Wilson Square Market Moves to Pine Centre
Prince George, B.C. – The members of the Wilson Square Community Market Association remain uninterested in joining with the Prince George Farmers Market Association to operate under the City’s public market concept proposed for the Sixth Avenue-Seventh Avenue-Veterans Plaza area and say they will not be forced there. Instead the Wilson Square Association has come up with a new plan.
The association has announced that it will be operating for the 2016 season outside at Pine Centre, in the northwest corner of the centre’s parking lot beside the BC Government Liquor Store.
The association says the new location has an expanded vendor area and the association will be able to accommodate more vendors for the coming season. Interested vendors are invited to send an email to the association at WSCommunityMarket@gmail.com First day of the market will be on Saturday, April 30th.
In March, 2015, following a lengthy council meeting which heard from both associations, City Council voted to give the Wilson Square vendors one more year, the 2015 season, to market their wares in front of the courthouse at Third and George. However, Mayor Lyn Hall had stated that it was his wish “we ride the momentum of the Canada Winter Games” to attract people downtown with the establishment of a single market.
Councilor Terri McConnachie commented that “you can’t force active participation where it doesn’t exist” and said forcing the city concept on both groups would be like “forcing someone to live with their ex-husband.” Councilor Jillian Merrick said she thought “the concept (of a public market) is great, but also added “I respect each group’s right to self determination.”
Mayor Hall also said that the two market groups would have to resolve their problems because the City was not interested in mediating their dispute. He said at the time “We have two groups that can’t get along for whatever reason,” and added “we can’t go through this year after year, we can’t mediate it so don’t ask us to mediate. Because if we’re here next year it won’t be as pleasant as this.”
The Wilson Square Association has decided to leave the courthouse location at
Asked for his reaction to the Wilson Square decision Mayor Lyn Hall says “we would have liked the Wilson Square Market to have come down to the location that administration had proposed, which was in front of City Hall, but you certainly understand that the decision to take the market where they want is absolutely theirs, but we would have liked to have them at City Hall.”
“We know that they certainly wanted to run their own market and we thought that administration had worked with them to see if they would be interested in bringing their own market down in front of City Hall, but as I say it’s entirely up to them, it’s their decision.”
Hall says he at least is pleased that council doesn’t find itself in the position of a year ago when it was thrown into the position of mediator in the difference of opinion between the two market associations. “Ya I think a year ago when we had discussed this at council we were not wanting to be involved in a mediation and we asked the groups if they could go away and try to resolve whatever the issues were. I’m pleased that Wilson Square found a new location that they think will better suit their needs at Pine Centre. That’s great. We didn’t want to have to mediate any kind of resolution.”
Mayor Hall says he will still be inviting interested parties to conduct activities in the Veteran’s Square area. “We’ve always indicated to groups that if you’re wanting to use the front lawn at City Hall by all means. So we’ve seen in the past where Downtown Prince George put on Summerfest and that was a great success where you have small vendors from all over the city participating on the front lawn of City Hall. And we had closed down Seventh and Patricia and the Canfor Breakfast we held there, so that area is available for folks to use. All they have to do is get in touch with Development Services.”
Hall also concurs with the idea that the more events we have going on in the city, no matter in different locations, the better it is. “I agree with that and I think, we were just trying to carry on with the momentum that started in the (Canada Games) plaza and in other areas of the community and by all means if organizations are wanting to do things in other areas, all the better for the community.”
“It just was one of those things where we wanted to make sure we carried on with the momentum. The plaza is a great place, the front lawn of City Hall is a great place, but there’s other locations throughout the city that are certainly going to fit the bill.”
Comments
Petty grievances.
Makes no sense, there should be ONE farmer’s market, in ONE location.
Even less convenient for the consumer, now two locations, not within walking distance.
Say, is the market not hoping to attract consumers, aka people with money who will buy your product?
Dumb.
metalman.
pretty sad that we live in a free world where if two groups want to have separate markets they can, sorry if its not convenient for you.
You know S’Tom, I don’t go to either of the markets, so even if they both disappear it won’t inconvenience me in any way.
Just saying that it would be better for both factions and their many loyal customers to band together.
