liberals would still be in third place.

2011 Election (popular vote) %

Cons 39.6
NDP 30.6
Libs 18.9

2015 Election (popular vote) %
Libs 39.47
Cons 31.89
NDP 19.71

Liberals and Conservatives changed places for 39% of the popular vote.

NDP took power in Alberta.

The liberal fall into third place has more to do with ineffective and frankly unelectable leadership of Dion and Ignatieff. To his credit Trudeau put a team and a plan in place to rebuild the party. He did bring in some of the old warhorses who know how to get things done in the backrooms.

NSF I have running water both hot and cold out of my own deep well . In the house and everything . And it’s so sweet that I don’t need a softener . All in the best ( most expensive ) neighbourhood outside of our city . I would have written how I really feel about the out going excrement but it would have been unprintable . The Harper era will be with us for a great deal longer than you think . The damage he’s done will not be cleaned up quickly . I wish it could be .

The simplest way to achieve electoral reform is to do away with political parties. Nunavut has no political parties and it functions well. I believe it was George Washington who said ” political parties will be a pale on this country”. Of course the quote is American but I see no difference. The question in my mind is, how did we get political parties in Canada? There is nothing in the BNA Act says we have to have political parties. So how did political parties come into existence in Canada? This may be a topic for Peter.

Prior to our last election .
The Federal Liberals were in third place.
Not the official opposition.
They spent that time wisely going about the country.
Talking , listening and meeting the people ,and rebuilding.
Along with marketing the Trudeau brand.

It was mentioned on election night.
That Canadians don’t vote for extreme right or left wing parties.
To be federal governments.

But prefer a centralist party that is either a little right or left of center.

“Post election talk is all about electoral reform” – uh, no. No its not. The dippers and greens are the only ones even mentioning it. So, perhaps you could say the “talk is all about electoral reform amongst the losers”.

As for cleaning up Stevie’s election law . The guy was so delusional that this idiot actually thought he could impose Canadian election laws on the rest of the whole world . Did he actually think he could impose a fine an prison sentence on expats and foreigners for breaking his elections act ? I’m sure John Oliver and John Cleese are quivering in their boots waiting for the long arm of the harperettes to drag them to court . What a laugh .

I’ll try to explain why I’m in favour of electoral reform, and no I’m not some “dipper or green”, I’m just not a conservative. I think that the Liberals having a majority at ~40% is wrong, and I think strategic voting is a slap in the face to our political system in Canada. The idea of voting for someone you don’t necessarily want solely to get someone out of power is ridiculous. Obviously the person I voted for wasn’t elected locally, and I’m fine with that… but I’m less fine with the idea that our elected official is quite possibly my last choice on the ballot.

Harper and the Conservatives found their way around our electoral system’s problems by unifying into one party to represent the right side of the spectrum. There is no right-wing vote split anymore, so anyone on that side of centre will never have to worry about feeling like they had a wasted vote. Having the NDP and Liberals unite isn’t an ideal solution, but unless a right wing competitor to the conservatives rises up and actually starts to succeed, the left will always have to be strategic or else they will never get any seats again without combining their votes.

That is why I think we need some sort of alternative system. Everyone more left than the Conservatives in Prince George essentially wasted their vote because they had several parties to choose from, whereas the right only had one. I wasn’t impressed by either of our NDP or Liberal candidates, but I definitely would’ve preferred someone get elected that’d be present in Ottawa (remember our two local Conservatives barely participated in local forums or debates, and when they did they said some pretty outlandish things and blocked all follow up questions – #blockedbybob for example).

It’s very likely that this result is just going to have the NDP fall into obscurity and we will have a two-party system by default. Anyone far enough left to vote solely for the NDP will feel they wasted their vote, and the left-leaning Liberals are the next best thing before the Conservatives (to a left-wing person).

I have no idea what the answer is otherwise I’d be in Ottawa working on it for the Liberals! I just think something is off with how our system is currently.

