Maybe council should stop hiring people? And maybe start cutting the current payroll if they really need the money.

How about enforcing the current bylaws? They’d make a killing if they did that!

Size 2016 2017 2018
Small $143.00 $146.00 $149.00
Medium $188.00 $192.00 $196.00
Large $228.00 $133.00 $138.00

I am going to switch from a small to a large in 2017 lol.

Hartly 2, ya I was wondering if that is a typo or CPG economics.

I’m still waiting to see all the money we’ve saved by going automated.

you’ll never see it axeman, it is a great idea but, someone might threaten to punch them in the nose, so bylaws enforcement? never going to happen any time soon.

Council needs to look at all aspects of running this City with a view of reducing costs, not increasing them.

This would mean an immediate freeze on hiring, and wage increases. Downsizing through attrition, and cutting the budgets of every department by a minimum of 5%.

Prince George has a huge tax base both commercial and residential, and collects lot of money in taxes and from other sources. The problem is, is that they spend this money with little or no concern about those who pay the taxes.

Time for this Mayor and Council to get serious about reducing costs. We know that they have another 3 years to go, so they think they can do all the dirty work before the next election.

If this Council does not start to get serious about the costs of running this City, then they should ask Quesnel to give them some help.

We pay huge salaries to our Managers, and part of their responsibilities are to be fiscally responsible. I have not seen any indication that they take their roles seriously to this point.

Time to spend less time on renaming parks, changing the hunting regulation in the City, putting in bike lanes in places where there are no bike rider, etc; etc;, and do some serious work on cost and tax reduction.

Thanks for taking over where Sherri Green’s council left off. Gouge gouge. Really good way to show the people of PG, the people who vote for you to be on council, that you actually care about them.

Dont we all remember the pitch for automated garbage collection from D Rogers.. will be cheaper in the long run… Well we believed you but how long is this run supposed to be…

have to be saving lots of money from the cost of fuel.. that should be covering any increase we need. Guess we have to pay for all these new high paid people in city hall….

There is also a recommendation to boost the Downtown Offstreet Parking Levy which is charged to downtown property owners.

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Is this levy only charged to the business owners downtown or does Northern Health, the Provincial and Federal governments pay this as well? They are, after all, the main users of the parking spaces in the downtown core.

Every city in B.C. has automated garbage pickup. It may not save money, but it sure saves workers from suffering short term and permanent injuries and disabilities. If someone promised financial savings it may have been based on insufficient information.

Stitch
“Thanks for taking over where Sherri Green’s council left off. Gouge gouge. Really good way to show the people of PG, the people who vote for you to be on council, that you actually care about them.”

6 of the Councillors currently occupying seats WERE part of Shari Green’s Council! Voting just to switch out the Mayor is not the answer. We switched out Rogers, then switched out Green, but each time voted back in familiar faces. Insanity – doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Unless the people of PG vote to dramatically change the face of Council the insanity will continue.

Palopu – the garbage collection cost calculation is an attempt to segregate the cost of operating that function from the rest of City Hall operating costs. Staffing levels are a reflection of the garbage collection function. I am assuming that people are not sitting and doing nothing other than during break time. Wage increases are based on collective agreements which are currently in place.

So, the important considerations are the tipping fees. They are being increased by 7%. That, however, is based on a weight basis, not a lump sum. In other words, there is nothing in the report to Council which shows the total tonnage plus cost based on tipping fees over the past few years before recycling was introduced and after it was introduced. It could very well be, and should be, that the annual tipping charges are not going up by 7% but are actually going down.

The other thing is that we need to examine the RDFFG landfill operations. As less garbage comes in, there is less work to be done and the efficiency may actually go down. The same with City collection operations. The trucks still do their rounds, they may, however, be dumping less garbage into the truck and as a result the daily trips to the dump may decrease resulting in fewer working hours. That means equipment would last longer, etc.

The report is available here: princegeorge.ca/cityhall/mayorcouncil/councilagendasminutes/Agendas/2015/2015_11_16/documents/Attch_2016_Solid_Waste_User_Fees.pdf

In my opinion, there is an insufficient analysis made public or even done in the first place.

