“While it may be the highest crash site in Prince George, it wouldn’t even get on the radar screen in Vancouver” says Knight.

Last time I checked, we weren't in Vancouver.

What an arrogant attitude!
So typical of snivel servants.
That is one damn spooky intersection and regardless of it being a human problem or not,they need to ask WHY it is a human problem?
If there are that many accidents,obviously something is compounding the problem?
Could it be that the overall design makes it easy to screw up?

Hwy 97 and Domano is a big, well lit, well marked intersection with long enough turn lanes. People should focus more on their driving than cell phones, yapping to other people or their ipods. I've seen people drive straight through the intersection when only the left arrow is flashing. How is crap like that the highway's problem?

There is no well designed turning'merge lane from Tyner to Hwy16 west. There is competing traffic from Hwy16 east going into the access underpass to box store heaven. The underpass was built too close to the intersection.

The same on the east side of the road for movements coming from box store heaven heading east along hwy 16, those heading into Canadian Tire and those turning onto Domano. Then there is a lane crossing scenario coming from box store heaven going to Tyner heading north.

All that may be assisted once Ospika is pulled accross.

For anyone to say it is not a problem got their engineering degree from a cracker box. It is the highest accident corner in town. People elsewhere drive impaired as well, tired, fast, etc. This is where they have the accidents. The intersection is the variable, not the driving habits of people.

Posted by: Andyfreeze on November 17 2008 7:17 AM
What an arrogant attitude!
So typical of snivel servants.
That is one damn spooky intersection and regardless of it being a human problem or not,they need to ask WHY it is a human problem?
If there are that many accidents,obviously something is compounding the problem?
Could it be that the overall design makes it easy to screw up?

Not paying attention is the cause of these crashes at this intersection as well as most other intersections.

Posted by: gus on November 17 2008 7:51 AM
"There is no well designed turning'merge lane from Tyner to Hwy16 west. There is competing traffic from Hwy16 east going into the access underpass to box store heaven. The underpass was built too close to the intersection.

The same on the east side of the road for movements coming from box store heaven heading east along hwy 16, those heading into Canadian Tire and those turning onto Domano. Then there is a lane crossing scenario coming from box store heaven going to Tyner heading north.

All that may be assisted once Ospika is pulled accross.

For anyone to say it is not a problem got their engineering degree from a cracker box. It is the highest accident corner in town. People elsewhere drive impaired as well, tired, fast, etc. This is where they have the accidents. The intersection is the variable, not the driving habits of people."


One of the great things about humans is their ability to adapt to most situations.

There are those that don't have the ability to adapt or pay attention and it's those people that are involved in most incidents/crashes.

Pay attention to what you are doing and reap the benefits.

True lostfaith,but I still think some intersections make it easier to screw up and lose track of what you are doing,especially when it is very busy and congested, and that intersection gets VERY congested at certian times of the day.
That does not take the responsibility off the driver,but it does warrant more warning lights etc. farther back up the hill than they now have just to remind people to slow down.
Some "Congested Traffic Area Ahead" signs and lights farther from the intersection on both sides may help somewhat.
Coming down the hill,the flashing amber light seems a bit too close to the interestion.

PG highways, knock, knock, anyone home? I see the lights are on, but kind of dim.

I think the highways have a death and injury ratio to money spent. The less money spent the bigger the pay bonus.

Time to buy a lottery ticket! I agree with everything posted above. The arrogance of the so called expert Jeff Knight is unbelievable, so what if our traffic and collision volume does not measure up to that of the lower drainland? It has to be obvious to anyone that there is a problem at that intersection, however you characterize it. So the experts tell us that the design is faultless, are they allowed or even able to consider the effect that the poorly placed exits and merge lanes have on the intersection if those features are not actually connected to said intersection? If it is true that 'human error' is to blame for most of the accidents at that intersection, then should we not try to do something about that before more people lose their lives? There are far too many normal people out there who become idiots once they get behind the wheel of a car, I mean if you can't walk and chew gum without tripping or biting your tongue then you should not be granted the privelege of a driver's license.
metalman.

