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October 27, 2017 8:19 pm

The Case Against Site C

Monday, November 14, 2016 @ 5:55 AM

Prince George, B.C. – While construction of the Site C dam  continues, so does the battle  to stop the project.

This evening,   a number of organizations opposing the  project will be holding a  session at UNBC ( room  7-212) at  6:30.

The dam will require the flooding of 5,550 hectares of land, land which local farmers and First Nations say can produce  enough  fruit and vegetables to sustain  a million people.

First Nations also  say the  flooding  will  negatively impact their  traditional harvest of Bull Trout, Moose, berries and medicinal plants.

Those  who oppose the  project  warn the  taxpayers of B.C.   “will be on the hook for the province’s largest  environmental and economic catastrophe of the 21st century.”

This evening’s session  is among the last of  a list of list of nine  planned meetings  that have taken place  across the Province.   A similar session is set for tomorrow in Quesnel, and  in Williams Lake on Wednesday.

There is a cost to  attend the session, but it is by donation and  the proceeds will  go towards supporting the Treaty 8 First Nations’ legal challenges to the Site C dam.


Harvesting a red listed fish? I didn’t know that still happened.

….can produce enough fruit and vegetables to sustain a million people.’
I think it would behoove the writer to complement this outrageous statement with actual production figures from the Ministry of agriculture.
Before the tides foundation and their ilk changed the description of these lands to ‘pristine’ farmland, anyone who has lived in that area will tell you it has been subsistence farming at best since the first homesteader arrived..

To hear most farmers tell it most farming anywhere is ‘subsistence farming’. Now the question is whether it’s that way because the price they can get for their product is less than it costs to produce it, or because the land itself won’t grow anything?

I know a fellow who was involved in surveying that whole area years ago, and he maintains that the valley is very fertile and it would be an enormous mistake to ever flood it. Furthermore, there seems to be considerable question as to whether or not BC actually ‘needs’ the power Site C will generate, or whether it’s all destined for export. Looking at the number of industries we’ve lost, and those we’re likely to lose in coming years due to the MPB devastation, it’s hard to make a case for a hugely expanded ‘need’ in our domestic market.

What are the effects going to be on the export price of power when Site C comes online? Are we witnessing another LNG fantasy here, that this is going to be another panacea that solves all our economic problems? And where has there ever been any proposal from any of the current Parties that want to govern us to provide us with LOWER cost electric power when Site C comes on line? As I see it, building Site C will actually raise the cost of hydro to US, and a whole host of other things as well through the inflation its construction will bring on. Having such a project may be all to the well and good for short term employment, but just how many times over do we want to pay for it?

    So are you saying the existing power projects where never needed?

    Rising power prices, so IPP’s and inefficient, costly, environmental disruptive wind farms and their very expensive output are not increasing power cost?

    Hydro being used as a piggy bank has not increased costs?

    Hey what about the covering of extremely productive lower mainland farm with houses, malls and parking lots.

    Take a look at a map comparing the site c flooded land with the whole Peace area.

    BC load is not decreasing, it is increasing.

    Berries, so that is the only area to pick berries?

    Want the least disruption to the environment, build 4th generation nuclear. Look it up.

      Demand for bchydro electricity has been steadily falling for the last ten years . Cost of wind turbines and the energy they provide has been falling since since the first ones were built and will continue with each new generation being built . Transition cost for wind turbine is also a great deal less because of proximity . The steady rise of net zero housing in bc is also on the rise in a dramatic way . They use 90 % less energy than junk houses most builders build . Nuclear is the most expensive and most dangerous form of extreme energy that there is . No insurance company in the world will risk their shareholders money insuring even one of them . Hey mutt , how’s your nuclear power plant doing ? Any leaks today ? Are you saving money on it or are you just operating it out of ideology ?

    So the surveyor was an agricultural expert? He could compare the farm income per hectare to that of the Fraser Valley?

    Obviously he did not!!!

Here’s the problem.

Remember when we were all happily buying all that cheap consumer goods from China, and then before we knew it we were buying everything from China – but they were buying hardly anything from us. It was a trade deficit. So, we gave China good old Canadian dollars for that junk. I.E., they bought up our debt.

So guess what the Chinese want to spend their money on. Canadian real estate – BC in particular. And the projections are up to a million plan on relocating to BC and they have plenty of Canadian debt to trade for it.

