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Just How Many Arts Lovers Are There In PG

By Ben Meisner

Thursday, November 27, 2008 03:45 AM

We are often told that the bastion of culture in BC is in the lower mainland. If you want to be where the culture is you need to live in that region.

That all sounds well and good except when you see that the Ballet BC laid off most of its staff this week. That includes the 17 dancers and  office staff.

The ballet company needed to sell 7,000 tickets in order to keep the doors open, they have sold 2,000 so far. Now those sales are taking place in a population base of about 3 ½ million people. The company further said as they dumped their staff that ticket sales from earlier shows have been down.

So what does that do for a region like PG where we have, let’s fudge the figures a bit and say we have, 100,000 people to draw from?

We are looking to spend upwards of 60 million on a new Performing Arts Center.  The business case so far indicates that we will have enough bodies to fill the seats. You immediately wonder who put together the business case because unless the facility caters to a much wider audience than the,”Arts”. What is that case built on?

There have been mumblings that without a Performing Arts Center the professionals such as doctors, University Profs, and educated others will pass on locating in PG.

Those comments in my world are simply rubbish. Oh to be sure there may be some Doc’s who like the Arts , but my experience in this city,  and I can say I do know a lot of them, is that they tend to be more of the average ordinary folk that want to live in PG because of the life style. The Arts don’t tend to be the crowning glory as to why they have located here. Similarly there is a case to be made using the Professionals of the lower mainland and their large numbers that BC ballet should be awash in money, they are not.

Prince George got a university because of some very hard work by a lot of people who are ordinary folks in every sense of the word.  As a matter of fact some of the same people who are pushing the Arts Center did not support the creation of UNBC that is a matter of record. Former Premier Bill Vander Zalm can attest to that. The medical facility came into being as a result of some very hard work by some people that I know are not the Arts type. It is these same people who see the same need for a Cancer facility and they are leading the charge either in front or behind the scene.

The case for a Performing Arts Center needs to be on its merit alone, trying to sugar coat it into something that it is not will only further alienate the people who will pay for it.

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.   


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Comments

great comment Ben. I totally agree!
True enough! Let the people speak - put it to a vote. We have more urgent needs.
I hear the federal gov't is looking for infrastructure projects to help weather the economic downturn. Now is the best time to go and get the money. Get and spend it ! We don't want it all to go to eastern Canada again, and for you rednecks eastern Canada is not "Edmittin". And, when this facility is built hopefully city council will not hobble its success by christian club perversionist rules on having a good time. It will be a lot easier to attract good entertainment if we have a 'right sized' facility.
Couldn't have said it better myself Ben. I too totally agree. THANK YOU!!!
In Vernon the PAC has become a more well rounded facility that attracts a wide variety of acts from rock to jazz to opera etc. To say that the PAC would be for ballet lovers only is short sighted. We do not have a good modern facility here in Prince George. The Vernon facility manages to keep very busy and only draws from 1/2 the population of Prince George.
You hit it right on the button Ben!! Thank you once again. We need to concentrate on getting more doctors, the cancer clinic and more affordable housing!! These are the "things we need". The 60 million dollar arts centre is in the list of "things that would be nice"!!! Now is not the time to be borrowing and spending money with the financial situation the way it is. The new council should of shelfed this!!!
"In Vernon the PAC has become a more well rounded facility that attracts a wide variety of acts from rock to jazz to opera etc. To say that the PAC would be for ballet lovers only is short sighted"

Thank you for pointing this out. Anyone who thinks that a PAC would cater ONLY to ballet and stage shows, simply hasn't thought about what they are saying. Either that or they are extremely ignorant on how a building like this could be utilized (which isn't much better).

As for attracting docs, I agree with Ben than one facility alone will not accomplish that. What that one facility would do, however, is ADD to the things that we do have and help make the city a more attractive place overall. I'm not sure how anyone in their right mind could argue that a city with diverse entertainment options and a diverse culture, is less attractive that a town that has nothing more than a hockey rink and a race track.
I too agree, Ben! An excellent article. I always enjoy the plays at Theatre North West and they do very well without a $60 million expenditure.
May I suggest that those who want a Performing Arts Center find the money privately and stay out of the taxpayer's pockets!
Whelen:"I hear the federal gov't is looking for infrastructure projects to help weather the economic downturn. Now is the best time to go and get the money. Get and spend it !"

