I think both Massey and the Peden Hill intersections should both be overpasses.

Massey for the obvious reason of its high accident rates and step grade for highway traffic heading into town.

Peden Hill because stopping at that light takes everything a fully loaded truck has going down, and if heading up it guarantees a spin out on the hill if lifting off from the bottom and trying to climb that step of a grade. Every spin out is a potential safety hazard for everyone on the hill and creating bottleneck problems being a major highway with the highest traffic volumes North of Kelowna. Chaining up is great, if you can predict the condition of the hill ahead of time, or if you know you will be stopping at that light, but its simply not practical for a major highway situation like that for every truck in every questionable road condition.

I also fully agree with Diplomat about the turn lane needed at Central North onto 5th East. Its in the top three for busiest intersections in northern BC and it has a ridiculous one car length turn lane holding up the entire highway because all highway tractors stay to the right while going through town.

In any other city in Canada these things among others simply wouldn't be acceptable....

Right on Eagle! From your lips to God's ear
To paraphrase your words, chaining up is great (I have not noticed a chain up area near the base of Peden hill) so an overpass is the obvious solution for sure.
Only trouble is; this must be studied to death for any action to take place. metalman.

Could easily build an overpass with some of that Performing Arts Center money (among other things)

Domano and 16 is about the most poorly designed and engineered intersection I have ever seen. Going west there is no light change warning. If you are turning left onto Domano and there is someone turning left onto Tyner bigger than a car, a huge blind spot is created blocking the view of oncoming traffic. There are many accidents because of this. Going east what a joke. There is traffic coming out of the Walmart area and right in front of that is an offramp into Canadian Tire and in the midst of this is traffic changing lanes to go left up Tyner. Who ever designed this intersection did not finish top of the class.

I got rear-ended there about 20 years ago by a truck coming down the hill in poor conditions,and it still makes me nervous!
Lucky nobody was hurt,but now it is about 100 times worse!
They know it is dangerous, and have known that for years,so why don't they just fix it?
Oh wait...probably for the same reason they don't fix potholes!
Not a priority.
Seems intersection upgrading for saftey reasons is based on the number of people killed.
How many have been killed or seriously injured there?
The politician who actually raises hell and gets some real road work done in PG will probably be elected for life!

I'm betting if people would stop running red lights, the incidents would decrease drastically. I use the intersection at 16 and Domano several times a day, and every single time there is someone (and sometimes more than one person) is running a red.

Why is there only one direction at this light that has the flashing lights for:
Prepare to stop if lights flashing?

Would it not make sense to let people approaching this intersection that the light is about to change?

They have it coming down the hill into town, but it is a guessing game from all other directions. Why should we have to guess? This would help the majority of drivers stop in time which would help prevent accidents.

I also agree that things like this should take much higher priority than a Performing Arts Center. Although it wouldnt take too much time away from that project.
Approve warning lights, install warning lights, activate warning lights.

Overpass, underpass, give me a abreak. What would these people do if they had to drive in HEAVEY traffic. What is really needed is to get rid of the ME FIRST idea.

And we need someone to set up traffic signals that has an idea how they should work instead of leting politicians make the rules. As has been mentioned there is no amber signal after the left turn arrow insread it goes to green and this is where all the hurry up people get into accidents.

There is one exception and that is Ospika and 15th avenue. The green after the arrow has been eliminated recently. It was the #2 crash site and has now been moved down to about four or five.

As I have said many times it takes 10 minutes from Foothills to Harold Moffats store during rush hour. Twenty minutes puts me at the airport so what the hell is all the hurry. Get a life, move out of the boonies to the real world.

Cheers

Many places I have been to in Europe the lights go from green to flashing yellow, to steady yellow and then red. There is lots of warning and you can come to a nice steady safe stop. Here one never knows when the light will change and when it does its fast. One has to concentrate on the light and not the intersection.

I too have seen lots of people go through a red but in a lot of these cases its checking the intersection and then looking at the light again and its turning red. I have made the Europe suggestion to highways and all I got was excuses. These type of lights could go into all intersections at low cost. In many cases all it would take is reprograming .

Dan writes..."Why is there only one direction at this light that has the flashing lights for:
Prepare to stop if lights flashing?"

They were installed there for the benefit of heavy trucks coming down the hill around the corner.
Very poor visibility coming down there.

If people payed attention to how traffic flow and traffic lights worked together, they would quickly learn when the light will change and for who.

Ever hear of a "stale" light?
Learn how to determine if the traffic lights are "stale" then you can determine what the lights are about to do.

