I for one would love to see Harper ousted on his butt...He can go join Mr Bush. Neither are worth much in my opinion. and in the spring they can may a threesome with Campbell.

Harper is a 3 time loser at the polls as he could not get a majority. I dont care how many seats he got as he only has 38% of the total vote. That means 62% think he is wrong for this country. Coalition governments have precedence and merit in this country.

How in God's name can anyone have any confidence in Harper and Flaherty after such a foolish "economic update"? Why did they have the update at all? Seems to me that their ideology trumps every smart thought they may have --- that being said they cannot be counted on to handle serious economic problems if they cannot predict that such an economic update would cause them political problems.

I have yet to hear Jack Layton yippin' on the news about this proposed coalition is he supportive of it or not?...sure Broadbent & Cretien are talking, isn't that a pair of has-beens sitting around speculating?

It would be political suicide for the NDP to jump in bed with the Liberals....and would spell the end of the measly 37 seats they now hold. IMO

Whether I like Harper or not doesn't matter. The fact is that we just had an election, and his party is the one that got the most votes. What makes Dion (whose party doesn't want him) and Layton think that we want them now when we didn't want them 6 weeks ago?

Let the government govern, and bring them down with due democratic process when the time comes, not with schoolyard tactics.

The left in Canada has now sunk to back room deals and treachery to obtain the power they couldn't win in an open election. This is the most disgusting display of deceit I have ever seen. I hope this backfires at the next election and the Conservatives get a huge majority and just take away the party subsidies instead of asking. I guess the left in Canada and that includes its supporters don't care that more people voted for the Conservatives then any other party.

Our federal government has become nothing more than a circus with the MPs taking the role of the clowns. They just cost us $300 million for a needless election. That money could have helped a lot of Canadian projects. Will we ever see responsible, mature, respectful government in Ottawa? I don't think any of them are interested in governing Canada. Rather, they are looking after their greedy selves, pushing for position at the trough, like a bunch of hogs!

And we thought American politics were exciting! Now we really have something to think about Harper brought this on himself with his proposals to eiminate support for political parties, forbidding public servants to strike and whatever else it was. He should have been dealing with the economy; he is the one playing games. I, for one, am happy to see the Liberals and NDP getting some life in them. I don't belong to any party.

While were at it why not raise the stakes one level higher and say lets have a coalition of the willing for a good cause... rather than a partisan political agenda?

All like minded MP's subscribing to these Canadian middle class values, all now are willing to sign on (from all four parties), and act as a coalition government... to be dissolved in 36 months after passing the following mandate as issued by its founding independent Members of Parliament.

It would be a mass dump of the political parties as the genus of the MP's value loyalty. In its place a political coalition with a sunset clause to its very existence with the political parties looking in from the outside and everyone in Canada other than the party insiders coming out the better for it.

As for the current plan? The parties involved don't have a plan other than power... but I think Harper blew his trust factor using an emergency economic package to make changes to the way our political system operates in a transparent aggressive partisan attempt to gain personal political advantage in a time of crisis. That was dangerous for democracy... and the arguments used to defend the ploy were reprehensible.

Harper's original appeal was that he would reform the democratic process for the better... and do this in an open and up front manor.

Harper's reality has been anything but that. I first realized he wasn't the man he claims to be when he defended the Israeli bombing of the Canadian peacekeeping outpost (killing a brave Canadian peacekeeper) in Lebanon during the Lebanon war, which he also supported. Harper is a neocon ideolog first... and a Canadian second IMO. For me that is good enough to see him removed from power until someone with more moral fiber can be found.

That said I do not think Dion can be the replacement PM, as he is a duel citizen and they can not IMO ever be allowed to be a Prime Minister of our country. Only Canadians should be PM of Canada.

PS The MP that puts forward the good cause coalition bill for a vote in the house and has the votes to get it pass... gets to be the next Prime Minister of Canada in this potential hypothetical Ottawa.

Its hypothetically constitutional in the real world, so why not I wonder?

Let us not forget a couple of things. Firstly, the current Tory party is a Progressive Conservatives and Reform-Alliance coalition, coming as a result of numerous "unite the right" campaigns. I recall that Mckay promised never to unite with the Reform Alliance group, then after an election did a back room deal with them to form the present party. Isn't sauce for the goose also sauce for the gander?

Secondly, Harper is in favour of coalition governments. In 2004, when Paul Martin was elected as Prime Minister, he sent a letter to the Governor General which said:

"As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government’s program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated."