I fully agree. BUT, I want any grant moneys to be used for really pressing issues:

Housing for the homeless, better sidewalks, better street lighting, safer intersections, more policing, etc etc. We already have an excellent facility with close to 800 seats plus various smaller ones. A mega PAC at this time is just a bad idea.

After having said all this I just can't shake the feeling that somehow we will get it jammed down our throats anyways...against all common sense and reality.
It is not about the size of the population or its location as we see in the town of Athabasca, AB (pop. 2575), who have supported a performing arts centre for 25 years.

It is time the Prince George population made the connection between the arts and good health. Prevention of mental and physical health disorders should be a focus and the arts can help. Consider these studies among many:
"To singers and others in the arts who are news-attentive, it seems that the evidence just keeps rolling in: Arts participation is good for your health....Cohen found clear differences in the health of seniors involved in the arts programs and those in
the control groups. The intervention group, for example, reported an average of 30 FEWER visits to the doctor"
http://www.gettinhigherchoir.ca/community-info/singing/singing-and-health/the-singing-health-connection.pdf
see also:
http://www.healtharts.org/about-health-arts-society

There are plenty of people in Prince George who see the value in the Performing Arts Centre. It is a shame that the arts have been tossed aside in our schools and community. Even if it isn't your interest, try to see the value in it. I hate hockey, but I see the value in our community teams and facilities. Come'on Prince George, wake up!
The Arts Centre should be built because it's "good for our health"???? PLeeeaaassse!
Improved air quality, more doctors & better access to health care, the Cancer Clinic.....THESE things are
BETTER for our health! Let's get our priorities straight here!
Between CN Centre, PG Playhouse, Vanier Hall, Theatre Northwest....we can already accomodate a variety of events ("from rock to jazz to opera").....and none of those facilities are used to capacity. And, some of them already use our tax dollars...because they aren't self-sufficient financially. So...like I said...let's get our priorities straight....especially in this tough economic climate. Fund it PRIVATELY or don't do it at all...until such time as we have addressed (and PAID FOR) our other more important needs!!!!!
AMEN Brother. An arts centre would be nice, but is it more important than a cancer clinic?
metalman.
I suppose a PAC would would add more entertainment for the people of Prince George. BUT at 50 or 60 million is that realistic?

The city aready has a debt of about 200 million. We were just saddled with a 4% levy to maintain our streets. In the last two years We have had a tax increase of about 16%. Most of the public facitlities we have operate in the red. Bylaws are not enforced. And the list goes on and on for the needed maintenance of our infrasturcture.

The City has suffered from missmanagsment for a number of years. Do we want that to continue or is it time we started to look for fisical responsibility? When will we wake up and realise that PG has only 72,000 people and quit thinking like we have 250 thousnad or more.

Cheers
Hey Metalman....that would be "Amen SISTER"!!! lol
I don't think we should be pitting a cancer clinic against a performing arts centre. I believe a cancer clinic is badly needed. But let's not toss aside a centre that would be for the performing arts. If we can't do both at once then let's at least plan for the other.
Ben, I agree 100%
I am wondering if anyone knows anything about the details of the statement that some of the same people who are pushing the Arts Center did not support the creation of UNBC.

I would think that the same can be said of the Cancer Clinic, that some of those who pushed for that (we no longer have to push for that I believe since we are getting it) also did not support the creation of UNBC.

There was an individual at the SMART growth presentation last night who was wondering how, in these economic times, they could be taking about alternate energy projects, flood control projects, housing and transportation design tendencies over the next 20, 30, and 40 years when the economy is in the shape it is in. How could we possibly pay for that?

So, the world stops, does it? More thinking like that and we can be assured, the world will stop not just for a fleeting moment, but for a new dark age.

