Making the Case for a New Fire Hall
The brass fire pole won’t reappear in a new fire hall should voters agree to build a new facility – images 250News
Prince George, B.C. – In a little over a month from now, voters in Prince George will be asked if they support borrowing up to $15 million dollars to build a new Fire Hall #1. Prince George Fire Rescue Chief, John Iverson is hopeful residents will say yes.
While the public is invited Saturday to tour the old fire hall, and visit the proposed site for the new one , members of the media were taken on a tour today. 
First stop was a look at the ladder truck. It’s a standard piece of equipment, necessary to reach the upper floors of buildings like the office towers in downtown Prince George, but the ladder truck can’t fit inside the existing bay doors at Firehall #1, so it has to be stored at Fire Hall #2 instead.
“This truck is 20 years old and is fairly standard equipment , but it will not fit” says Chief John Iverson “It’s just one of the many things we are trying to manage our resources and provide service.”
The many other things include:
- Cramped spaces, including a physical fitness room that includes a desk and a few chairs for training sessions.
- The dispatch centre , which serves a number of communities throughout the north, is too small for the work it must do.
- The building itself does not meet current standards to ensure it would still be standing should there be a disaster.
- It’s in the flood plain, and during heavy melt or rain events, water makes its way into the bays.
- The ‘tower’ where hoses are dried after use, is made of cinderblock, not in keeping with current standards and other methods are now used to dry hoses.
- The conference room showed just how small it really is, during the recent wildfire emergency. With all the agencies involved in coping with the emergency attending planning and information meetings, representatives packed the room like sardines. The meetings had to be moved to City Hall.
Then there is the matter of response times. Chief Iverson says moving to the proposed site on Massey ( near the YMCA) will cut response times in half for the areas Fire Hall #1 services. Reduced response times means firefighters have a better chance of containing a blaze to the “room of origin” and critical seconds and minutes can be saved when responding to a call that requires medical attention.
( below, Chief Iverson says current building not up to disaster standards)
“The general condition of this building? It’s tired” says Chief John Iverson “The building is 60 years old” says Chief Iverson “It has simply reached the end of its lifespan.”
Should the voters say yes to building a new facility, will Chief Iverson miss the old site? “Not at all.”
Comments
AFter raising all the other taxes on us recently, they now want us to pay for this???
The design and cramped space sounds like it was built for NOW with no thoughts to the future. Of course they should use City Hall when needed. I’m sure there are spaces there not utilized
PG has needed to replace hall one for many years but other elected officials have swept this under the carpet. Many do not know but the dispatch centre for the entire north region (150 Mile to Chetwynd, Terrace to the Alberta Border) which has over 70 Fire Departments, is operated from this building. Touring the hall, that dispatch centre work space is smaller then most waiting rooms at a medical office. Besides this part of the hall, PG Fire Rescue has outgrown the building. I applaud current elected officials for taking this seriously, now it is up to the residents of PG to support PG and area Fire Departments.
I am all for the new fire hall as I think the city has outgrown the current downtown hall. My issue is that my property taxes have been going up every single year for the last 20 years and I only see me paying more in the future. It will get to a point where I will sell my house and buy something in the regional district. I simply can’t afford more property taxes.
I agree; firehall yes; pool absolutely not
That pool needs to be user paid for; period.
Home/property owners are sick and tired of being asked to pay for everything, particularly venues that are used by persons that don’t pay property taxes.
Let the YMCA or some other similar organization, or a combination or organizations like the YMCA build a pool, which the users of said pool will pay for through fees charged by those organizations.
Is the property where the Y is located much higher than downtown where the firehall is now? Would that location not still be in the flood plain?
Excellent question from someone who knows the City a bit better than many.
Here is what PGMap shows:
The 1997 defined floodplain covers 4 of the northeastern ballparks, right up to the Y.
The 20 year floodplain is on the eastern part of the park near the Y. It follows the access road to the ball diamonds.