Ever hear the phrase “together we are stronger” ?
metalman.
@ “metalman”
first things first… we know who made your post. it is listed at the top, you do not need to remind us at the bottom of your irrelevant post.
second you state “I don’t go to either of the markets, so even if they both disappear it won’t inconvenience me in any way”
… you admit that you have no connection to either of the sides discussed… why do you feel your opinion is relevant in the conversation? For the most part, people don’t involve themselves in conversations that do not pertain to them… so why do you? is it simply another avenue to see your name in “print”???
lets keep this conversation focused on those who are involved.
So if all “like” businesses should join together and be one, why do we have Walmart and Superstore in this city?
Why do we have Nancy O’s and the Copper Pig downtown?
Why do we have Tim Horton’s and Starbucks?
Why do Ford and Chevy both exist?
We could go on like this all night!
Come on, that is ridiculous. This city is big enough to support diversity. The opportunity by having more than one market is huge. More options for customers, vendors, small business, services etc.
PG is big enough to support both markets, people can and will choose. Time to stop thinking so small and realize PG has more to offer than one market, one time a week. Do you know that the University and CNC both have farmers’ markets, should they close those and join the “one” downtown market Saturdays?
Marketlover: What about the Free Press? The Free Press and the PG Citizen had the same product. What happened? one disappeared. All the businesses that you are naming have a different product. Walmart and Superstore have similarities but are different. Restaurants are restaurants but they all offer a different menu, a different atmosphere. Car dealerships all offers cars but again, they offer different brand, different options. Both markets are offering the same things: free range eggs are free range eggs, bannock are bannock, fresh vegetable are fresh vegetable and so on. Same product. Your comparison is therefore very week.However, I agree that competition is good, and, at the end of the day, the client will choose. But too much proximity is not good for identical business. The Wilson Square Market will probably do very good at Pine Center and I am happy for them. CNC and the University are doing good as well, both offering the same products but on different days and with a reasonable distance between them. Long life to all the Markets in PG, may they all be in their own area of town.
did you ever consider that maybe one side has set conditions upon which the other side can not tolerate forcing the two markets to operate separate?
This is totally ridiculous. Petty, stupid vendors that only take their own interests into mind. These markets have to be kept in one location. Many people walk/bike to the farmers market on the weekend when it is downtown. I hope that the Wilson Square Community Market Association dies a quick death and any reputable vendors from that group join in with the other farmers market downtown.
Summit, we live in a free country. When the Homework building burned downtown, they moved to the mall. No one got angry at them.
Sadly, whatever happened between the markets is their business. Why do we need to focus on the drama? The article above said it all.
“Councilor Terri McConnachie commented that “you can’t force active participation where it doesn’t exist” and said forcing the city concept on both groups would be like “forcing someone to live with their ex-husband.” ”
It is sad to think that these small business owners are not being given the right to make their own decisions. They work hard and invest their energy and passion, wouldn’t we all just want the best for everyone involved?
This is a great opportunity for customers, vendors and the City of PG.
Pine Centre is a much better location for there is plenty of parking there. I never to to the other one due to lack of parking
I believe they are taking over parking spaces at the time of the market. The market will generate more parking requirement if it is successful. Let us see if there will continue to be no parking problems on Saturdays.
Summit;
Having the market at Pine Center will not only enable the surrounding residents to walk to a market closer to them now, but Pine Center gets a whole lot more traffic flow on Saturdays than the downtown does.
People can still walk/bike to both – isn’t the push on for us to get more exercise to stay healthy?
The difficulty of finding a parking spot is eliminated and the market can spread out and grow now.
Prince George is a large enough city to support two markets and I don’t think they have to be together. Why force the amalgamation of two entities that just don’t see eye to eye?
Give it a chance!
Exactly who or what is “forcing” the two groups to amalgamate?
Pine Centre parking lot may well be a superior location, I don’t know, the market folks will find out soon enough.
metalman.
