They just moved here? They haven't been downtown yet have they? Unless they lived near hastings street in vancouver, they won't like that part of PG. And wait until they catch a whiff of the air on a hot summer afternoon. I recall seeing a cloud of mustard gas as I used to drive down 15th ave at Carney St. coming downtown to work. Yuck!

However, if youre retiring from the lower mainland to PG, and you own your former home outright it will be a financial advantage for you since the faltering forestry economy here will translate into real estate bargains.

I agree Ben! Prince george is a nice sized city with a pretty low cost of living, most young people can afford their own home, the natural beauty of BC is all around us and the people are friendly. Of course we have problems like any other city and the provincial government tends to think the province ends around Chilliwack - but our city will eventually grow and prosper and we'll all be glad we were here to see it.

I agree Ben! Prince george is a nice sized city with a pretty low cost of living, most young people can afford their own home, the natural beauty of BC is all around us and the people are friendly. Of course we have problems like any other city and the provincial government tends to think the province ends around Chilliwack - but our city will eventually grow and prosper and we'll all be glad we were here to see it.

Okay.... and what did the third couple have to say ????


V.

PG does have it's problems - duh, unless you live in the "Truman Show", everywhere has problems. I wonder why all you people who slam PG so freely stay? Something must be keeping you. Without the Pulp Mill smell PG would not be what it is today, - Move to Victoria, where they dump raw sewage into their harbour - yummy! I was downtown yesterday for the first time in ages and actually had a nice shopping experience. Went to Northern hardware and was happy see all the nice stuff they have, went to Riot, bought a nice pair of jeans and went to Homework and bought a nice necklace...nothin' wrong w/ that and all within a block of each other. Didn't see anything unusual. It gave me hope for PG's downtown. I also talked to a guy from Langley who just moved here w/ his family and two dogs. Very nice man, they moved here to get away from the rat race and they love it here. So all you PG people who can only look at the negative, MOVE or quit your complaining over stuff you have no control over. What do you think would happen to PG if all the pulp mills shut down? It would a disaster for PG!

I think it is great to hear positive feedback about PG. I love it here and choose to stay here. Living in the south - the gas prices are higher, the traffic is more congested, the house prices are ridiculous and wages aren't great. I was in Vancouver not too long ago and the average person with an average job cannot even get started. Sure - there is a lot to offer as far as entertainment and activity and shopping, but few can afford to partake. Our surroundings are absolutley beautiful for hiking, biking, camping, skiing. Our downtown leaves much to be desired - no news there, but we are no different than most other cities. Gang activity is on the rise everywhere and it will likely get worse. I am told that the gangs own much of the Okanagan these days (how true this is, I have no idea - but I heard it from a few people).
I agree with the pro PG posts. For those of you who hate it here - move! Everyone has a choice.

People who move here from Vancouver or the Island can usually make a healthy profit by selling high and buying low. They are not likely to say that they made a mistake in moving here and in fact would say just the opposite. The fact of the matter is, in order for them to sell they have to have a buyer which would indicate that someone is moving into their area in Vancoiuver or the Island.

I know a large number of people who retired in Prince George sold their houses and moved to the Island or to the Okanogan. I suspect that more leave the City than arrive, otherwise how do you account for the drop in the population.

Looks like Robichal left the downtown area before the shooting started. Maybe she should have sp;ent some time shopping at 3rd and George so that she could get a good sense of what is going on down there.

WOW... $780,000 somebody won the lottery!

"What do you think would happen to PG if all the pulp mills shut down? It would a disaster for PG"!...Well we know for sure that place would have been rebuilt if it burnt down!!

I agree with Robichal, I like downtown, I particularly like the Northern Hardware. Nice courteous staff and they have everything I want. Looks lovely and quiet too this morning down there.

PG is great for a lot of reasons like services, housings costs and a few other conveniences that smaller towns don't have. Despite that, I absolutely can't wait to get out of PG. The cut-banks are ugly, the downtown is ugly and unsafe, the crime rate is rediculous, the weather is just down-right nuts and the pot-holes and roads are unbelievably bad (to name a few). Another bad thing is the distance to other big centres like Edm, Cal, Van, Kam, Kel.

I can see why many people like it, particularly if PG is all you know. It's probably better then many other Canadian towns that are comparible in size, but it certainly doesn't rank high enough for me to stay here long-term. I'm afraid that many other people feel the same way and given that, it'll always be a rough town with roughly the same or smaller population.

I'll deal with it while I'm stuck here but when the time comes, I'll be out of PG like greased lightning.