And I remember Christy Clark clearly saying, they expect the population to grow by a million, and they need the power for future population growth.

At least this invasion was relatively bloodless.

So, Marc Eliesen; former CEO of BC Hydro publically states; “BC ratepayers will face a devastating increase in their electricity bills, if the Site C dam is built, and, he puts the increase, “Anywhere between 30 and 40 per cent over the next three years.” He also accused Hydro of adopting a price structure that results in everyday British Columbians subsidizing heavy power users. He said, “Whether it’s mining, or proposed LNG plants, or anything of that nature, they’re not paying their fair share.”

ht tp://energeticcity.ca/2015/08/former-bc-hydro-ceo-critical-of-site-c-project/

Then the Chair of the Site C Review Panel; Harry Swain says this about Site C; “The B.C. government was wrong to approve construction of the $8.8-billion Site C dam project without an independent examination of cost and need, says the head of the joint review panel that spent nine months evaluating the environmental impact of the proposal.”

www .theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/head-of-review-panel-repeats-call-for-delay-to-bc-hydros-site-c/article23399470/

ht tp://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/03/19/Site-C-Review-Panel-Ignored/

That’s OK, the people posting to this news blog site know more about BC Hydro and Site C than these two experts anyway. And they will continue to support someone with a high school education, who thinks she knows more about BC Hydro and Site C as well… We have our own Donald Trump crowd up here, it would seem.

    Interesting people keep going after Christy Clark over her lack of a post-secondary degree.

    The same people despised Stephen Harper in spite of him having a Masters Degree in Economics.

    So what exactly is it you want in a leader. The current Prime Minister has a BA in literature – so does the guy that drove me to the airport – and his work experience is a school teacher at the very PRIVATE West Gray Academy – and you’re okay with him.

    Fact is, being a leader, requires the ability to inspire people to follow you. Education is not really all that important when you’re trying to win a popularity contest (election). Educated people can always be hired. The ability to inspire is not easily taught. And like it or not, Christy Clark can inspire people, as can Justin Trudeau, as can Donald Trump, as did Obama, as didn’t – Hilary. Sucks, but that’s the way it works.

    “Fact is, being a leader, requires the ability to inspire people to follow you”

    That depends. Mahatma Gandhi would be a possible example of such a leader.

    Trump, and those like him, is a “leader” who scans the population, sees what a significant number are thinking, picks up those mindsets, creates the message and the “in your face” attitudes of that large group and places himself in front of that group and says “follow me, I can fix the world.”

    The people are the inspiration. A good “leader” simply places himself in charge of those people.

      Impossible for a leader of a democracy to place himself (or herself) in charge of any people without inspiring them to vote for him (or her). Even your beloved Trudeau had to go out and woo the voter – find out what they wanted and design the message to that crowd – you are saying he is exactly like Trump?

David Suzuki foundation, it is about time he paid back all the money he collected off of the tax payers.

BeingHuman –we have our own trump crowd here. Have to agree with you 100% on this one. Christy has gone to England now to hook up with Gordo to submit her new job application.

I have been to the area that will be flooded and you can rest assured that this valley is prime farm land, and can grow a variety of fruit and vegetables. Root and otherwise. To suggest that this is not so, is to live in denial.

Furthermore, there is a humungous amount of information to show that the power from Site C is not needed at this time and may never be needed, however certain people (like seamutt) keep beating the BC Government, BC Hydro, drum. I suspect he works for one or the other.

Hydro is billions of dollars in debt, and as a Government entity is a Provincial embarrassment. They need to shake up Hydro’s upper management, as it seems they are incapable of doing anything other that what the Government dictates, and to send incoherent messages on facebook.

We need a responsible Government, and responsible management of Hydro, and we need to stop this silly Site C venture, and get back to the basics. Its time we quit building BS projects for no other reason than to get the Government of the day elected.

Just to put things into perspective: British Columbia has roughly 3 1/2 times the area of that of Germany, Poland or France. We have a lot of land even after flooding some hectares. A lot, especially as we have only a small fraction of the population that the above mentioned countries have to accommodate.

    The Prince George TSA is the size of Germany.