This is ridiculous. Why do they hate each other so much? in front of city hall is the ideal spot, but instead they want to be at pine centre? makes no sense.
phje:
I am part of the Prince George Farmers’ Market and I can assure you that we do not hate the Wilson Square people. Like you, we are wondering why they hate us so much. We have said time and time again and I will say it again: the Wilson Square people were invited to join us on many occasions. We did everything we could to please them. As the City suggested, we met with the Wilson Square people a few times, we had civilized conversations but we never succeeded in convincing them to join us. A agree with a lot of the comments here ; the City is large enough to have more than one market. But, I honestly believe that having 2 markets in the same area, few blocks away from each other, is not the best option. Since we do operate the exact same kind of business, we need to work together or to have more distance between us. I am a strong believer in the City Market Place project and I am very sorry that Wilson Square will not be a part of it. I wish them the best in their new location and if, for any reasons, they wish to revise their decision in a month or in a year, they will be welcome to join us downtown. We don’t hate them. Each and everyone of them are missed and our door is wide open.
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks”
So no one running the PGFMA ever went to WSCM and took photos of vendors even when they were asked not to? The fire marshall, bylaw enforcement, RCMP, environmental health, and sheriffs department just ‘happened’ to show up week after week at Wilson square after they separated from the PGFMA for no reason whatsoever? Wow, that’s a huge coincidence. That’s amazingly bad luck for WSCM huh? Nope, no reason for those WSCM people to dislike the PGFMA and it’s practices at all. Or threatening vendors – if they tried to make more money by vending anywhere else other than PGFMA – that they would be kicked out? The 23 vendors who were there just disappeared somehow? That is amazing. Suing volunteers of an organization? Really? A volunteer? That’s kinda douchey. Why would people want to be separate from that? That’s nuts. A Facebook page called the ‘The Wilson Square Non Market Page’ happened spontaneously? I don’t know about you, but someone seems to be trying to make the PGFMA look bad. They better look into that.
p.s. I’m not vendor, I just happen to be paying attention to this topic as a customer of vendors at both markets. It’s amazing what you can see and hear when people don’t notice that you’re there and can hear and see them.
Rustyblonde, it seems like you are repeating word for word the old WSCM crap. As a visitors of both markets, I heard this story over and over again. Almost each vendor had its own version of the story, but always the blame was on the other market. This is actually the reason why I stopped visiting WSCM. I became tired. By the way, I was there once when someone from the Farmers’ Market came to visit a pal. I couldn’t believe how rude the WS people were ; screaming and gesturing in a very offensive and disrespectful manner. It seems to me the other Market people were not at all welcome at Wilson Square. Douchey you said?
phje;
There is a lot more to this issue than the general public is privy to.
This is the best outcome on this matter and both markets will thrive.
mama;
I am curious. As I said, I am part of the Farmers’ Market and honestly, the PGFMA never did anything wrong. We were the victim in that whole story and recently the court has recognized that and awarded damages to the PGFMA. So please, if there is more to this issue than the general public is privy to, tell me what it is once and for all.
Once the PAC is under construction it is going to get very busy there! Parking will be minimal. In any case, I am more than willing to visit both markets in different locations. No problem.
The City sent a delegation to Ottawa to talk about infrastructure funding. I am not holding my breath but somehow I have the feeling that the one-third federal funding for a PAC may now have assumed a higher priority, since the Arts were neglected as was Infrastructure. Now a new approach may put the two together federally! The City will come up with one third and the province may have to step up too. Voila, a PAC after all! Let’s face it, the issue was declared to be a priority by the City and will get done, later or sooner!
Had the City worked with the Wilson Square people they would have stayed where they were. The two locations downtown were close enough, that it was no problem going to both to them. At least when they were downtown they shared customers. Now with Wilson Square at Pine Centre, I think the downtown market might lose a little business.
In any event the Wilson Square market location at Third and George, was a good draw to get some people into that area, and while they were their they would support some of the downtown business. So, there will be a loss to some business’s in the downtown.
Perhaps they can get things organized at a later date.
Prince George. Don’t hold your breath for a PAC to be under construction. Most people in this town are opposed to the PAC so you have a big PR job ahead of you.
I agree there are a lot of people who disagree with a PAC now or in the near future…
but I think we will find a lot of supporters for this on council. and our opinions will count about as much as everything else they have done since getting elected.