That letter was also signed by Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton. Now that the tables have been turned it becomes objectionable, but where were the objectors when Harper wanted to use our constitutuin to become Prime Minister without an election? Completely absent, were they not?

Apparently it is perfectly OK for Harper to be in an agreement with the separatists and social democrats, but not for anybody else to do so. That is political hypocrisy at its worst, in my book.

Thirdly, we did not elect Harper as Prime Minister, we voted for individual MPs. In our system the party with the most MPs gets to form a government, and that has already happened. However, under our parliamentary system, if a government is defeated on a confidence motion, and that has NOT happened yet to the Conservatives, other parties can be invited to form a government if they can get enough support from MPs to survice a confidence motion. There does not need to be a full coalition as that is what "minority" government means. As long as the Bloc votes to support any coalition it can legitimately govern. That is Canadian law, live with it.

All MPs are equal. Conservative MPs have no more rights or priveleges than any other. Like it or not, the Bloc MPs were elected to represent Canadian voters in a Canadian parliament. They are as fully entitled as any other MPs to support or not support a particular motion in the House. Just because you and I find their desire to bring Canada as we currently know it to an end reprehensible, does not deprive them of their right to participate in lawmaking in Parliament. I would suggest, in fact, that refusing to allow them the same priveleges as any other MP would be seen as an attempt to cast them as second class legislators and would further their cause of separatism in Quebec.

Rights do not always coincide with what we want, but they are RIGHTS, things we are not permitted to deny, and MPs from all parties can support or not support Harper. That is their right as elected representatives. You and I can express our opinion on the matter in the next election - that is our right.

Nice throw back at Harper of his own words and actions while in opposition. Thanks ammonra.

I read yesterday that it was actually the NDP and the Bloc who were talking together. People keep forgetting, or do not realize, that the Bloc's politcal leanings are the same as the NDP's and so have a lot more in common than they do with the Liberals. Together, their numbers are slightly greater than the Liberals, so they wield a bit more power if they have they speak from the same page when they talk with the Liberals.

The Conservatives are not lying still while all this is happening. Their machine is fanning out into the public media to tell their story via their supporters. Here is an example from the Montreal Gazette.

http://communities.canada.com/montrealgazette/blogs/onthehill/archive/2008/11/29/coming-soon-to-radio-stations-near-you-and-newspapers-and-e-mail-etc.aspx

"The Conservatives are revving up their party machine to try to win the high stakes game of political chicken they triggered with the tabling of their fiscal update Thursday. While Liberals, New Democrats and the Bloc Québécois discuss ways to form a coalition government, the Conservatives are calling on their grassroots members to bombard radio stations, newspapers and the internet with messages backing the Conservative position.

For those uncertain what to say, the Conservatives are providing handy dandy talking points and convenient lists of local radio stations, newspapers and all of their coordinates."

As far as how to deal with the economy goes, that is another story.

We have to remember that we are riding on the coat tails of the USA, whether we like it or not. This is not the first time this is happening with a recession. Read the newspapers that have been put on line now from PG prior to the 1960s or so. There was a recession in 1953 as well as 1957. Specific to the 1957 one, the words were the same, Canada was much stronger than the USA financially, but were affected anyway. The solution? Buy wisely, but don't stop buying since that will only make matters worse.

Jumping off the cliff is not exaclty the way to see one's way through this. Get a ramp and ramp down over time in one kind of spending, and ramp up towards another kind of spending.

Stop spending, and we might as well fold up the tent and go home. One way or another money has to keep moving. The amount does not have to grow, but it must keep moving.

Indeed this IS a difficult country to govern!

A bit more insight into the intrigue.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081130/national/fiscal_update_tape

As I understand it from Gus' recommendation above, an unidentified Conservative taped an NDP Caucus meeting. Then Harper's office released the tape to the press, thereby acknowledging their complicity in the taping.

Caucus meetings are supposed to be confidential so that people can speak openly in order to reach a decision on something. That Conservative, if he really was included by accident, should have identified himself. That would have been the ethical thing to do. Even if he did not, the Prime Minister's office should not have given the recording to the press. That was an unethical move.

Yet people want these unethical yahoos in charge of Canada. Is Harper so desperate to keep power that he is willing to throw basic, fundamental decency out of the window?

Wow, I am shocked to see so many people on here with opinions contrary to Mr. Meisner's. Seems like the Tories really dropped the ball on this one, and the majority of people are in favour of the coalition. It will be an interesting week or so.