The arts and sciences will then be nurtured in remote enclaves by those who can fend for themselves while the rest of the world tries to get a grip on their depressed situation. Great movie script. The more doom and gloom we get out there, the more we will inch closer to that.
After reading all these comments, I am on the "fence". If it did go to a referendum I have no idea how I would vote...both sides of the argument seem reasonable.
It is just another ploy to get some money and the excuse is art center now. I suppose both Art Center and Cancer clinic can be started as part of under utilized resources in UNBC, and if the UNBC project collapses, at least the buildings have some other use. Universities have performed art for the public and just look at UBC hospitals for cancer facilities.

I don't know about those who opposed the creation of UNBC, but UNBC has been missing its performance targets for the past few years and the gap has widened despite all the media spin. According to UNBC report under accountability framework [see http://www.unbc.ca/reports/]:

UNBC's actual FTE for 2004/05 was 2973 students and UNBC's actual FTE for 2007/08 was 2976 students. It means that over 3 years period, UNBC has created only 3 student seats in UNBC after getting around 60 Mil in funding. 20Mil Dollars for each student seat is damn very expensive. How much is needed for Art center seats?

For 2007/2008, the FTE target for UNBC was 3268 students. i.e. UNBC is about 9% short of target [3268-2976=292]. In 2004/05 the target was less than 3114 students and UNBC was around 100 students [3.5%] short of target in 2004/05. So the gap has gradually widended from 3.5% in 2004/05 to 9.0% in 2007/08. So those who opposed UNBC may point to these numbers. Has BC government specified a red line for UNBC missing its targets or it is going to lower the bar for UNBC?

The reports also give stats for some target programs in UNBC that UNBC got special funding and among them Computer Science in UNBC is underperforming massively. According to the report in 2005/06, UNBC was expected to have 224 Computer Science undergrad FTE students and it had only 75 FTE students. 2006/07 the total number of Computer Science students remained the same in UNBC and the target gap the same. How much millions UNBC got from government to create those 224 targeted student seats and what UNBC did with that money remains a mystry. The irony is that according to the report the numbers in Computer students in 2004/05 were around 40 students more than 2005/06 and 2006/07 [i.e. 40-50% higher a year before].

I hope Art center won't become another story like UNBC in Prince George and the government must spend BC tax money more responsibly.

** annual numbers are 3 years averages.
Write "UNBC" and Nowicki bites.
"It means that over 3 years period, UNBC has created only 3 student seats in UNBC after getting around 60 Mil in funding. 20Mil Dollars for each student seat is damn very expensive."

Anyone else see anything wrong with the logic behind this math? Hate to see him balance a chequebook.
Ben is 100% right and there is nothing
to argue about it.
Thank you Ben for speaking for us.
Jesus said that there will always be poor people, homeless, disadvantaged and folks that just can't get it together, not verbatim, but you get the idea. The idea is there will always be crime, bad intersections, pot holes, and the chances of world peace are miniscule. So knowing this, how much resource should be put into it. It is a bottomless pit, no amount of money or thoughtful prayer can fill it. Public buildings are for all the public and if constructed well will last many generations. We have to get away from the logging camp mentality and put down quality infrastructure that will attract and keep citizens in the area.
Well, the art center is asking for 60Mil. My point is that the government gave an extra 60Mil over the past few years to UNBC "in addition" to the normal budget that UNBC gets every year and the outcome of this extra 60Mil money was 3 extra seats. If the government knew this outcome would they have invested in UNBC or invest in Art center, homelessness, addiction, you name it?
Well, the art center is asking for 60Mil. My point is that the government gave an extra 60Mil over the past few years to UNBC "in addition" to the normal budget that UNBC gets every year and the outcome of this extra 60Mil money was 3 extra seats. If the government knew this outcome would they have invested in UNBC or invest in Art center, homelessness, addiction, you name it?
Great things have never been done by small thinkers. We should be pleased at whats going on at UNBC and make every effort to continue its success. So what I am hearing from Nowicki is that the 60mil is for only 3 more opportunities for education, the whole community benefits with the latest addition to the complex.
Whelen , who is Jesus and where does Jesus fit into things?
Is Jesus going to pay for the new PAC?
Does Jesus carry a shovel and asphalt repair manual?
Does Jesus know how to drive? If Jesus knows how to drive will he be teaching those that don't, how to?
I think Jesus might take exception to you claiming the people of PG have a logging camp mentality. After all wasn't it Jesus that made logging camps and the people that think that way?
What exactly is wrong with keeping our fair town as a logging camp.
The majority don't want our town looking like a Vancouver or an Edmonton. Why the need to attract all these new people here.
If I had my way I would prefer if they all just stayed away thank you.
"What exactly is wrong with keeping our fair town as a logging camp"