    I had put the value of the crops harvested from the Peace on this site at one of the previous times this discussion was had. If I recall correctly, the crop value of small 4 acre farms in the GVRD was the highest value in BC and averaged at least 10 fold that of the Peace.

    I suggested slowing down the population growth in the lower mainland and moving some of the service and industrial industries up to the northern part of the province, including the Peace.

    The Peace is good for wheat and similar crops. Almost everything else has to be grown under glass/plastic to be competitive.

    Cheaper to move it from the south of the US border than the north.

Think about the perspective of people that have to live beside a large body of water. Do you not think that it could change the weather pattern in the area? I don’t no when people will wake up and realize that they are dealing with a very corrupt government that we have in BC. Many power suppliers in the US are fighting like hell to keep clean energy like solar from cutting in on their utility profit margins.

    The large body of water comment makes sense. When I lived in Mackenzie the long time residents felt the winters became milder after the flooding for the dam. So yes, we’ll likely see a change in climate.

    Probably another negative that has happened, is Trump’s victory. He’s made no bones about it – coal is back. He has also said he wants the US to be a net energy exporter. So it’s quite possible all the naysayers are correct.

    But you all forget the most important point. POLITICIANS ONLY LOOK 4 YEARS AHEAD. Site C is providing jobs – NOW. The government wants to be reelected – NOW.

    Until we change that fact, short sightness will always be the order of the day whether the politician be left-wing or right-wing.

    They are fighting and losing . Many are winning because solar is getting cheaper and you can set your clock to it . The big push at the moment is to develop longer lasting panels . Solar city is going glass , really tough glass . If you want to watch the fight . SolarIndustryMag.com . Florida solar just won big against their extremely vicious untility commission . They are also dead set against ,more , cheaper , free delivery daily (no transmission costs ) more reliable energy . With the new powerwall 2.0 people can just cut the cord for $5500.00 if utilities don’t play nice .

Its easy to be righteous when its someone else’s land that is being flooded.

People seem to forget that this is supposed to be a free and democratic Country,.

The Government has no right to force people off their land unless they can make a case that it is for the greater good. The Government cannot make that case, and that’s why they did not allow this issue to go before the BCUC. Instead they set up a different commission, which in itself could not make a case for Site C.

So lets quit telling tall tales, about the need for Site C. Most of the so called facts put out by the Government and Hydro are nothing more than Voo Doo economics and cannot stand up under close scrutiny.

A few strategically placed natural gas generating plants would produce the same amount of electricity and would not cause any grief to anyone. These plants would serve us well for the next 30-40 years and if necessary we could build more.

Site C is a really bad joke.

Surely if we can build polluting LNG plants to export natural gas to other Countries so they can build natural gas generating plants, we can build plants here in BC . We could generate the construction jobs, and then have the long term (operating) jobs also.

    The most rapidly rising jobs numbers in all the energy fields is over welmingly in the renewables . The tiny little numbers of jobs generated by siteC are a joke in comparison and they are not permanent. The real money isn’t in the wages . It’s in the concrete ,hardware , transmission , etc .

Regardless of whether you are for or against this project, they are pushing ahead even though there are a number of court cases still in progress. What happens if the court cases are successful? Why not slow things down a bit and wait for the court process to be completed.

    over in the Middle East they call it building facts on the ground . It’s a rightwing thing . All of christys pages are right wing . Nice to see her lawyers getting laughed out of the Supreme Court of canada last week . Sadly a whole generation of students and us tax payer will be paying the price . Maybe the supremes will have to have a say on siteC as well .

All BC Hydro need to do to alleviate this with the farmers and first nations is to “sweeten the pot”. Everyone has their price.

    Not everyone, some people cannot be bought.

      A lot of them sure can! Go to Fort St. John and take a look at all of the fully loaded cars and trucks being driven by local unemployed First Nations men and women!

      A few years ago, I went to Fort St. John and I was amazed at the huge numbers of brand new cars and trucks overflowing the local auto dealers lots, with row upon row of vehicles parked in fields and empty lots near their dealerships. I asked a few local residents about what was up and was told that the local First Nations people were all about to receive another large cheque from the government, something to the tune of $50,000.00 per man, woman and child. Apparently this wasn’t the first round of cheques to be handed out!