For an interesting take on this issue, check out this site.

http://www.strategicthoughts.com/

Wolfie. Please remember that no single party has a majority (over 50%) on their own. The Conservatives have the most of any party, that is the best way to describe it. In order to govern, they have to pull in at least 30 more votes. They can make an alliance with any one party or hope that people will break ranks in several parties. In order to do that, they have to be serious about making some compromises. It sounds like they are not serious about that. The NDP and BQ are continuing to play politics as they did with the Conservatives when the Liberals were the party with the single largest number but no majority.

For the Conservatives to cry foul is rather ludicrous, but it seems to be the best they can do. That says a lot about their inability to govern in a minority situation.

A coalition government would be a disaster. These parties have only one thing in common, their overwhelming desire for power! Once in power they could never work together, resulting in endless bickering and backroom deals and ultimately an ineffective government that would result in another costly election for us taxpayers to pay for. We just spent millions to have the people of Canada reaffirm our support for the current government. The loosing parties and their supporters have four years to attempt to form a coalition to run at the next election and attempt to gain power in a democratic process.
Those would support a power grab by any other process have your head in the sand and would likely deserve the government they would get!

Gus, I am quite aware that the opposition collectively makes up the majority. I was merely observing that most of the posts on here seem to be pro-coalition. I have been following this story closely and believe that this trend exists across the country. Reading some of the comments on the website of The Globe and Mail, which, being based in Toronto and having over 1000 comments posted on the story, is about as different from Opinion 250 as you can get, shows that it isn't just people in Northern BC who seem okay with the idea of a coalition.

I think everyone is just tired of Harper's games. Bring on a new leader for the CPC.

wolfie,
surely you are not suggesting layton or dion are capable of leading the country.
between the two of them i don't think they could run a dollar store.

Whether Dion or Layton is capable of running a dollar store or not is hardly relevant. Only one thing is relevant, that being Harper is obviously totally incapable of running Canada.

at least we are not in a deficit situation.
when we do go in the red we are the ones who have to pay our way out of it through higher taxes.

by the way, the billions of dollars pumped into the financial systems around the world do not seem to be kick starting anything.so why would it make sense for canada to try the same thing?

What this is all about is taxpayer funding to these parties being eliminated. It may be dirty pool since most of the parties are broke , with the exception of the Cons. They have grass roots support that actually donate. Soemthing the Libs would love to have. I haven't seen the Libs this fired up in ages. I guess pigs will squeel loud if you pull away the trough.

Any suggetion that Harper can't run the country is partisan BS. Anyone who thinks that Layton ,Dion and Duceepe would govern this country better than Harper is sniffing glue.

Polar, I am not suggesting anything. I am just trying to give my view of what I perceive public opinion to be on this matter.

I do have some comments for a few of your points, however:

We are definitely in a deficit situation. Numerous economists are saying that it is unavoidable based on projected government revenues and expenditures. Even Flaherty's own numbers, which project a thin surplus somehow, balances the books only by selling $10 billion of government assets (buildings, etc.). This is selling our assets when it is definitely a buyers' market out there, and as such is not getting the taxpayer the best return on our investments. Foolish move in my opinion... it is just a way for Flaherty to say things are technically balanced. Of course, when we sell government buildings, we will have to lease office space in these or other buildings. In other words, instead of paying interest payments on $10 billion of debt, we will be paying rent inside $10 billion worth of buildings. How is this different? Would you rather be a homeowner with a mortgage or a renter?

Also, remember when Flaherty was Minister of Finance in Ontario for the Mike Harris bunch there, he told everyone that the budget was balanced, but when the next government got in they found out that it was nowhere near balanced. As a result, they had to raise taxes in order to break even. Who is to say Flaherty isn't doing that again, even with the sale of the taxpayers' assets?

Read my lips politicos, NO BAIL OUTS!
The citizens of this country did not share in the profits from the big 3 automakers.
So we should not be footing the bill for their management follies. They would nopt share profits, we will not encourage them to continue as in the past creating economical nonviable, environmental nonviable and uncompetitive vehicles. The people of Canada want a vehicle that does not support the oil industry. We just want to be able to go to work and to visit family and friends without costing an arm and a leg.
Build a viable and affordable electric car.
Don't build one that actually does highway speeds and then price it out of reach for most consumers, then call it a unsellable.
Make available a priced to sell then see what really happens.