In a nutshell, because it's 2008 not 1960. To be blunt, if we don't build a city that responds to what most people in 2008 and beyond want, the city will die in 20-30 years along with the people that hung on to what we "used" to be. Change truly is constant and you can't behave like you are in a bubble while it is occuring all around you.

If you compare a 1960's PG to a 2010 PG, it will be quite obvious that our path along that continuim of change is already entrenched. Just stop and think about it for a minute. The biggest achievements for PG that come to mind in recent memory are UNBC, the Multiplex/Aquatic Centre/Art Gallery, the health care rally at the Plex and the Cancer Care Clinic. None of these came as a result of a "loggng camp" mentality. They came because people wanted to grow Prince George and move forward from that "mill town" label that has been bestowed upon us for decades. We should not be uncomfortable with that path, we should celebrate it.
Jesus is a fictional character that I use as a poker to get you riled up.
"The majority don't want our town looking like a Vancouver or an Edmonton. Why the need to attract all these new people here.
If I had my way I would prefer if they all just stayed away thank you."

I agree with this statement. I do not want PG to become an Edmonton or a Vancouver. Those who do are the people who moved from those big cities and now they want to change our city to be like their city. I choose PG because it is small and truthfully, it is a redneck, logging town & I like it that way. If we want to spend all those millions on something, lets spend it on education and health care. If I wanted to go to a PAC, I'd go to those other big cities.
We have the ills of the big city but have only started seeing the positives. The PAC will attract good acts and all the peakerhead music you can stand as well as Metallica , who by the way is in Vancouver this week-end, I assure you a lot of PG dollars are been spent there. Don't mention the CN center , its an acoustical nightmare
Hey Shamrock girl aka Sister! Because of the blindingly slow pace of my typing, my post was slow in respnse to Ben's editorial, my bro' comment was meant for Ben, but you can be my sis' anytime sweetie!
metalman.
"The majority don't want our town looking like a Vancouver or an Edmonton. Why the need to attract all these new people here.
If I had my way I would prefer if they all just stayed away thank you."

OMFG!
What does your god have to do with it Death?
The empty sport center up in the hill and down the hill crime infested downtown speaks loudly enough for anyone who has spent a few months in PG. You don't need to be Einstein to understand this reality.

When the waves of the looming recession in Canada reaches the BC shores, we will pay for the wasteful spending of the Liberals in power in BC and the absence of check and balances in their budget books. Last time the money from Hong Kong immigrants saved BC. This time God saves us from this economic storm.
My god's dick is HUGE!
srsly, why would you want this town to stay as an overgrown logging camp? It will never grow to the size of Ed or Van or even Victoria, the remote, ice-bound location will see to that.
"why would you want this town to stay as an overgrown logging camp?"

Because we like that way.
Sorry, a typo "Because we like it that way"
Can't imagine you're in the majority. I could be wrong.
I assume you guys are fairly ancient?
My guess is that most people that live in PG and area that moved here from concrete money sucking jungles such as Edmonton and Vancouver are here because the big city is like a virus.

We don't want that virus here. Thats why most people move away from the big city.
Most growth in cities is the direct result of human greed.

Putting a stop to unnecessary projects such as the PAC is one step in killing the virus.