Not only should we be shown the result of switching from manual pickup to automated pickup, but also the result of switching from no recycling pickup to recycling pickup.

Anytime when one changes an operational process one should check that the intended objective is actually achieved. It is simply a good management practice.
———————————–

As far as my own garbage goes – over the past 3 years I have switched from the largest container to the smallest. I can go at least 2 weeks, sometimes 3, without putting the container on the street, thus saving some time for the driver.

Imagine if I were the average rather than the minority. We could go to a 4 day pickup schedule with ease and see some cost savings from fewer working hours and less wear on equipment.

Filtered the second sign of insanity is posting on blogs. (The first sign is reading them.)

There’s no reason for a cost increase, most of these posts I would agree with. The City needs to look at cost-cutting measures for once, and stop downloading every little increase on the people of PG.

I’m sure in fuel alone they’ve saved more than 2% of their overall cost structure.

Our property tax rate is already 50% higher than communities like Kamloops and nearly 400% the tax rate of Vancouver.

Municipal spending needs more attention

pgjohn…they will need a Consultant…raise the price of BEERS at events…solved…..

The Mayor, Council, and City Manager know full well that there are many ways that they can use to reduce the cost of running this City.

The problem is they are not doing anything about it. Time for them to get to work, and to lead by example. That would mean that Management itself needs to reduce in size and take a voluntary decrease in salaries. This would be a good way to lead by example. Then they need to streamline how things get done at City Hall, and ensure that we are getting maximum bang for our buck.

If you look at the number of people in Management, and the amount that they get paid in salaries it will knock your socks off. These people are fully aware that they are over paid and under worked, and if they are not willing to earn their dollars by making the hard choices, then the Mayor and Council itself need to do it.

We don’t need a bunch of reports, studies, or committee’s, what we need is a reduction in the overall cost of running the City, and a freeze on tax and service charge increase’s. This can and should be done.

Prince George always likes to think that it is a **leading** City. If that’s the case, then lets see them lead the Province in tax and cost reductions.

They also need to look at OVERTIME… Every time there is a event happening in town, they send galores of staff to help make it happen and they are paid OT..

Imagine if I were the average rather than the minority. We could go to a 4 day pickup schedule with ease and see some cost savings from fewer working hours and less wear on equipment.

——–

We’d save on equipment wear and tear that’s for sure, but there’s no way the number of paid hours would be reduced.

Pgjohn> you make the commonest mistake that people make when they look at comparative property tax and user fee rates in different communities.

One cannot use mill rates to make comparisons to other cities. One has to use the rate for “representative” residence or representative rates for other property classifications.

The total assessment of PG is about half that of a community closer to the lower mainland of a similar size. The operating costs of two similar sized communities are very close to each other with some anomalies like snow clearance, depth of service burials, cost of some energy, etc. However, the total assessment of taxable properties is likely twice and even three and four time that of PG. Therefor the mill rates ($tax/$1000 property value) in a community with lower assessed property values have to be higher than those in communities with higher assessments.

Look up BCstats. They give representative residential property taxes + user fees + charges for School District, Hospital, Regional District, etc.

Please educate yourself and stop distributing misrepresentative data. That is one of the main problems we have and City Hall really should do some better awareness raising about that.

Here is a link to a newspaper list which is taken from the bcstats data.
PG – average house = $200,288 with taxes of $3,032

Nanaimo, Kamloops, Kelowna, West Kelowna, etc. are all higher.

In fact, there are 61 communities where residential taxes are higher.

The typical community which has lower taxes for the average house are smaller communities.

So, axman, what are you saying? The City cannot institute layoffs as a result of fewer hours driven? Why not?

The same goes for the heavy equipment operators at the landfill. Less fill to move = less time to move it = less payable hours, likely through layoffs or reduced working hours spread over the workforce.

If that is not possible under the current collective agreement, then it becomes a negotiation issue.

If that fails, then look at privatization. There are enough communities in the USA as well as Canada who have privatized curbside garbage and recycling services.

Posted on Monday, November 16, 2015 @ 2:03 PM by gopg2015 with a score of 1

So, axman, what are you saying? The City cannot institute layoffs as a result of fewer hours driven? Why not?