All the MLA's elected in this country should have a secret vote on weather or not the govt. should be desolved. And before they hold that vote each MLA should poll or otherwise find out what the majority of their constituants would have that MLA vote. I think it should be the people decide not party politics.

I never thought I would ever say this; but I am now convinced that this country is too large and diverse to have one central government. The bloc sitting in parliment is a perfect example of this.

It makes me sick to see what our federal party system has become and it apparently is not going to get any better any time soon.

Our federal political parties have become so much more important to themselves than all the people of Canada that they are willing to destroy everything in the process.

I say that for any self respecting MP of any party that they should resign from their party and sit as independents.
The public all across the country should demand this of their MP.

Either the party system goes or the country goes to pieces..a maritime piece, a Quebec piece, an Ontario piece and a western piece, and who knows what the territories will do.

To sit by this moronic and contemptuous parliment system of spitballing each other while the country goes to waste cannot continue.

What are they thinking:

Dion: I am a lame duck leader, but I will be PM, if only for a few months. Take that Liberal Party!

Layton: Power Power Power - Spend Spend Spend. Ego Ego Ego

Duceppe: More perks for Quebec.



Harper's arrogance brought this situation about. He deserves it. Unfortunately, we, the nation, do not.

Layton-born in Quebec
Duceppe-born in Quebec
Dion-born in Quebec

So much for the West wanting in...

Harper born in Ontario. So whats your point?

It's time for Excellency Michelle Jean to lay down the law and force these elected MP's to get along, get back to work or fire them.

Any business person would not put up with these types of shannanigans for more than a day or two. Same advice. Get along, get back to work, or your fired.

The situation in our country is serious and the opposition are more concerned about funding their party's advertising campaigns. Let their actions, their production and their efforts do the advertising for them.

I am so fed up with the behavior of our elected politicians that I would like to fire half of them. They make me sick to my stomach. They have some of the most important positions in the country and this is the way they behave. Absolutely discusting.

Let's ask the Governor General to intervene in this situation. It's obvious that our members of parliament are not able to manage themselves.

herbster...my bad for not realizing that Harper was not born out west. My point is that politics had somewhat tilted west for a change because of the Conseritives and it appears that may be lost. That being said Harper brought this on his party with that bone headed move of taking away the money for votes in the last election. Suddenly just when we need the politicians the most they are concentrating of us the least. Federal politics will be front and centre with us until May when we get to deal with the provincial election...no wonder not many people votes

This is amazing. Who would have thought that proposing to cut some of the taxpayer funding for ALL parties would bring this coalition together. 3 political enemies form an alliance when their funding get's cut......wait for it.... to save the country....with separatists having the hammer.

Didn't see this coming.

I agree dow7500... and just think of the possibilities. I like Woodchoppers suggestion the best so far... about all MP's serving as independents.

Why not have the Governor General just declare the parties themselves dysfunctional and a threat to good governance. Call it a grand coalition of all parties, and have all MP's vote in secret ballots for all the cabinet positions. Mix them all up on the floor (good for brawls, or cooperation... interesting experement?) so you have ndp, bloc, liberal, and conservative MP's all side by side with no bearing on political affiliation and set the election date for 4-years from the last one. Michelle Jean could make it so I do believe.

The absolute worst that could happen would be nothing gets done. I think right now that wouldn't be such a bad thing on the dawn of the new global wars. A grand coalition would not be in a position to partake in voluntary adventures... and domestic politics would be lifted from the veil of party interest politics... both are good things for Canada IMO.

eagleone...why secret ballots?
I for one would like it be known who votes for what, especially my MP.

Perhaps when people actually have the ability to see and have democracy actually take place for longer than election day that accountability might take place.

Deadbeat MPs or ones which do not represent the wishes of their constituents
would be seen for what they are and given the boot as deserved.

I agree woodchipper that all votes on parliamentary bills and everything else an MP votes on should be transparent... but if the whole House voted for the cabinet positions... then it involves personal relationships, and the cabinet should have good relations with all members regardless of what each members choice was for the cabinet postings. Vote totals for the nominees should be published, but when we vote in a voting both we don't have to show our personal ballot for some of the same reasons parliamentarians should not have to do that when deciding on a cabinet of their colleges (which in a lot of cases involves run off ballots ect and such).

I think keeping the ballots for cabinet posts secret, if voted on by parliament as a whole, would reduce the chance for bribery enforcement against our elected MP's when selecting the countries leadership.

I could be wrong and would be interested in the opposing argument?