The 200 year floodplain extends west as far as the two eastern ball diamonds and covers them. It extends to within about 100ft of Massey.
The question is, has the City done any recent or historic boreholes in the proposed building area during spring? If so, will the City share those with us. If not, what are the building design plans which will accommodate the floodplain.
It should also be noted that the existing fire hall is NOT in the 20 year floodplain.
The only area of the center of PG that is in that floodplain is virtually everything east of Queensway. Also included is a small portion on the west side of Queensway at the First Avenue interchange.
Using Google Earth elevation at FH1 is 1866 feet. Elevation at Y is 1882 feet. Only 16′ but means water would have to be near the top of the 2nd floor windows in FH1 before being an impact at the Y.
From the pictures, it looks like they could use some lights as well. :)
I’m pretty sure we’ll be voting yes to the fire hall and I’m also pretty sure there would be more support for it if the City wasn’t lumping it in with the 35 million dollar pool.
15 million seems awfully expensive to me. Of course so did the 60 million for the cop shop but it went ahead.
I support the firehall project…. not so much the pool. closer to no to PAC.
Why does every building that the city maintains reach the end of it’s life after 40-60 years? Police station? Four Seasons? By that standard our house is almost middle aged but with basic care still is in excellent shape and with some improvements better than new.
There are fire-halls in other cities that are well over a century old and still meeting those city’s needs. Some of the reasons mentioned to justify a new hall are are pure bunk. As long as the building is structurally sound modifications can be made to meet current needs for a heck of a lot less than $15 million.
Can a new header be installed and taller door installed for ladder truck?
An addition could be added to house dispatch center and interior space redesigned to accommodate fitness rooms etc.
For the few occasions where bigger conference/meeting space is needed there are plenty of under utilized city owned spaces a stones throw away that would do just fine.
So what if the tower is cinder block. Do it do what it was meant to do-dry hoses?
How often does the area flood? I can’t remember the last time but if they are use flooding as justification at least provide information on the frequency of flood events.
Most houses that are 40-60 years would not meet current building standards either. When dealing with public buildings, there are issues including safety and liability that tip the risk management assessment into replace versus upgrade/repair. When the Aquatic Centre was built, many of the features that would have allowed the building to have a longer and more effective life span were stripped out in order too save money and protect the taxpayer at the time. Often, we make decisions to save for the short run and pay in the long run.
Cinder block construction is a good example of something that does not meet current code but was cheaper to construct. Think earthquake.
Most houses that are 40-60 years would not meet current building standards either. When dealing with public buildings, there are issues including safety and liability that tip the risk management assessment into replace versus upgrade/repair. When the Aquatic Centre was built, many of the features that would have allowed the building to have a longer and more effective life span were stripped out in order too save money and protect the taxpayer at the time. Often, we make decisions to save for the short run and pay in the long run.
Cinder block construction is a good example of something that does not meet current code but was cheaper to construct. Think earthquake.
The City of Prince George is the last source I would trust when it comes to risk assessment. This is a portion of the annual building assessment for the Connaught Youth Center:
Significant deterioration in parts of building envelope
and cracks visible in foundation wall.
Structural columns have been displaced and are not
providing support for the floor above. This is a life
safety issue as the floor may collapse if overloaded.
And it got a green light with a score of 88 only one point lower than the Civic Center.
You would think that a potential life safety issue from a roof collapse would at least mean an amber rating>
This comes from the report to council pdf and not the full report and #1 firehall is strangely absent. Will root out the full report later if I have time.
If the firehall is structurally sound there are plenty of other civic buildings that could use some attention. We finished paying off the Aquatic Center this year but the brick facade is ready to fall off and there is a long list of work that needs to be done in the interior. Similar story with failing stucco on the CN center.
The report details $21 million worth of repairs required to just 17 city buildings over the next decade and this does not include things like the Rolling Mix arena, city hall or #1 firehall.