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They have a no layoff clause in their contract.

gopg2015, perhaps you need to your research as well.

PG real estate used to be much cheaper than other cities, but now we’re on par with Kamloops. I understand there are multiple factors to include, however, a city with approx. 700 employees, and the entry rate of pay approx. $24/hr, this isn’t a sustainable model.

I’m not exactly anti-union, but their union should have an award for milking the tax payers of PG of everything they have.

23 firefighters Make get this folks….$ 100,000…did ya know that….and all those others ” pools and copshop…24.and change an hour…We need our own Police force…these rcmp..can go watch for the Russians coming in the north…

Posted on Monday, November 16, 2015 @ 4:06 PM by tliotg with a score of 0

23 firefighters Make get this folks….$ 100,000…did ya know that

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I really don’t mind that but the 5 Human Resources people each make over $100,000 a year

The biggest impediment to housing starts in this and other Cities in BC are the real estate and developer business’s, and the construction industry, and Unions. These are the companies that drive up the cost of building a home. Once the home is built with these huge costs, then the City moves in and taxes them based on the value. The problem is the value of the home is useless unless you sell it. So we pay taxes on a home that is essentially overvalued for 30 or more years, plus the interest to the banks on borrowed money, and then at sometime in the distant future, we perhaps sell the home and make a small(if any) profit.

To pay $150,000 for a small lot in Prince George to build a house on a pile of sand buried somewhere in the bush in lower college heights is ludicrous. The lot in actual fact might be worth $50,000.00 The $350,000.00 house is probably worth $150,000.00

Most of the money goes to profits for the above mentioned real estate, developers, banks, and of course the City in taxes.

We need to reduce the cost of City lots, and get the price of a house down to a reasonable cost. Only then will people begin to build and move into this town like they did in the past.

So as mentioned above we end up paying taxes on profits. So a house and serviced lot that is worth approx. $200,000.00 is valued at $350,000.00 because of all the associated costs, and profits, and we pay taxes on the higher price even though we cannot benefit from the higher price unless we sell the house.

Does anyone ever notice that we never get any information on how much profit is made per serviced lot, or how much profit is made on the construction of a house. I suspect that in some cases the profit on a house runs into the $50,000.00 plus bracket.

We should not have to pay taxes on the so called **value** of these houses. There has to be a better way to tax people on their houses. One idea would be to tax them based on the actual value of the components that go into building the house and a nominal value for the price of a serviced lot.

It is very simple, houses get sold on the open market. BC Assessment values houses based on demand as indicated by the purchase price of houses, broken down into house characteristics as well as location.

That is the reason why a 1,040sf “college heights” special with basement half out of the ground and a split level entrance can cost $275,000 in lower College Heights and $225,000 for a similar condition and age in Heritage subdivision.

And, to extend that further, all other things being reasonably equal, about $325 in Kamloops and C$190,000 in Blaine, WA.

It is about as close an approximation as one can get to the supply and demand theory.

I was wondering if the recycling is having a impact on the garbage collection. I know we have reduced our garbage by about %40 due to the recycling and now use a smaller garbage can.. Are they trying to make up for lost revenue with this increase ?

As for firefighters making $100,000 a year.. how many hours a year are they working in overtime? I know due to insufficient staffing there is lots of OT our there for the firefighters.. its cheaper to pay one person OT then hire another body.. anyone in city hall making over $100,000 is over paid. They dont risk their lives, save our lives.. and make that kind of money.. thats criminal.

point2homes.com/CA/Home-For-Sale/BC/Prince-George/College-Heights/7938-ROCHESTER-CRESCENT/14240264.html

That is a link to an “average” or “representational” house in PG with a current listing for $257,0007 on Rochester Crescent, built 1980, listed as 1,824 sf because of the mostly finished basement. Has a garage added to it as well, likely not part of the original house. Mortgage rate a low 2.42%

Here is a similar style home in Kelowna.
point2homes.com/CA/Home-For-Sale/BC/Kelowna/Lynrick-Oswell/1775-Lynrick-Road/10422820.html?featured=fa69bdff-4e33-44eb-b951-d53f6dce97ac&featuredGeoId=205407

1,840 sf, built in 1972, single car garage, $409,000

If prices in Kamloops or anywhere else go down and the assessment will follow to suit, the city will have to adjust their mill rate upward in order capture the same amount of tax dollars. The reverse is true when the prices go up. Very simple concept to remember.