Jeff Knight is right on the money. Are we going to build an overpass for those who are accident prone? And for those who think we have traffic congestion at Domano its like Knight tells us try driving in Vancouver. And for those who think we dont live in Vancouver give youe head a shake and wake up when your behind the steering wheel.

Our streets are for everyone not for those thoughtless people that feel they are just built for them too their specifications. We have three Grand kids in age from 16 to 20. Each one got their drivers licence at 16 and each one of them have had an accident. So you adults out there show more responsablity and dont drive like teenagers.

Cheers

Put in a proper merging lane for vehicles turning right off of Domano onto 16 East. Too many drivers in this city are confused between YIELD and MERGE. That turn is a designated YIELD and I see many drivers trying to merge there.

Maybe if they install separate left hand turn signals/controls like the intersections along they bypass (or like the new lights at Ospika/15th).

"Maybe if they install separate left hand turn signals/controls like the intersections along they bypass (or like the new lights at Ospika/15th)."

That would be catering to those drivers that don't have enough brains to pay attention while driving.

There are many drivers out there that don't have any issues at any intersections anywhere.
They go through their day behind the wheel and don't have any troubles other than those created by other drivers that simply don't know how to pay attention to driving and don't know how to follow the rules of the road.

The traffic light change at 15th and Ospika is a prime example of the city catering to idiots.

Now for those people who say don't build intersections for idiots, is Domano and 16 the only intersection that idiots drive through? I would think that Domano and 16 has the same good driver, idiot ratio as any other intersection in town but still has the highest crash incidents. That should be pause for thought. I have friends that don't live in PG and are not that familiar with the killer and its scares them when they come through.

I think highways know they blew it with the killer and so will defend it to no end, at least until who ever designed it retires.

If a proper merge lane were put into place, it won't make a difference to those who cannot tell the difference. Idiots are idiots, no matter how much signage there is.

I just don't get it. Green light go. Yellow light stop, unless unsafe to do so. Red light STOP. Amber lights flashing means to get ready to stop, not accelerate to make it through on time - or not. Traffic gets congested - stop tailgating, slow down, hang up your phone, put your coffee down and open your eyes, use your peripheral vision like you're supposed to and pay attention.

This is "driving 101" people. I travel that intersection several times a day, every day and have never had a problem. It's not rocket science.

There is no amount of change to that intersection that will change the driving habits of those who speed, tailgate, multi-task and drive impaired and accidents will continue to occur.

People are causing the accidents, not the apparent lack of traffic control that some people seem to observe.

Posted by: seamutt on November 17 2008 11:07 AM
"Now for those people who say don't build intersections for idiots, is Domano and 16 the only intersection that idiots drive through? I would think that Domano and 16 has the same good driver, idiot ratio as any other intersection in town but still has the highest crash incidents. That should be pause for thought. I have friends that don't live in PG and are not that familiar with the killer and its scares them when they come through."
I think highways know they blew it with the killer and so will defend it to no end, at least until who ever designed it retires.
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Seamutt
If you read the story above, you like the rest of the readers would have read...

“Over 80% of the crashes were a result of human error” says Knight. “Drivers were driving too fast, driving with undo care and attention, following too closely or driving while impaired.”

Also...

"More than 80% of the collisions were rear enders."


Having said this, what part of this intersection is the "killer", the intersection or the idiots?

I haven't heard of an intersection rear ending anyone or driving impaired or speeding or........................

This is probably one of PG's busiest intersections, due to the residential/shopping/gateway effect of funneling so many vehicles through a small area.

PAY ATTENTION

Your friends are scared when they come through? People that are scared probably shouldn't be driving while they are scared.

I am very cautious when getting into this intersection but no more than when I enter any other one.

"People are causing the accidents, not the apparent lack of traffic control that some people seem to observe."

Exactly Thunder.

What do people do when there isn't a sign to tell them what to do?

How do these people get through life without signs?

Here's your sign!