Ataloss. Get a grip. Foreign involvement in Canadian elections is covered by the Canadian Elections Act. Sec. 331 and has nothing to do with the Conservative Government. It was in effect long before Harper came along.

Leroyjenkins wrote: “Just look at how that awesome diversity is working out in London:”

They used to call them skinheads if you are old enough to recall. Notice the fellow with the red jacket and “BULLIES” proudly written on it.

Leroyjenkins, my question to you is if a number of “muslims” were to have protested about Harper’s stand on the hiqab outside the Services Canada offices in PG, would we have found you walking around with a red jacket and “BULLIES” written on it and be joined by other bullies picking a fight.?

Just like people on here are willing to pick a fight verbally by having to type, there are people out there in some parts of this country and some parts of this world willing to pick physical fights.

According to sociological theories, one of the things that can be noted about these clashes is that the social class involved are typically the lower classes on the pyramid who are concerned about the new comers taking their place and pushing them even lower economically.

LMAO! The rest of Canada dumps the cons and PG re elects them.

Palopu wrote: “So in effect soft conservatives, and disenfranchised ndp’s elected Trudeau”

If there are “soft” cons there also soft libs as well as soft ndp. The definition of soft in the political realm means their votes are transferable. They are the undecided that pollsters encounter. They are the ones who do not blindly vote the party because their mommies and daddies did or because they associate with a group, typically in the workplace, who are of like minds about many things, including politics.

Since we do not elect the PM in this country, the leader of the party has a lot of influence of which party they choose. When one watches an election such as the one we just experienced, it becomes abundantly clear that a significant number of people vote the party, not the capability of the local candidate.

In the 2011 election we had Harper who had managed to run a government in a minority environment where compromises had to be made on occasion to prevent the government from falling. We had a carpetbagger Canadian from the USA parachuted in to lead a faltering Liberal Party which was in disarray because they had not been working on the succession of the party leader. Then we had the charismatic, smart, totally capable Jack Layton who lead the NDP. In addition we had the Bloc Québécois which was falling out of favour. We had the perfect storm with all the stars aligning to give Harper the win.

The stars aligned differently this time. Layton was replaced by the bureaucrat Mulcair with little charisma. Duceppe was still there to give a left vote option for those who did not want the NDP which is really an English Canada party to the Québécois. Harper had shown his true colours while he led a majority government for four years, becoming more arrogant as time progressed. The Liberals had a home grown candidate who, just by name alone, was the de facto successor which played better in Eastern Canada than in the prairies and Alberta.

While there were other factors at play, I view the 2015 election as one where party leaders played a significant, if not major part. As can be seen from the comments on this site especially, the Trudeau was seen by many not only as a re-creation of his father but also as an eastern Canadian and Québécois leading the country.

A bit of an interesting aside on that. Quebec and Ontario make up 61.6% of the population of Canada. For those who keep pushing for proportional representation, it only stands to reason that the PM should come from one of those provinces. Not only that, the probability that they will is, of course, in their favour. ;-)

During an election parties define themselves by the wedge issues they create for themselves. Example Harper = balanced budget, Trudeau = small deficits. The NDP could have created its own wedge which could have been Mulcair = about the budget we will wait and see if Harper’s claim is real once we win the election! The others had already committed themselves to their own wedges! By placing themselves firmly on the side of Harper’s wedge they painted themselves into the Harper corner with no possible way of escaping! Why did it not work? People in B.C. and Ontario remember the huge deficits the NDP ran up when in power! The strangest thing about the NDP decision was that nobody forced them to align themselves with Harper.

I doubt that Peter would have written an essay condemning the first past the post system, the media and who knows what else if the NDP rather than the Liberals had made it into power via the first past the post present system.

Let us first of all do something which obviously irritated Canadian voters the most: Ban ad hominem attack ads altogether by adopting a code of advertising conduct to which ALL parties must adhere! Why is blatant and intentional defamation of character and slander allowed during an election campaign and subject to civil law when an election is over?