My opinion anyways….if you don’t agree, that is cool…isn’t a free country wonderful.
and now my little trolls will start hitting the down thumb button…
Sounds fantastic to me! Don’t like going downtown but will definitely be going to Pine Centre more often now to see what’s for sale at this market. Can’t wait!
BLM
I think one needs to clarify. The PGFMA took one of their own volunteers to court. A volunteer who was elected in by the membership of the PGFMA. The awarded damages were against one of their own volunteers when the PGFMA sued that volunteer.
I suggest you read the court transcripts as WSCM was not named and in no way involved.
One needs to be careful what they say, there is enough proof in court transcripts to prove your statement is incorrect.
More sensationalism Mr Harkins not to mention most of your article is from last year…. I once again will try to clarify some of your statements. I write this not hiding behind a username.
There was no fight over the space at the Courthouse. The PGFMA held a business licence at that location for 20 years. At the time of the presentation to City Hall the PGFMA had a business licence for the 2015 season which was not recognized and a road closure was granted to the Wilson Square Group. The previous year the City gave the Wilson Square group a non profit licence and they set up at the Courthouse in the middle of the Farmers Market … interesting. So who really created this so called conflict? WSCM did not have the required licence to operate a Market yet were allowed to right in the middle of an existing Market run by the PGFMA. This statement can be supported with documents obtained from the City.
The Wilson Square Market was formed by board members of the PGFMA while they were running the Market. Read the BC Society Act and see if this is a legal act. It can also be shown by documents obtained under the freedom of information act that they used PGFMA documents to obtain their road closure. Yes the President at that time now heads up the WSCM.
The PGFMA was mentioned as going to council in a dispute over the Courthouse. The fact is the City asked the PGFMA to attend the meeting and made a presentation backing the proposal of the City planning. Then having to listen to the fallout later following the Council discussion. The video is still online from last year watch it. The PGFMA did not ask for mediation as they held the business licence. Unfortunately, it was not respected by the City Council when they made their decision. I wonder how other business owners would react to such an act by our City Council.
The Prince George Farmers Market remains committed to the Downtown, it business and it customers. I feel it will continue to work with the City and other organizations for the betterment of downtown. It has been a part of the community for 21 years and will hopefully continue to prosper.
It is unfortunate that personal egos stand in the way of the creation of something that may have been a go to event each Saturday. They (WSCM) have now made a decision and I wish them the best of luck. This will at least erase the confusion amongst customers regarding the Farmers Market having distance between the two Markets and not having the WSCM in the space occupied by the PGFMA for 20 years. It also shows once and for all which market was working in the best interests of the DBIA and the City of Prince George.
There is only one registered Farmers Market in Prince George and that is the PGFMA. Many call themselves one but are not associated with the BC Farmers Market Association.
The Public Market concept wasn’t about amalgamation but being part of a larger Public Market open to various Community Groups. Each would still maintain their individuality but offer a larger variety to their customers .
It was a pleasure to meet the thousands of customers each Saturday over the past few years and be a part of a great organization. As a downtown resident I worked towards the end goal of promoting the Downtown, the City of Prince George and the Farmers Market for the benefit of all.
Most will never understand what went on behind the scenes nor do they want to. All I ask is that you come and enjoy what the vendors bring to you each week, have a visit with a friend o, make a new one, walk your dog and enjoy those special moments with your children each Saturday.
Thank you vendors, customers downtown businesses and members of City Hall.
Thank you for the opportunity to meet and work with you all over the years.
Randall M Stasiuk
Past President – PGFMA
I could have written much more and provided more insight. The media never was interested in the real story and 95% of readers and residents really don’t care. I await your comments ….and as I said I am not hiding behind a username … will you do the same?
More sensationalism …. I once again will try to clarify some of your statements. I write this not hiding behind a username.
There was no fight over the space at the Courthouse. The PGFMA held a business licence at that location for 20 years. At the time of the presentation to City Hall the PGFMA had a business licence for the 2015 season which was not recognized and a road closure was granted to the Wilson Square Group. The previous year the City gave the Wilson Square group a non profit licence and they set up at the Courthouse in the middle of the Farmers Market … interesting. So who really created this so called conflict? WSCM did not have the required licence to operate a Market yet were allowed to right in the middle of an existing Market run by the PGFMA. This statement can be supported with documents obtained from the City.