I have looked at this intersection and can't see any really obvious design flaws. I believe that the intersection has considerably more traffic flowing through it now than when it was first constructed, however, I find myself without the ability to sharply criticize.

Some improvements or modifications that may be possible are:

-re-timing of the light cycles for expected traffic volumes (time of day)

-extending yield lanes into merge lanes on the sides approaching the highway from both directions

- concrete dividers along the first part of new merge lanes to prevent contact between vehicles in adjacent lanes while turning onto the highway

-amber warning lights on all sides, move the one on hwy 16w further up the hill and re-time it for heavy commercial vehicles (they have been on the brakes since Westgate and the brakes are already hot, but the decline continues to push them hard into the intersection)

Having said the above, this area has extremely high traffic volumes most of the time. Thus, it would likely be a crash hotspot.

Also, any study will tell you that when people are driving, many of them are constantly distracted and paying the least attention to the task at hand.

Sit at this intersection with a pair of binoculars and count the number of people talking on cellphones, texting, changing CDs, whatever. I was cut off by a guy who wandered into my lane while watching a movie on a portable DVD player on the dash.

Some of these people need a bus pass or blinders. Don't distract the monkey.

lostfaith read my post again. Rearenders, why? One reason is because as a person is trying to figure out what to do at the "KILLER" the light suddenly changes and the person in front nails the binders. There is just too much going on at this intersection for its design. So why are there more accidents at the "KILLER"

Ok lostfaith,your argument is valid but only up to a point...I was sitting at that intersection doing what I was supposed to be doing,when I got rear ended.
It is easy to say that people need to drive more responsibly,but that doesn't protect the innocent obviously!
It makes far more sense to creat an enviroment where there is less room for error and a smoother traffic flow than to simply say, oh well,it's human error!
If you make a mistake at that intersection when it is busy,as it usually is,somebody IS going to get hurt, and it might not be just the person who screwed up!
On that note I would have to disagree..it IS a BAD intersection!
It's accident record shows that,regardless of who is making the mistakes.
And for Knight to say that compared a busy Vancouver intersection, it's not that bad,is ridiculous,but typical.
That intersection would not be tolerated in Vancouver and they would do whatever they had to do to fix it... in a hurry.
It seems the Ministry has a body count formula that decides when they will fix the problem.
I wonder what the number is?

"-amber warning lights on all sides, move the one on hwy 16w further up the hill and re-time it for heavy commercial vehicles (they have been on the brakes since Westgate and the brakes are already hot, but the decline continues to push them hard into the intersection)"

That statement once again points the finger at the human as being the problem.

I have driven heavy trucks for years including chiptrucks and "being on the brakes since Westgate" is the sign of a very unprofessional/dangerous driver.

Three short brake applications in the correct gear with the use of the engine brake and any professional driver will descend that hill very, very easily without overheating his/her brakes.
The warning lights up the hill are well placed and need not be moved. Unless the speed limit is increased or the unprofessional drivers out there smoke thier brakes all the way down the hill.

Posted by: seamutt on November 17 2008 12:37 PM
lostfaith read my post again. Rearenders, why? One reason is because as a person is trying to figure out what to do at the "KILLER" the light suddenly changes and the person in front nails the binders. There is just too much going on at this intersection for its design. So why are there more accidents at the "KILLER"
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Again, it's the human thats at fault not the lights or signs or lack there of.

If one hasn't "figured out" what to do at any intersection when a light changes then they shouldn't be driving.

Nailing the binders because a light changes is absolutely ridiculous.

Rearenders why? Again driver lack of attention and stupidity is completely to blame.

There are more crashes at your "KILLER" because this is a very busy intersection that has many drivers that lack the ability to pay attention.

"I was sitting at that intersection doing what I was supposed to be doing,when I got rear ended."

You were rearended because some idiot wasn't paying attention.
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"It makes far more sense to creat an enviroment where there is less room for error and a smoother traffic flow than to simply say, oh well,it's human error!"

When I see an intersection ahead I usually pay attention to what is going on and react accordingly to whatever situation is at hand .
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"If you make a mistake at that intersection when it is busy,as it usually is,somebody IS going to get hurt, and it might not be just the person who screwed up!"

