L E T   'E R    R I P !!!

I wonder if the 18 senators Harper plans to appoint is his idea of an olive branch to the opposition. Jay Hill has recently stated
"I’m not saying it will be easy to keep this minority Parliament on track but Canadians have told their elected representatives that stability is essential in the midst of these difficult economic times."
Perhaps its time Conservatives reined in their leader for the good of the country. But I think we're headed for another election.

From the Globe and Mail this morning
"OTTAWA — The Harper government approved 25 appointments to federal pension tribunals and employment insurance boards a day after it tabled an economic statement that nearly led to its defeat in the House of Commons.

Government records show the appointments, all to agencies that are used as traditional patronage rewards for party faithful, went through cabinet on Friday, Nov. 28, as opposition outrage over the Conservative plan began building."

Unfortunately I agree about another election. As soon as the budget is voted on , it will be turned down and another election happens..
I take everything Jay Hill says with a grain of salt. He is a good talker but says little in my opinion.

Does it surprise anyone that Gordo & his Maniacs are underreporting the true costs of the Olympics by $ 170 million [sofar]? Add in the close to a billion for the convention centre and all the other hidden costs that will come to light when it is time to pay up and this province will sink under a sea of dept. Maybe Gordo should get a preggers test now before he ends up like Drapeau.

Turns out Rio Tinto borrowed $40 billion last year to buy Alcan and now they can't pay their debts because of commodity markets unless they sell off some of the assets, which they don't like doing in a down market. In addition to the asset sales they also plan to cut 14,000 jobs.

It looks to me like Kemano is for sale for the right price and BC Hydro would be politically interfered with if not already preparing a bid for those assets... so that BC can consolidate its hydro infrastructure under the crown agency... and BC can once again could have full sovereignty over our water resource.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article5316915.ece

Carpet bagging at it's finest,there is a certain athletic/yoga retailer that was somehow able to come in to PG for 6 weeks and flog there goods, in my opinion the city shouldn't allow temperary business licences such as this.

Anyone else on here take in the Corb Lund concert last night? I would have hoped that Prince George was beyond the red neck behaviour that some of our fine citizens displayed last night. I wouldn't blame the band if they never played PG again.

Denaljo, critics of the Olympics are overinfalting the true cost of the Olympics as much as the government is overinflating. When finding the true cost, there are many factors and variables, the trade and convention centre is not 100% Olympic expense as this facility will bring millions to the Vancouver economy for years to come. The Sea to Sky highway is not an Olympic expense as this highway despretly needed to be upgaded anyway. In addition to that what have the benefits been thus far, how many workers have been doing construction over the past 3-4 years building the facilities, as far as I know they have been earning many dollars, paying lots of taxes and spending their money in many businesses. So please elaborate what the 'true cost of the olympics' really is.

Zoom, you are correct. Lets face it, we still live in a land of where taxes are what runs this country. When the Federal, Provincial and Municipal funds the project. They know that 60 to 70% of this money is going to go through their coffers again through, GST, PST, income tax, CPP, EI, Corporate tax, Gas tax, property tax, and every other kind of tax that is out there.

I was going to make a submission until I read "lifesucks" comments. I don't even want to be on the same page.

-hartbooks.

-What went down at the corb lund concert? I was going to check it out but im getting sick of the local concert crowd in this town..Looks like my 6th sense payed off this time.

hartbooks, what happened at the concert? A few too many beverages consumed? I saw Corb in Grande Prairie earlier in the year, and it was a fabulous show

Herbster: "I wonder if the 18 senators Harper plans to appoint is his idea of an olive branch to the opposition. "

What kind of an olive branch is it when all the appointees will be Conservatives? And especially if they were promised to be elected and not appointed?

Looks like Harper is on a patronage appointment binge...

Zoom, I agree with what you are saying about 2010. The convention center is already booked for a couple of years after it opens. A lot of them are conventions that would have gone elsewhere. It will be a perpetual money maker, just like B.C. Place Stadium which was built in spite of objections from the opposition.

If Rio Tinto offers to sell Kemano the Province should grab it immediately. I doubt that RT will sell it. It's the crown jewel.