Time for a pause on new construction until the backlog on repairs to existing inventory is complete.
forgot the link
princegeorge.ca/City%20Hall/Agendas/2016/2016-11-09/documents/RTC_Civic_Facilities_Condition_Assessment_Report_for_2016.pdf#search=facilities%20condition%20report%20pdf
THERE MUST BE ANOTHER LOCATION WITH THE SAME ADVANTAGES. WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH BASEBALL FIELDS AS IT IS AND THIS FIREHALL WILL BE BUILT ON TOP OF A BASEBALL FIELD. A BASEBALL FIELD THAT IS PART OF CARRIE JANE GREY PARK, LAND RESERVED FOR BASEBALL. BECAUSE ONCE UPON A TIME SOMEONE HAD A VISION.
SO, MUCH LIKE THE REST OF THIS “PATCHWORK” CITY, WE WILL NOW ALSO BE SPENDING MORE TAX DOLLARS ON NEW BASEBALL FIELDS THAT WILL BE NOWHERE NEAR THE EXISTING BASEBALL “MECCA” OF CARRIE JANE GREY PARK. DO WE EVEN HAVE PLANNERS WORKING FOR THE CITY? DO THOSE POSITIONS TURNOVER YEAR AFTER YEAR? WHERE IS THE VISION? I AM SHAKING MY HEAD IN DISBELIEF. OF COURSE WE NEED ANOTHER FIREHALL, BUT REALLY? HERE? THERE HAS GOT TO BE ANOTHER LOCATION FOR THIS FIREHALL!
PRINCE GEORGE CURRENTLY CANNOT HOST PROVINCIALS OR ANY OTHER TOURNAMENTS FOR MOSQUITOS, PEE WEE, OR BANTAM. EVEN THE MIDGET PROVINCIALS WE HOSTED HERE LAST YEAR WAS A STRETCH.
SAY GOODBYE TO ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR PRINCE GEORGE. ALL OF US BASEBALL FAMILIES WILL CONTINUE TO TRAVEL TO KAMLOOPS OR FARTHER SOUTH TO SPEND OUR MONEY.
Have you heard of the CapsLock key?
What’s wrong with Volunteer Park for baseball? It’s a nice 4 diamond facility, they could move the fences back a bit if needed. There are almost 80 ball diamonds in this City already.
Parts of Carrie Jane Park are build on top of the old dump, it’s not the greatest place for anything.
Unless I misunderstood I thought the proposed location was the unused land fronting Massey between the entrance to Carrie Jane Grey and the Y. It’s plenty big enough for a fire hall and too small for a ball diamond.
NO NO NO NO NO
we cant afford it…. its fine
STOP spending
the fire fighters already make to much money for what they do
What’s the current counsel doing — other they making us go broke
STOP IT
Is this a joke? It must be, because I laughed out loud.
They already get paid too much for what they do? That is probably the most ignorant statement I’ve heard in awhile, and trust me, I’ve heard some ignorant statements. You clearly don’t even realize what they do. I would recommend educating yourself on it.
As Voltaire is quoted as saying:
“Common sense is not so common” as we can see.
CAPS, NO CAPS, DON’T CARE. THIS IS WORTH SHOUTING ABOUT; NO ONE AT THE CITY HAS LISTENED OVER THE PAST YEAR.
AND, STAY ON TOPIC…OR, YOU REALLY ARE ON HERE JUST TO BASH POSTERS.
Whenever some business or sector wants money, they come out exagerrating the conditions. The city cannot afford a firehall, and a pool… so pick one or the other.
Hey that wonderful new million dollar wood structrure at Fort George Park would make a nice firehall.
I think there is more to moving this fire hall than meet the eye.
Same for moving the pool.
I think there is more here than they are telling us.
Like they are planning , very quietly though, to put the PAC in this area, part of it for PAC and part of it for parking. I doubt however if they will admit it until they actually do it.