“The $8.8-billion Site C dam has run into a wall of opposition from scientists and legal scholars as well. More than 250 of them from across Canada have signed a “statement of concern” about the regulatory review of the project on the Peace River in northeastern B.C.” But then again, what does this BC Lib/Con Government care about what science has to say about Site C?

www .straight.com/news/703556/more-250-canadian-scientists-and-professors-sign-letter-objecting-site-c-dam-approval

As for all those outstanding court cases, we also have a provincial government that seems to think it is above the law, and when they eventually lose these court cases (because they are so good at losing them lately), we as taxpayers will be on the hook to pay for the damages already being incurred to First Nations and settlers in the area. Christy Clark will leave us a legacy alright, and it’s going to be a very expensive legacy!

Build it! They will come!!!

    “Build it and they will come!!!”

    They built a border control facility at the airport more than a decade ago for processing international flights, it has never been used. “In 2012- Prince George Airport’s goal was to be a North American cargo gateway and distribution centre to and from Asia with up to 15,000 fuel stop landings per year and to be a passenger hub to North America and the world by 2020. Since 2007 they have invested over $36 Million into the airport runway expansion, a refueling depot, and the global logistics park.

    We built it all, and it is just sitting there collecting cobwebs, so when is all those 15,000 a year international cargo jets going to be landing? LMAO!!!

    Site C will be the same, as alternative fuels take over the energy market, we will have nowhere to sell our surplus electricity to, Site C just another white elephant for the BC Liberals.

Lots of irrational rhetoric, oh well.

Ataloss beats the drum on solar but never describes his system. What system? Guess he found the cost and RIO and makes no sense especially at this latitude.

Coal generation and nuclear generation are being built all over the world and no end in sight. Wind ya right, didn’t work out so well for South Australia.

Hydro is run by the government of the day and is dictated to by the government so just how does hydro management go against their boss.

4th generation nuclear is very safe. China and others are developing molten salt nuclear and once developed very cheap power rivalling hydro electric which is the cheapest. Then say goodbye to very inefficient costly and environmentally destructive wind and solar.

    Why do you think my system is any of your business? I also use a couple of other renewables and they are not any of your business either . All you need to know is that I am very warm , dry , and , the whole place is lit up even when the grid goes down for days . Again . I’m not your mother . You’re going to have to figure out how it’s done on your own .

This is from 2014, just a quick search, have a look at China

ht tp://www.tsp-data-portal.org/TOP-20-Generation#tspQvChart

Oh my

ht tp://www.nei.org/Knowledge-Center/Nuclear-Statistics/World-Statistics

The way you go against your boss is a matter of principle,. If you disagree with what is being done and how it is being done, you resign publically and state your case.

Problem is all the people who work for Government entities are not necessarily principled and most politicians, who are supposed to represent us, would not dare say a word against Site C. Heaven forbid that they should stand up and take a position on a controversial project.

Why do we keep electing politicians who continue to tow the party line, and have a serious lack of intestinal fortitude.

Has BC Hydro ever been paid for the$300 million for the past power sales to the US?

    No! They lost a court case in the USA which ruled that whoever bought the power there had done so under duress and was no longer responsible. That was the end of it.

      So did someone hold a gun to the person’s head who signed the agreement?

      Oh, wait, I know ….. Trump must have had something to do with that deal. LOL

      Kind of ironic for bc that the survivors of the whole Enron bchydro debacal now run Kindermorgan . Creepy to think this is their hunting ground and we the prey . Bleeting sheeple don’t keep their eye on the ball . So rinse and repeat . Baaaaah .

    You mean we the owners of Bchydro ? No . We haven’t been paid back . It’s on your bill as a soft cost . Does it feel soft ?

Ineresting–Google BC’s LNG Fraud

Palopu says
The way you go against your boss is a matter of principle,. If you disagree with what is being done and how it is being done, you resign publically and state your case.

Ya sure, have you done that?

    Actually I have, and the person that I did it to, is not likely to forget it. It cost me my job, but it sure as hell felt good.

    We are not required by any law (other than the law of survival) to kiss anyone’s butt.

    Weak knee’s doesn’t produce strong walkers.

Not to change the subject, but did you know that in the 19 century, they had made 3 cent nickels? Its true you can take that one to the bank.lol.

    “They” being the USA, not Canada. Extremely Fine quality fetches over US$60 today, that is 200 times the face value.

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