Posted by: Eagleone on December 12 2008 7:07 AM

It looks to me like Kemano is for sale for the right price and BC Hydro would be politically interfered with if not already preparing a bid for those assets... so that BC can consolidate its hydro infrastructure under the crown agency... and BC can once again could have full sovereignty over our water resource.

Eagleone, I think you have not had enough coffee this morning, but alas I shall present a better proposal or rather a predicton of future transactions. Here's where the Times article line of deferring expansion comes into play. Although Kitimat residents probably never fully believed that expansion was going to happen, economic woes have played into the hands of Rio Tinto so to speak.

For one, I don't believe BC Hydro would put themselves into a possible political backlash and battle with the residents of BC. It would rather that Rio Tinto took the brunt of the bashing. The trump card is the economic crisis. This enables RT to lay claim that the demand for ALCAN's final product will be in low demand, subsequently shutting down production at Kitimat's smelter, perhaps only to reduced capacity. Layoffs will be imminent. An outcry allows RT to propose a hydro-electric deal with the promise of no lost jobs. This bodes well with the politcal party and BC Hydro, who in turn claims that we can avoid a Site C temporarily. Now the government says "done deal" under the clause that it is temporary only. With utmost certainty, there is no chance to wrangle or reneg the terms of a temporary agreement.

I know it seems farfetched, perhaps I better have another Java and rethink this.

The 'true cost' of the Olympics will NEVER be known. But it will certainly include billions of dollars wiped out as 'purchasing power' through the inflation of the last seven years its building has helped cause.

We're already 'paying' for that every time we buy something at a higher price, or pay a tax on our household property that's 'assessed' at a higher price than it would have been if such an inflation hadn't taken place. And all out of incomes that have nowhere near kept pace.

And we haven't even begun to start repaying the actual money borrowed to fund the Olympics, and any over-runs, let alone the decades of interest payments we'll be making on that money over decades to come.

Take a look at the rise in OVERALL BC debt over the construction period so far if you doubt me. It is far, far MORE than the stated costs of constructing the Olympics, and ALL the other 'capital' projects that have come on line under Campbell and co.'s tenure, BOTH public and private.

The difference is pure inflation, for that portion of the OVERALL debt didn't go directly into those costs represents a cumulative deficiency of consumer 'purchasing power' incurred over that period.

Some might be making 'more' in the number of 'dollars' they receive. But ALL of us are able to BUY 'less' with our 'dollars'.

This is debt that, in the aggregate, will never be able to be repaid, since to repay it entails the creation of still larger debt. Which our nutty governments are now preparing to do with all the 'stimulus' they're talking about. We're working our way right into bankruptcy. But that's okay to many, as long as we're 'working'. We deserve exactly what we're going to get for our stupidity in refusing to look at changing the current financial system.

"diplomat said:
Herbster: "I wonder if the 18 senators Harper plans to appoint is his idea of an olive branch to the opposition. "

What kind of an olive branch is it when all the appointees will be Conservatives? And especially if they were promised to be elected and not appointed?"

Im pretty sure that Herbster is being sarcastic?! The fact is that if Harper doesnt fill those seats the Liberals will. Harper has tried to get rid of the "waste of resourse sentate" without success so far! Give him a majority and maybe he can. It is a waste of tax dollars. But since the Liberals need the $2 per vote political welfare and they love the Liberal stocked senate the Liberals are fighting tooth and nail.

The B.C.government tells us that the Sea to Sky highway upgrade is NOT an Olympic expense.
More Olympic spin.
If it was not for the IOC telling Vanoc and the B.C. government that the highway was NOT suitable to handle the traffic to and from Whistler,the highway would still be that same way it has been for years.
More fun with numbers to come...stand by!

Why should the Province go into hock further to bail out the likes of Rio Tinto by 'buying' Kemano?

The Kemano power is ONLY good to Rio for the reason we gave Alcan the rights to flood a vast area of the Province in the first place. To smelt aluminum, or pursue some other purpose that uses power at Kitimat. They cannot get it 'out' without transmission lines that connect to the BC Hydro grid, and that puts BC Hydro in the same spot Hydro Quebec is in vis a vis the Churchill Falls power generated in Labrador.

We don't have to 'buy' their 'cow' to have the 'milk'!