"Prepare to stop ahead" warning lights should only be used in areas that have safety concerns.
Using them everywhere takes more responsibility away from drivers to pay attention while driving.

The bottom line is, if you pay attention while driving then chances are you will not end up in a crash.
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Eagleone writes..."Peden Hill because stopping at that light takes everything a fully loaded truck has going down, and if heading up it guarantees a spin out on the hill if lifting off from the bottom and trying to climb that step of a grade."

Stopping a heavy truck at the bottom of Peden hill is a very safe thing to do and takes no more special effort than other type of vehicle on the hwy.
It all comes down to the skill of the driver and the quality of the maintenance program for the truck.

Where is the steep grade on Massey for traffic heading into town?

As far as having to chain up to climb Peden hill, thats absolutely ridiculous.
There is no reason anyone should ever have to chain up for that hill.

With one exception.

That being, when our taxpayer funded hwy contractor doesn't do the job they get payed for at the time the job needs to be done. You know, like at the beginning.

If it was being done how it should be done we wouldn't be here discussing it.

We pay taxes to keep the hwy plowed and sanded. Remember that.

I made the very same suggestion a few years ago on the Meisner show and was asked by the then Highways Minister to submit it in writing.

I did. Result: Flashing amber lights and flashing red lights have already been assigned to other purposes and using the above idea would only lead to confusion in the public.

Real explanation: If the government minions had thought of it first we would have it already.

Afterthought: In China and some other countries (at some high traffic intersections) digital readouts beside traffic lights show how much time is left for the present signal until it changes, in other words it is a count down display.

Obviously, far too advanced for us to even consider!

Lostfaith, you write that "Prepare to stop ahead warning lights should only be used in areas that have safety concerns.
Using them everywhere takes more responsibility away from drivers to pay attention while driving."
This is the area of highest safety concern in the city! Why should it not get warning lights???

There are warning lights going eastbound at numerous locations: cowart road, domano, the firehall between walmart and bon voyage, and even near the shell/ yellowhead golf course light.
Going westbound at the same lights, there are only warning lights at two of these intersections, the firehall and the shell.

If a warning light is needed going westbound at the shell station, then it could certainly be useful at the top of peden hill.


If warning lights are not a desired way to go, then perhaps the delayed turn signal now used at hwy 16/97 and 15th/ospika should be put into effect at Domano as well.

Ever hear of a "stale" light?

That tells the whole story. Most traffic lights are set for a maximum of one muniute and then time out. If the light is green when you first see it,its a stale green light. Flash your tail lights and be prpared to stop if your not on your cell phone.

seamutt, I wrote (hard mail) ICBC and complained about a rear ender I had at 15th and Ospika . They built a fire under the Cityand changes were eventualy made to the signals at that intersection. ICBC told me in a phone call tha the city would contact me. But I never ever herd from the City.

Cheers

I have just been informed that the guys that fill the pot holes also service the traffic signals.

Cheers

What idiot Department of Highways engineer designed the Domano/16W intersection? Perhaps he/she is a Deputy Minister or MLA by now. Anyone with a bit of common sense could have done better. Let's get it fixed to be safe and then lower the hammer on the light runners and cell phone users.

Lostfaith says "Prepare to stop ahead" warning lights should only be used in areas that have safety concerns.
Using them everywhere takes more responsibility away from drivers to pay attention while driving.

I disagree to a point. If there where better lights one could put more concentration in the intersection and then be more able to take evasive action if needed. Just think of someone who has never seen the intersection before. While they are trying to figure it out, poof the light is red and the province just made more money.

Another point is an intersection with a camera safer? I think it makes it more dangerous. A driver knowing there is a camera there will tend to make a hard stop as soon as the light turns yellow causing everyone to nail their brakes instead of smoothly continuing through.

As for traffic lights changing to fast, just look at all the skid marks leading upto the intersections around town.

Dan, Cowart Rd and Domano warning lights are there for trucks, due to the hill and corners. They give the trucks a little extra warning and stopping distance.

The warning lights in both directions at the firehall and Parkridge Heights are there due to the 80kmh speed limit.

If I am not mistaken any light controlled intersections that have a speed limit above 60kmh have warning lights.

I don't believe all these crashes have been caused due to a lack of warning lights at Domano or any other intersection.

In fact 90% of all crashes are due to drivers not paying attention to the job at hand.

I guess the next be whine will be on how other drivers performe.