The Wilson Square Market was formed by board members of the PGFMA while they were running the Market. Read the BC Society Act and see if this is a legal act. It can also be shown by documents obtained under the freedom of information act that they used PGFMA documents to obtain their road closure. Yes the President at that time now heads up the WSCM.
The PGFMA was mentioned as going to council in a dispute over the Courthouse. The fact is the City asked the PGFMA to attend the meeting and made a presentation backing the proposal of the City planning. Then having to listen to the fallout later ifollowing the Council discussion. The video is still online from last year watch it. The PGFMA did not ask for mediation as they held the business licence. Unfortunately, it was was not honored. I wonder how other business owners would react to such an act by our City Council
The Prince George Farmers Market remains committed to the Downtown, it business and it customers. I feel it will continue to work with the City and other organizations for the betterment of downtown. It has been a part of the community for 21 years and will hopefuly continue to grow.
It is unfortunate that personal egos stand in the way of the creation of something that may have been a go to event each Saturday. They have now made a decision and I wish them the best of luck. This will at least erase the confusion amongst customers regarding the Farmers Market. There is only one registerd Farmers Market in Prince George and that is the PGFMA. Many call themselves one but are not associated with the BC Farmers Market Association
Thie Public Market concept wasn’t about amalgamation but being part of a larger Public Market open to various Community Groups. Each would still maintain their individuality but offer a larger variety to their customers .
It was a pleasure to meet the thousands of customers over the past few years and be a part of a great organization. As a downtown resident I worked towards the end goal of promoting the Downtown, the City of Prince George and the Farmers Market for the benefit of all.
Most will never understand what went on behind the scenes nor do they want to. All I ask is that you come and enjoy what the vendors bring to you each week, have a visit with a friend o, make a new one, walk your dog and enjoy those specila moments with your children each Saturday.
Thank you vendors, customers downtown businesses and members of City Hall. It has been a pleasure to meet and work with you all oer the years.
Randall M Stasiuk
Past President – PGFMA
Well, once again the facts are muddled, just because you believe it, it doesn’t make it true.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, and two statements (why 2?) doesn’t make it true.
The timeline on Mr. Stasiuk’s two statements is not accurate. This is a time to let go, you wanted the WSCM to leave 3rd Ave and they have, so why are you even commenting on this story?
Time for both organizations to put to rest all the crap and just move on. Best of luck to both organizations.
This is dumb. Once again, looks like the City failed to do right by its citizens. The City is at the root of this mess and now they don’t want to deal with their lack of foresight. Hall said he doesn’t want to mediate? Grow a pair! Your job it to make sure the best interests of the the people are being met.
The city staff did an amazing job coming up with a “community market” plan that encompassed a safe way to close streets to vehicle traffic every Saturday. My hat is off to them, job well done.
I for one, would not want city staff wasting tax payers dollars on settle disputes between non-profit organisations.
Habitat for Humanity, SPCA, and now this. For a small city, Prince George sure has some big egos who sure don’t seem to care much for their client base. I don’t care who did what to who; I care about having a fantastic market for all of us. What a sad and ridiculous outcome.
Yes, Mayor Lyn Hall has lost my vote.
I couldn’t agree with Eye Spy more. The city completely blew it on this issue. The Winter Games was a one-off event. The market preceded it and it would have continued on in two locations which had become an unanticipated boon for the downtown. To try and recreate the Winter Games vibe in such a heavy-handed fashion with an apparently inflexible ultimatum messed it up for everyone.
I find it very troubling that the city is being blamed for this fiasco.
They did a remarkable job of creating a community market plan, taking into account factors of community planning that foster a well rounded, safe, vibrant community.
I totally agree, Duncanpg. The project failed last year because of a bad (and uninformed) decision made by City Council. I am glad the administration didn’t let go and brought back the Public Market project this year. With time, the Public Market place can become a fantastic gathering place for the people of our community. The Market Place project is definitely a step forward for downtown revitalization.
Sharing the parking lot with the liquor store??Is that not the lot where there is one way in and out? On a Saturday morning?? Yikes!!
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