Then, we may address other issues, like media bias and campaign expense limits.

Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 @ 1:38 PM by Dumbfounded with a score of 2

LMAO! The rest of Canada dumps the cons and PG re elects them.

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39.5% of the ballots for for Liberal candidates while 31.9% went to Conservative candidates. Hardly a dumping by the rest of Canada.

That is one way of looking at it.

Another way of looking at it is from the point of view of seats. The thing about that is, the same as in the 2011 election and all elections before that, it is the seats that matter, not the national popular vote.

The seats are gained by the riding vote.

The more ridings one has that have successful candidates, the more seats on has in the house.

The more seats one has in the house, the better the standing in the house.

The one who has the most seats in the house, especially when they are more than 50% of the total seats is the governing party.

The leader of the governing party is the PM.

In the case of the 2015 election, that is the current one and the one which matters at the moment, the Liberals had 184 seats for 54.4% of the house. The cons have 99 seats for 29.3 % of the seats in the house.

The popular vote means diddly squat. The sooner pollsters find a different measure, the sooner they will be able to predict the outcome of an election a bot more accurately as to minority or majority government. They did not do very well with that aspect of it.

However, if it makes you happy, go ahead and use that figure.

Oh, BTW, Harper may have been the PM for 10 years, but 6 of those were as a minority leader and only 4 as a majority leader.

It was those 4 years which did him in. He did not have the others to hold his hand any more, so he did not quite get the mood of the country right without that assistance.

I have heard it said that not being able to recognize the symptoms of being rejected by the people is considered by many to be a cognitive impairment. :-)

Sparrow asks why he would want his second choice to win the election.

That would be if your first choice was eliminated for not enough votes. Your second choice is always better then your last choice winning with less then a majority.

It’s also better than media telling people to vote their second choice as there first choice out of fear politic to stop the fear politicians and thus playing poker with the outcome at the expense of a true reflection of the voters will and intent.

Trudeau said today that electoral reform is his top priority now that the election is over and says this was the last election Canadians will ever use first past the post. Toronto Star is pushing hard for a PR outcome. Hence the coming battle between rural representation and urban PR.

http:// www .thestar. com/news/federal-election/2015/10/21/electoral-reform-looms-for-canada-trudeau-promises.html

Trudeau made it his last ditch plank on his cross country tour in the last days of the election.

http:// www .cbc. ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-vows-to-end-1st-past-the-post-voting-in-platform-speech-1.3114902

Trudeau agenda now that he has a majority.

http: //globalnews.ca/ news/2286815/trudeau-wins-heres-what-hes-promised-and-what-hes-set-to-face/

I guess the hard core cons are in denial. Maybe fantasizing their own agenda. I think Trudeau is pretty clear electoral reform is on the agenda.

So….how about our new MP in PG – Cariboo. Is he going to lobby the government for another runway expansion ? He was such a success at airport marketing, what is it people think we gain by sending Dick Jr to Ottawa ? Because he is an expert on the TPP ? Because he has nice hair ?

I guess the point of my rant is…..instead of focussing on the choice of the nation, lets focus on the choice of our district.

Sieg , strategic voting is like a slap in th face of ………. Some times it take a slap . First past the post is just wrong . Like right now . For the next four years the cons will have no voice . That’s just as wrong as the left , middle and I hate to mention them but the athirial not having had a voice for the last four years . Proportional representation would change that by giving everyone a voice .

veritASS…trust me they are both good PPL…hehehe LMAO!! bob Z..has a shady past..did ya no that lets have bob tell us bout that??? I have it from the best scource ya can get !!CONS BE Gone…..luvin it…..we made the rite choice put the garbage OUT like we did….harper waz Gutless,thief,liar,cheater..you’d fit rite in there VeritASS..try refugee in Syria…try can use ya…SCUD incoming….