You might be on to something bcracer
Firehalls, firemen, equipment, etc. this is the biggest boondoggle of modern cities. The buildings cost a fortune, the wages paid to firemen are astronomical for the work they actually do, the equipment gets more expensive and sophisticated every year. It just goes on and on. But hey, we idolize them so costs are no object, correct? It used to be work done by volunteers but now it takes trained “professionals”.
A lot of you just miss one important thing here.. The response time! The response time from the old fire hall is absolutely ridiculous! For the catchment area that station has it needs to be moved out of downtown. The time the trucks leave the station and make it through the snags all the way up 15th Ave is poor. 15th Ave is poorly designed along the Victoria Street corridor up to Carney Street for emergency responders. We can blame the meridians because they don’t allow access to the other side and no the fire department does not have control of every set of traffic signals in Prince George. If they did fire truck drivers wouldn’t be stuck at 15th and Victoria or stuck at 15th and Spruce waiting for other drivers to go through the lights. That slows them down and on top of that not every other driver is willing to pull over to make room at any point for emergency responders which again slows them down.
Moving the fire hall is key and complainers only think of one thing… $$$$$$$ So I say boo hoo to those who are not interested or have other suggestions for a piece of crap building that is in serious need of replacing. Hope your houses don’t burn down because the response time sucks.
pookerjams. Don’t you think that by moving Firehall NO. 1. to the corner of Masse and Carney St. (in that area) that you are getting closer to some area’s like the BC Rail Industrial area, while at the same time you are getting further away from the industry on Pulp Mill road and East of Queensway.
In the final analysis you will increase your response time to the North and decrease it to the South. So what is the net gain.???
Seems to me this is more about moving the facility than it is about response time.
Furthermore when the bought the ladder truck back in the nineties they knew it would not fit into Fire Hall No. 1 and it was the intent to run this truck out of Fire Hall No. 2. So another red herring.
Just sayin.
And, you can easily drive over meridians. Medians, not so much.
No because the north has the Hart firehall and 5th Ave firehall can also respond faster than the downtown location. Think about it.. And no vehicles can’t drive over the meridan, give me a break!
Ahhh. But the Ospika and Fifth fire hall and the Highway 16 Firehall could also respond faster to fires in the South West sector.
So it seems that they have the area covered and that the 8 minute response is nothing more than a red herring, much like the flooding, and the meeting place/office issue.
Why don’t they really call it what it will be , a Boy’s Club.
I absolutely agree we need a new firehall. I do not agree with the location. Get it off the floodplain. This may be in some folks eyes a small thing which will probably never happen, but we do have a dam upriver.
And earthquakes don’t happen much here in the Central Interior. So what would flood if it broke. All emergency services should be out of the flood plain. Same with our forest fire mitigation around Prince George, no one thinks Ft. Mac will happen here. I also agree we need a new pool just don’t think it should be in the bowl.
The firehall was built in 57 for those who can’t count, our first responders need the space for new equipment. If you haven’t had a tour, go take a look, it will change your mind.
So here is a novel idea.
Leave the fire hall # 1 where it is to service that area of the city.
Why not build a new one which would be #5 where coverage is lacking?
Cost would be lowered substantially for a new building.
As for the old building not having enough room for meetings is hog wash. Like someone mentioned earlier there are plenty of other civic venues for this.
The ladder truck was to go to #2 not #1.
Get rid of the notion that just because the hall is called #1 does not mean it is. Get rid of the old boy’s competitiveness of which damn hall you work out of.
One thing about building an additional fire hall – #5 is staffing and extra equipment, would cost millions more. The argument presented by city staff to move fire hall # 1 is weak at best. I just don’t understand how moving the fire hall #1 away from it’s current service area would improve response time to the same area? As far as looking for room for the emergency call centre, couldn’t the retired Police station be renovated to accommodate this? Doesn’t the City own the old CN Station on first avenue? The second floor has some tenants who could be moved and what about the office space where once Initiatives P.G. occupied?
Fire Halls are really not very special building at all as far a construction costs go. We do not need to build another police station with useless, non structural wood columns from which to hang hoses.