I feel Prince George has so much to offer and am annoyed by people who constantly complain! Today the sun is shining and the city is bustling with energy and apparently no shortage of money by the looks of Pine Centre Mall. Most of the people I have met here are friendly, educated and love life. I can see moving from Vancouver or the Okanogan to retire here and/or raise a family. The sun shines a lot here, even in the winter, and that's better than living with months of rain or dreary skies. One thing I would like to see for PG is an increase in the presence of RCMP and a crack down on crime before it gets completely out of hand. Every city has crime but if New York can clean up their streets, so can PG! I love downtown, the history and unique culture; the old Blues Club environment(live music), boutiques, Meow records etc... Now with Tony Roma's, Rick's Grill and The Keg (soon to be renovated) the downtown can be reclaimed with some police presence!

Yay Sunflower.

steeliepete - why are you here then? for work? School? I'm assuming there must be something here for you.

"I can see why many people like it, particularly if PG is all you know. It's probably better then many other Canadian towns that are comparible in size, but it certainly doesn't rank high enough for me to stay here long-term. I'm afraid that many other people feel the same way and given that, it'll always be a rough town with roughly the same or smaller population"

Of course, I suppose we could always try and transform PG from that "rough town" into something more appealing, could we not? If so, I wonder what exactly that would look like? Would stuff like a nice downtown add to the atmosphere? What about a Performing Arts Centre? First rate health and educational facilities perhaps? Clean air? Moving from a city solely reliant on heavy industry to one that isn't? How about reclaiming our prized areas (river waterfront for example) and developing that into something that we can leverage into the future?

Thinking big. Scary thought I know :)

Posted by: jonnypg on August 8 2008 10:19 AM
"What do you think would happen to PG if all the pulp mills shut down? It would a disaster for PG"!...Well we know for sure that place would have been rebuilt if it burnt down!!

Within the next ten (10) years you will see only one (1) pulpmill in operation in PG.

Posted by: Lamb on August 8 2008 11:08 AM
I agree with Robichal, I like downtown, I particularly like the Northern Hardware. Nice courteous staff and they have everything I want. Looks lovely and quiet too this morning down there.

I agree but that is the nice part of town.

Posted by: steeliepete on August 8 2008 12:37 PM
PG is great for a lot of reasons like services, housings costs and a few other conveniences that smaller towns don't have. Despite that, I absolutely can't wait to get out of PG. The cut-banks are ugly, the downtown is ugly and unsafe, the crime rate is rediculous, the weather is just down-right nuts and the pot-holes and roads are unbelievably bad (to name a few). Another bad thing is the distance to other big centres like Edm, Cal, Van, Kam, Kel.

I can see why many people like it, particularly if PG is all you know. It's probably better then many other Canadian towns that are comparible in size, but it certainly doesn't rank high enough for me to stay here long-term. I'm afraid that many other people feel the same way and given that, it'll always be a rough town with roughly the same or smaller population.

I'll deal with it while I'm stuck here but when the time comes, I'll be out of PG like greased lightning.


I moved here from Surrey in 1980. When you leave PG don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. :)

Goodbye Steeliepete. Have a nice trip out of Prince george. The sooner the better

The bigger Prince George gets, the better it will be. Progress takes time.

All hog wash IMO. PG sucks for a lot of reasons... to many to list here. The biggest problem is we have no leadership from our elected politicians, because we have no civic education in the population at large, and therefore elections are a pick of the lesser evils usually done through name recognition alone.

I just got back from Whitehorse and that is a city that PG could learn a lot from. IMO that is the best mid-sized city in all of Canada (save for remote location). No crime; a vibrant downtown; an excellent river trail loop from the bridge downtown to the hydro electric dam up river; some of the best dirt biking and mountain biking terrain anywhere; excellent roads (they even have a city bi-pass road in a community that relies on tourist dollars for a source of income. A city with only a fraction of the revenue potential that PG has (no major industry and a third the population), but I would argue far better results for the investment of a scarce tax dollar.

IMO PG could learn a lot from our northern neighbors.

Eagleone, I can't agree with you enough about how Whitehorse has developed their city. I'm sure they benefit immensely from their position as a capital city, but regardless, they do allot of things VERY well.

Whitehorse is a very nice town but you have to realise where all the money came from to build this small capitol.

Unlike the city of PG which was built with people's hard work and private investment, your tax dollars have built and continue to maintain all the Yukon.

If you removed all that the feds have funded, it would be practically nothing.

If you want to be flabbergasted, just look at the current federal funding which flows to the Yukon territory.

There is basically no industry because the feds keep feeding the population in one form or the other. In fact the tax dollars which go to the environmental extremests far exeeds the money available for economic development. It is treated like a giant park with approx 35,000 people who are supported by your tax dollars.