Also, it is the value of the property which generally dictates the cost of a house. Construction costs across BC in are quite similar. That is why a similar sized property might cost $100,000 in PG, but could easily cost $700,000 in North Van.

Speaking about risky jobs, from the following link for US workers

riderrants.blogspot.com/2014/01/mortality-risk-for-police-and.html

Mortality National Average at Work, ALL Occupations 3.5

Career Firefighters 11.1
California Police Officers and Sheriffs 4.9

Commercial Fishers 127.3
Logging Workers 104.0
Airline Pilots and Flight Engineers 56.1
Refuse & Recyclable Material Workers 36.4
Roofers 34.1
Structural Iron and Steel Workers 30.3
Recyclable Material Merchant Wholesalers 28.4
Helpers, Construction Trades 26.8
Farmers and Ranchers 26.1
Driver/Sales Workers & Truck Drivers 24.5
Taxi Drivers and Chauffeurs 19.7
Electrical Powerline Workers 19.5
Drinking Places (Alcoholic Beverages) 18.0
Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product manufacturing 17.5
Grounds Maintenance Workers 16.9
Maintenance & Repair Workers, General 15.8
Construction Laborers 15.7
Landscaping Services 15.6
Mining, Quarrying, and Oil & Gas Extraction 15.2
Construction Equipment Operators 12.1

Firefighters likely like to keep that false perception going for as long as they can.

We can get some Canadian stats as well, I am sure that should be similar.

We could also get some data from WorkSafeBC that would provide similar numbers, including numbers for municipal workers specifically.

BTW, those are number of on the job deaths per year per 100,000 full time workers

gop2015.. wonder how many lives those landscaping guys have saved ? or anyone else on that list of yours ?

Gop2015. Wouldn’t it be funny if the fire fighters refused to work overtime and you had a fire at your house.. And a guy with a lawn mower shows up to help.. Not positive but pretty sure you wouldn’t like it much. But would guarentee you would be on here complaining about the city lousy job keeping our fire halls fully staffed.

gopg2015, thanks for posting those statistics!

I’m not sure why anybody would respond negatively to your statistics, but what with your post having a negative score, it would appear that some people just don’t like the TRUTH!!

Again, thanks for posting!

Those statistics mean nothing as the original post is about our garbage rates going up.. I got way off topic myself..

So returning to the garbage issue.. We are being gouged again and it sucks.

Make up your mind whether you want to talk about a risky job or a job which may save people’s lives.

You want to those who are first responders to get pay equal wages/salaries? Then let us include paramedics, ambulance attendants, first aid attendants, nurse practitioners, etc. None of them get the same base pay as firefighters. Many of them have superior medical knowledge and skills to give life sustaining treatment and make triage decisions.

These days there are several first responders sent to various sites which might have individuals with trauma injuries. In some cases, firefighters may be required, but in most cases an individual has to be assessed for potential injuries, I would prefer to have someone with more medical/triage knowledge and skills than a firefighter.

theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/a-nation-of-100000-firefighters/article13647608

from an article in 2013 G&M

“Everyone loves firefighters. They save lives. They are strong and competent. They look good on calendars. People are always happy when they show up.

“But municipalities do not love firefighters. Across Canada, towns and cities are getting hosed by the skyrocketing costs of their fire departments. Thanks to arbitration settlements, your firefighters are the best paid (and possibly the most underworked) guys in town.

“Firefighters have been getting raises that are twice as high what other
public sector workers have been getting, at a time when municipalities are strapped for funds and raises are just a memory for most of us.”

This is not a PG problem, it is a national problem, a problem which the USA does not yet have.

A family member is a firefighter in a large US city. They are amazed at the salaries they get in PG, almost twice as much for the same experience level.