This is a typical fire hall space usage program:
– A garage with several bays for large trucks,
– Office(s) for the station chief and admin staff
– dispatch office
– training room(s)
– kitchen and lounge for staff
– male and female washrooms, showers and lockers
– storage area
– mechanical + compressor room
About half the area is taken up by the garage which does not require full applied finishes such as flooring, drywall and suspended ceilings.
Depending on the program details, this can be accommodated in a building of about 10 to 15 thousand s.f.
At a unit cost of $400/sf, the larger 15,000sf version would generate a cost of $6million. That is less than half of the $15million proposed in the referendum. Remember, the property is City owned.
Where is the PG space program with areas required for each category and possible sketch floor plan that derive the square footage?
———————————- a current BC example
Sydney, BC, is building a 26,000 sf, $9million fire hall on a $1million site. That works out to just under $350/sf construction cost.
The building is that large because it will house the town’s fire department, B.C. Ambulance Services, a training facility, an emergency operations centre and the Peninsula Emergency Measures Organization.
Remember, we are just building a fire hall with some training facilities
They started construction in spring of this year.
In case you think this is a bare bones building, look at the architectural rendering of the hall. It pays the requisite homage to wood construction in public buildings, which is a maintenance item
timescolonist.com/news/local/after-7-years-work-on-sidney-fire-hall-gets-underway-1.13690754
—————————————–
Where does $15 million come from. I want to see the details!
We need a firehall on the east side of the Fraser to serve the BCR and Danson Industrial area as well as the new Boundary Rd. and the airport.
That means firehall #5. There is no reason why that cannot be the “headoffice” fire hall with the training facilities that would allow actual fire to be used in the outside training facility. That cannot happen in the park.
Downtown cannot afford to lose a firehall if we are encouraging new structures there. It likely has the highest assessed property improvement values per acre in the City. All, except one of our highest rise apartment buildings are located within quick access. They are also the oldest and most likely to have extensive damage during a fire.
Yes, we need a new fire hall, but it also needs to be an additional fire hall.
If we can tear a hotel down for a pool, especially in a part of the city which needs to maintain accommodation for travellers and convention goers, acquiring a property in the right location for a public emergency service building should not be located because the property is “free”. That is a false saving.
Good thing the City of Prince George is not responsible for Seniors. They would have us all moved out, or disengaged when we reached the age of 60. Their reasoning being that we are old, tired, leaking in some area’s, unable to respond to issues as fast as new and younger people, and high maintenance.
The taxpayers of PG are tired of spending money also. Enough, Vote No. Just look at the new RCMP building, the expense for such a poor location and design of building. The outside art is crap and cost a fortune in taxpayers money. Stupid people in the ivory tower….
What a waste of city economics………… My income does not increase
like the city fee increases or live rural.
100% Agree with you
Good points gopg2015 – Well researched and thought out. It’s too bad that our city planning department can’t do the same! If there was an award to a city for wasting tax payers money, our beloved city would win every time!
I’m perfectly OK with spending 15 million for the new firehall.
The firehall will service all residents of Prince George, and is needed
I am completely against spending 35 million taxpayer dollars, raised from the property taxes of the home/property owners of Prince George (of which I’m one), on a pool that only services a select few.
I don’t use that pool; I’ve never used that pool, and a large number of the home/property owners of Prince George, that are being asked to pay for it, don’t and have never used that pool either.
That pool needs to be user paid for; period.
Home/property owners are sick and tired of being asked to pay for everything, particularly venues that are used by persons that don’t pay property taxes.
Let the YMCA or some other similar organization, or a combination or organizations like the YMCA build a pool, which the users of said pool will pay for through fees charged by those organizations.
In the meantime, people wanting to use a pool can purchase “pool use” packages at UNBC’s sports center.
Enough already with dumping more expenses on home/property owners.
Are taxes are way too high compared to other municipalities as it is.
People of PG, get out and vote or pay higher taxes
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