If you want to forsee what the outcome of what concluded landclaims would look like in the provinces, this is the example which will open your eyes to how this works--actually doesn't work and is financially unsustainable. It is a financial burden beyond belief.

So go and enjoy this little city--you paid for it. Your tourism dollar is about the only legitamate private injection of money to this entire region.

Pretty much makes complete sense Woodchipper, good post.

Woodchipper makes many valid points, however, the example of Whitehorse had nothing to do with where their money came from. It was a discussion about how that money was utilized and managed in order to make the city a desireable place.

Every city (regardless of where their dollars come from) has the ability to make decisions around land use, planning, smart growth, etc. Some do it MUCH better than others. This becomes very obvious when you actually get out and experience what other cities have accomplished, even ones that don't rely on government funding.

Posted by: Old Hippy on August 8 2008 8:30 PM
Goodbye Steeliepete. Have a nice trip out of Prince george. The sooner the better.

Posted by: lostfaith on August 8 2008 8:28 PM
I moved here from Surrey in 1980. When you leave PG don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. :)

Old Hippy and lostfaith's posts kinda sum it up don't they? I'm feeling even more motivated now to go elsewhere for clean air, less crime and hopefully, fewer morons.

To answer "singlemom's" question, I'm here because of an opportunity for my kid. My kid even thinks that PG is a good place to leave. We don't even talk negatively about PG in front of her and she's come to that conclusion all on her own, which isn't a big stretch given that she's got all the five senses.

I came to PG for the outdoors but realized for a place that is fairly isolated it was amazing how poor the air quality is in town. City council needs to realize they need to stop studying the air quality and do something about it. I ended up getting fairly sick in the few years I was there and left to get my health back in order. Within 6 months my lungs felt better and have not been sick for over a year. Time to either move people out of the bowl or industry out of the bowl as it will only get worse... I also did not like how negative most people are in PG about everything, I have never dealt with such negative people in all the cities (4) that I lived in. Cheer up and embrace your city, not too many people can say they have moose and bears in their yards without being attacked.

Posted by: steeliepete on August 9 2008 3:49 PM
Posted by: Old Hippy on August 8 2008 8:30 PM
Goodbye Steeliepete. Have a nice trip out of Prince george. The sooner the better.

Posted by: lostfaith on August 8 2008 8:28 PM
I moved here from Surrey in 1980. When you leave PG don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. :)

Old Hippy and lostfaith's posts kinda sum it up don't they? I'm feeling even more motivated now to go elsewhere for clean air, less crime and hopefully, fewer morons.

To answer "singlemom's" question, I'm here because of an opportunity for my kid. My kid even thinks that PG is a good place to leave. We don't even talk negatively about PG in front of her and she's come to that conclusion all on her own, which isn't a big stretch given that she's got all the five senses.



You are the one that came in here bad mouthing PG. It's very apparant where your kid gets her attitude, moron.

well my main reason to sell and move is mainly that i have severe breathing problems now, and the crime ,and the city is so dirty...Some great people here some not so nice people to.

Look name calling others because they choose to say or go gets non of us anywhere. We have isues with this city and im sure we all agree we want a safe clean place to call home.

and i best work on spell check i see.

Woodchipper you have some valid points. One can't visit that area without coming to that same conclusion about industry. But like NMG says its a matter of how decisions by the city council matter in how a city become livable or not. I would say materially the people of the Yukon are amongst the poorest in Canada, but when it comes to quality of life they are probably the richest. The richness of there quality of life is not a result of government funding IMO, but rather how they allocate what funding they do receive... probably as a result of an active media that educates there electorate.

As for industry the Yukon has a lot of pro's and con's. On the negative side they have vast areas of small trees not worth the cost of harvesting, plus no rail road to get the goods over the mountain passes to market, plus no natural gas access for cheep electricity on demand to power industry. So the likely hood of the Yukon ever having a vibrant forest industry is zero to nilch.

So, on the positive side... the US government has recently announced they will help fund a pipeline from Alaska through the Yukon to existing pipelines in the south if the Canadian government will work with them on it. Some say if a pipeline goes in then so should a rail line at the same time in the same location.... if these two things happen they will go from a scenic tourist paradise with mining potential, to a whole new level of economic possibilities. IMO if the pipeline and rail line go through, then the Yukon will go from 60,000 residents to over a million in less then two decades. The whole Yukon and Alaska would boom and hopefully PG was smart enough to get our foot in the door somehow?