So someone that makes a mistake can blame it on a lack of signs or lights and not because that person wasn't paying attention to what was going on around them.
I always thought paying attention to what was going on around you while in control of a motorvehicle was part of your responsibility as a driver.
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"On that note I would have to disagree..it IS a BAD intersection!
It's accident record shows that,regardless of who is making the mistakes."

Very true but it wasn't the car or road or light or sign that made the mistake.

Was it?

I agree lostfaith. If you rear end someone, you're following too close or not paying attention. There is no number of traffic lights that will prevent that. If you run a red and run into someone, the existing light didn't make any difference, so why on earth would changing it make any difference? If someone slams on the brakes, as stupid as they may be for doing so, the person behind them must be ready for anything and be following at a safe distance. Anyone could slam on the brakes at any time, for an animal, a pedestrian, someone cutting them off... it's called defensive driving.

I think more effective yield / merge lanes would be wonderful, but the existing merge / yield lanes in town are already useless due to drivers who don't seem to know the difference, so I think that whole idea would be a complete waste of resources.

Lostfaith said: One of the great things about humans is their ability to adapt to most situations.

That is correct. Those who don't will die off according to Darwin.

I think it is time we removed all traffic control lights at that intersection and watch you theory at work Lostfaith. I just do not understand why we bother with signalized controls at intersections in this city. A pain and major expense.

Everything is human error. Even mechanical failures are human errors, so are faulty intersection designs.

The question is not whether humans are at fault. The questions is which humans and for what.

If it were not for humans, there would be no errors.

that intersection is just find ... people that bitch about it have obviosly never been in another city comparible size to PG or larger hell the intersection in Quesnell from wallys world to Maple drive is the same thing ...

actually ya'll are correct...
One thing i have noticed since moving back to PG is that no one in this town knows how to Negotiate a 4 way stop ...so it is the designers fault for thinking that the majority of this town could figure out how to operate a 4 lane road with turning and merging lanes.... Heaven help us if we ever get a traffic circle or a clover leaf

If you want to see some entertainment, let's install a round-a-bout. They have them in Edmonton, England, Italy, Bahamas etc. It keeps the traffic moving. Until? It's a hoot to see people slamming on their brakes because they don't know what to do. Then you get rear enders and all kinds of unplanned, unexpected behavior.

I'm thankful for lights and signs. At the end of the day, we all need to be alert, observant, and pay attention at all times. Especially approaching an intersection, or all intersections for that matter.

I have driven lots of roundabouts in Europe and Australia and they work great. By their nature traffic is slowed and its almost impossible to get t-boned in a roundabout.

I realize this intersection has the most accidents in Northern BC, but that is probably because it has some of the highest traffic. The more traffic an intersection has, the more accidents there will be. A more useful statistic would be accidents per 1000 vehicles through the intersection. We might find some more dangerous intersections that don't get as much traffic, but the odds of getting into an accident when traveling through the intersection are much higher.

I guess 5th & Central, 15th & Central, and the intersection of the highways might get more traffic, but have less accidents. What do they have that Domano & Hwy 16 don't have? Left turn signals in all four directions. That might be a factor.

Just beating a dead dog here, but while sitting at the red light last night, waiting to turn left onto Domano, I witnessed a rig, unloaded, blaze through the yellow light coming into town that turned red when it was half way through. Obviously the amber flashing lights did nothing for him, and I suspect that having these lights farther up the hill would not have made any difference either. This truck made big truck shake as it went by and it most certainly was not going the speed limit. In the other direction, I saw at least 6 vehicles racing to get through, all speeding, some on their cell phonesand in most cases the light turned red while they were on their way through, and in 3 cases the light was red before they even entered the intersection and the lights had changed for the other direction.
Now tell me, what kind of change will prevent these light blowers from doing this? None. Nothing. Nada. These are the people who make the mistakes that kill people. ply these people with booze and it just makes it worse. The lights are doing their jobs, the drivers need to do theirs.