Cheers

I drive through this intersection every day and agree it's poorly designed. There is, however, a simple no-cost change that could be made to reduce the frustration of east bound drivers. Right now, only 5 cars (if they are fast) can make a left onto Tyner with the advanced green turn signal. At the time of day I go through there, 10 to 15 vehicles are lined up in the left turn lane - 4 or 5 use the light, and usually a couple of more run the red so they don't have to wait. Often the first vehicle in line has to wait until cars turning from Domano onto 16 clear the intersection, and only 1 or 2 vehicles make it through. Simply extending the left turn signal time to double or preferably triple what it is now would make a huge improvement in traffic flow, and would cut down on the number of vehicles running the red light.

lostfaith.... I know ..I know your bracing yourself for me to take a shot. well not today.. Your right however I will say that as I have been in the trucking biz for a long time that even with sand a tractor still can have a hard time climbing depending on what the load is. It is a short run for a tractor to get up to speed on Peden from a stop.

I have an idea - how about everyone drive the speed they are supposed to drive, drive according to the road conditions, slow down and stop when the light turns yellow instead of stepping on it to make it through? Seriously - the yellow light means stop, unless it is unsafe to do so. How many people actually blow through the yellow because it is unsafe for them to stop? Very few. Most put the pedal to the metal and get through as quickly as they can and guess what - the light turns red before they make it through the intersection. I'm pretty darn sure (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the speed limit at that intersection is 60kph, is it not? If someone is driving the speed limit, and chooses to drive like an adult who deserves their drivers liscence, then there really shoudn't be an issue. People are blowing through the reds because they aren't paying attention, or were speeding and couldn't come to a safe stop or are just in a hurry. The intersection is dangerous, no doubt, and it could be improved, but people need to take responsibility for their own driving habits instead of blaming it on traffic lights.

Cheers Thunder

When you see an intersection coming up that is controlled by lights, if you don't have enough brains to use caution when approaching and then travelling through that intersection and you think you need to have warning lights to help you get through it safely, then you know what I will say to that, right.

Driving is not rocket science for most people, however it is for many.

Or is it just the intersection with the most idiots driving through it? Whenever I head up to snob town up there, you can see all the morons driving too fast in vehicles that are too big.

My above post should have read Domano rather than Massey. I see why it made no sense now lol.

Also rather than an over pass at Peden Hill what I think would work just as good, but cost far less would be to simply close the intersection at the bottom of Peden Hill. Make it so that you can only merge on or off the highway at that location, but can't cross the highway or make left turns. This would keep the traffic flowing. When the new Fraser Bench development goes in it will be a necessity because with 5000 more people using that intersection it is going to be a very dangerous bottle neck. If it is made into a merge only intersection then one would likely have to update the intersection further from the hill at the Mowhawk gas station or build a new road behind Wood Wheaten and the Superstore to connect traffic to Ferry Avenue.

Eventually something needs to be done.

Also for stopping at that intersection. Yes it can be done and is done every day. The point is that when you ride your brakes for 3km of hill likely stopping at Domano, and then with red hot brakes continuing on to Peden hill the hot brakes don't work nearly as well in certain scenarios and that light can spike rather quick... often the four wheelers will cut in front at the last second to get ahead a spot, and that is when you have a recipe for disaster. Having done that hill thousands of times its not a problem... but its those half dozen times where the circumstances are just right that one questions the road design and sees the potential. Some trucks from Alaska have never seen that hill and have no idea what they are approaching and that is the real danger IMO.

Eagleone

No professional truck driver would ever ride his brakes for 3 kms down this hill.
Only those who aquired their class one licences out of a crackerjack box would ever do anything like that.

A professional driver would use very few brake applications along with their engine brakes to safely descend this or any other
hill.

Posted by: arizona on November 13 2008 9:45 PM
Or is it just the intersection with the most idiots driving through it? Whenever I head up to snob town up there, you can see all the morons driving too fast in vehicles that are too big.

Don't come up here then, stay in your own part of town.
Who invited you anyway?

Arizona - Snob town? Gee, sounds to me like the beginning of a whole new post lol. So, when I come into the bowl, does that mean I'm slumming? I never thought of it that way before. Too bad you do.

If Domano and Highway 16 is the most dangerous intersection in town, why don't they divert some of the traffic going through there by finishing off the end of Ospika (where it meets up with Tyner Blvd). Haven't the plans for that been in place for years??? To connect up with the Highway just past wal-mart ... I know I'd be able to avoid the Domano intersection all together both on my way to work, and my way home.