IMO PG should make Whitehorse our twin city so we can learn from them how to build a livable city in the north, and they could work with us to ensure a common economic plan to develop the complimentary infrastructure that industry will require. Unfortunately our economic development plan in PG requires us to go prostrate to the Chinese for ideas and students, rather then look in our own back yard where we should be focused.

Woodchiper makes a point about the federal funding... IMO anything run by the federal government is usually a failure under the silver lining. In the Yukon they may be like one over sized Banff (which is great)... and that may be the intent of the federal government, but the management of wildlife there is horribly gone wrong IMO. In 3000km of highway I didn't see a single animal... and yet anywhere in BC you can't go 100km without seeing either a moose, beer, or deer... so who is managing wildlife up there anyways. Great scenery, but I think the guide outfitters have picked the place clean of all wildlife and this actually hurts their future tourism potential as word gets out. Maybe the federal government needs to pull some strings to ensure that part of the environment is being protected properly? But we all know the federal government operates through special interest groups so that will never happen.

PG has a distinctive communitywide "don't tread on me" sort of attitude that has reaped for it many benefits (see UNBC and northern med program).

My main point is that people that compare Whitehorse to PG have to realise where the origin of the funds actually came from.

Any city or town which is blessed with enormous funding per capita could easily do as well or better.Especially if they are also blessed with natural features and interesting history, such as Whitehorse is.

My guess is that in one form or another the origin of approx 80% of the money in the Yukon comes from the federal government--and this of course is your tax dollars.
It either comes through the transfer payments which the Yukon gov spends or it goes through the DIAND programs.

Virtually all of this money circulates through Whitehorse and this small city enjoys a very diligent focus by the feds and the Yukon gov for quality of life investments.

I agree with the post which refers to the feds as a disaster when it comes to efficent use of tax dollars--and one of my points is that what is spent in the Yukon is an obscene amount--considering that the Feds and YTG have no use for industry being there.

There is little chance that what amounts to basically a welfare/makework/gov employed economy will change--if left to the decisions made in the Yukon.

Air quality problems cited in the PG area are primarily a result of a very industrious economy and these are the primary generators of wealth which fund the city's tax base.

In the case of PG, no industry--no taxbase--little pollution, but nothing of a city which it is--because no federal government is going to feed the general population--as it does in Whitehorse.
How many places do you wish to fund so that people can have their cake and eat it too.??

"Air quality problems cited in the PG area are primarily a result of a very industrious economy and these are the primary generators of wealth which fund the city's tax base. In the case of PG, no industry--no taxbase--little pollution, but nothing of a city which it is--because no federal government is going to feed the general population--as it does in Whitehorse. "

And yet when we have a LEGITIMATE opportunity to attract and expand the public sector economy in PG (I'm thinking primarily large scale health care and post secondary eductaional services), many people around here laugh and scoff about how those aren't "real" dollars or industries. Well guess what? There are many cities across Canada that do quite well having those sectors as significant contributors to their local economy. They employ lots of people and the jobs pay well. Some, like Whitehorse, take advantage of it to the extreme.

The reality is that the Feds and the Province will never abandon these services. There will ALWAYS be money flowing in and IMHO, we are in a pretty nice strategic position to expand those services, to become a "true" northern provider of them for half of the Province and to take a bigger chunk of the pie in regards to the dollars expended on them by various levels of government.

The problem, at least to the best of my knowledge, is that nobody has been agressively making the case to have PG take that role on. We need a City Council (along with MLA's and MP's) that can see beyond forestry and look for additional contributors to our economy. We already have a first rate university and college. We also have an expanding hospital. We are entering a time of aging populations and the need for skiiled workers across ALL sectors. We are a logical service center with already established infrastructure. We have affordable living. We have great facilities. You could go on and on.

Someone needs to bring all of this together and start developing comprehensive plans/proposals that leverage all of our strengths in order to take advantage of the opportunities and future needs that are out there. Right now, we're stuck in the land of those with small minds. And THAT is something you don't see in places like Whitehorse.

While it is obviously true that PG, like any city could be improved, I am with lostfaith and others who say good riddance to those of you who can only see the negative. Move somewhere else and complain there. Pg doesnt really need people who are just working to leave. It needs people who want to live here. So yes, watch your ass on the way out. Theses days anyone can live pretty much anywhere in canada. Dont like the housing prices? Dont like the weather? Tough, take the good with the bad. Work to improve what you can, live with the rest.
I am sure that anyone who lists the 'ugly' cutbanks as a reason to move is someone we can do without. And if that were not sufficient, there is the whole question of how such a negative person could maistake negativity in his child with rational thought. Ugly indeed!