Oh ya Death, do you really think your comment above is really something that needs to be posted here?
Grow up man!
Lost - I agree with a lot of your posts & wasn't trying to insult (I refer to myself as 'ancient') Older people just seem to be more resistant to change (which is inevitable). For PG to jump to the size of Edmonton couldn't happen in 20 lifetimes but if we don't go forward we are going backwards.
"Can't imagine you're in the majority"

Nor can I. Based on the opinions of most people I talk to and socilaize with, the further we can move away from the "mill town" mentality the better.

"For PG to jump to the size of Edmonton couldn't happen in 20 lifetimes but if we don't go forward we are going backwards."

Let us assume 20 generations instead of lifetimes. A generation is generally considered to be 20 years. 20 of those is 400 years. 400 years backwards takes us to the founding of Quebec City by the French. Edmonton did not exist.

The Edmonton population was around 77,000 in 1930. In 2008, the City population is just under 10 times that.

PG is milder than Edmonton, which a lot of people conveniently forget. PG is closer to outdoor amenities, which a lot of people conveniently forget.

The major difference? Edmonton is the capital. PG is nowhere near the capital. There are other industrial differences as well, but they played a minor role till about 20 years ago.

Alberta population distribution policies are different than BC's. Geography plays a part in that. With a few tweaks here and there PG can start towards a gradual growth to become a city of a million by 2100. It could actually be quite a nice city due to its topography and location. 2.5 hours by bullet train to the northern part of the 50 million urban agglomeration of Vancouver-Seattle-Portland which will have overtaken the, by then, stagnating population of Los Angeles.
Thanks Metalman...I'll hold you to that!
I agree with Shamrock in that we already have a number of facilities in Prince George for the Arts. The Civic Centre, and Judy Russells Dance Studio wasnt mentioned.

I suspect a lot of people in Prince George have not attended many if any functions and therefore really do not know what they are talking about when it comes to facilities for various venues, including the Arts.

You cannot make a comparison to an Arts Centre in Vernon, unless you ask the question; Does Vernon have;

1. A Colisium for skating, and Hockey
2. A skating rink such as we have on the Hart Hiway.
3. Kin One, Two, and Three, for skating and other venues.
4. CN Centre for various venues, plus WHL Hockey
5. Theatre Northwest
6. Vanier Hall
7. Playhouse Theatre
8. Civic Centre
9. Huge Library
10. Brand new Art Centre
11. Discovery Place
12. Railway Museum
13. Judy Russell Dance Centre
14. Northern Sports Centre.

Do you get my drift. Prince George is overloaded with under utilized facilities, most of which were built more for the construction jobs than for an actual need.

We now have people playing volleyball at the Northern Sport Centre. Does this mean that less people will be playing this sport at the Civic Centre, which was one of the reasons we built a new Civic Centre.
The same thing applies to Basket Ball. Practically every school has a court, plus
CNC, Plus UNBC. Way more courts that players.

There is absolutely no need for a PAC in this town. The whole concept is pure unadulterated BS.
Palopu, you conveniently forget that Vernon is 50 to 55 km north of Kelowna. No big deal to drive there for whatever your heart desires that Vernon does not have.

Vernon is the northern end of what will shortly be a linear city from there to Penticton, a total distance just short of the distance from here to Quesnel, all along 4+ lane highway to be completed for the total distance within a couple of years.

The dynamics actually are such that Vernon should have a difficult time supporting a theatre of that size and calibre. Quite the opposite picture you are trying to present.
"With a few tweaks here and there PG can start towards a gradual growth to become a city of a million by 2100."

gus were you on drugs when you wrote this?
PG's population has been declining and the
more rapid decline in younger population suggests that the population will go further down in next generation. This contrasts with increasing population in Kelowna region.

My barber in PG relocated to Kelowna for more opportunities for shaving more heads. PG would be very lucky to be on the map by 2100 at its present population.

Gus. The reference to Vernon having a PAC was made by someone else in these posts. My point was that Vernon may very will have a PAC, but they probably do not have all the other facilities that we have, and if they did, they probably would not have built the PAC.