Why is that, cobrasnake? Obviously the business doesn't believe that it could be profitable in PG on the long term, but they have a product that people are definitely going to buy over these six weeks. What's the harm anyway, it's specialty clothing. The people wearing it aren't going to opt for something from Sears if the store wasn't around, they'd just head to the nearest location (and trust me, many do!). There's not a local competitor to support and they're filling one of those empty gaps in Parkwood for a month and a half. It's actually surprising that more big name stores don't do this in PG over the holiday season. Am I the only one that has missed hearing about this store being here on the radio or in the paper?

Most of the media are saying that Stephen Harper's appointment of 18 Senators is because if he doesn't do it the Liberals will. On the basis that it is impossible not to communicate, the inferences in that statement are:

a) That Harper expects to lose the confidence vote on his budget after Parliament reconvenes in January.

b)

Socred, The olympics role with normal inflation(which has been occuring since the beginning of time), is about a significant as a zit on my butt.
Andy, you may be right about the sea to sky highway being the same if the olympics were not to happen, which was a dangerous, lousy, high fatality highway...

Sorry.

Most of the media are saying that Stephen Harper's appointment of 18 Senators is because if he doesn't do it the Liberals will. On the basis that it is impossible not to communicate, the inferences in that statement are:

a) That Harper expects to lose the confidence vote on his budget after Parliament reconvenes in January.

b) That the Governor General will ask the Liberals or the coalition to try and form a government, or

c) That she will call an election that Harper expects to lose.

No that should never be allowed to happen pisspulper... but you can be sure that there are people with money and connections that are thinking along those exact lines of thought. That has been their game all along and my comments above were in jest in a way because we all know that if Rio Tinto offered to sell Kemano works for $1 dollar the BC liberals would find a reason why it wouldn't be in the interest for the province of BC to make the investment through BC Hydro.

Political party politics necessitates that critical infrastructure be sold to the approved private sector for profit enterprise. This is because political parties are all about creating blocks to pass legislation and the fabricated consenus required to make party politics work always has a hierarchy calling the shots that can be hi-jacked with the motivation of greed by those on the take. The politics of Illinois and the zionist corruption cabal that was just dealt a blow are the norm more then we would like to think... just think BC Rail privatization for example for how a party hierarchy is allegedly hi-jacked for corrupt greed interests of the few at the infrastructure expense of the many.

The people that have the biggest interest in controlling political outcomes are the people making the most money, and the people making the most money are the people that have artificial monopolies... or some other control of a choke point of critical infrastructure or aspect of the economy.

Its a symbiotic relationship IMO between political parties and control of the engines of the essential infrastructure for the economy... both are motivated by greed at their base... and not the greater free enterprise of equal opportunity that we should expect our infrastructure to serve.

So the long and short is that it would not surprise me the least that the BC liberals or any other party would further privatize our rivers for profits to insider multinational corporations... even go so far as to put on a show to blame the multinationals and circumstance for the cowardly acts they themselves enact. Money and profits motivate a good many politicians and the rest can be distracted with an 'emergency' or some other excitable issue that they would sell their souls for. Think BC liberals doing the run of the river projects, and selling off BC Hydro a piece at a time... and they get away with it yet most people don't support those policies.

I just think its good for people to see that there is another side to the story we have traditionally been sold... and that other possibilities do exist if we had the political will to make it happen.

Rio tinto could be flipped into BC Hydro with cash up front and a guaranteed long term 25-50 year cheep hydro rates for industrial production in the vicinity (which could now include anywhere in the province as an additional carrot). Maybe the province makes no profit up front... but we then control economic development, we control future potential and possibilities, we have sovereignty back over our rivers for the people (think PG flood last winter and in years to come). It means that if millions of hectors of land are going to be under water, then future profits will go to the Crown of BC and not to private for profit interests. For control reasons alone this is a good investment for BC to say nothing of this carbon neutral future profit source of energy for the province as a whole to help supply our clean green grid.

Time Will Tell

Corb Lund Concert

I was ashamed to be from Prince George as I watched the Corb Lund concert.

The first inkling that there was going to be trouble came when Corb Lund asked "Is there any Security in the building? There is a man in front of the stage in a brown shirt whio is punching a yopung woman." There was no obvious response except from the crowd who started to boo.

Corb Lund again asked "Is there any security in this buidling to help?" Again there was no obvious response from Multiplex staff.

Corb Lund then said "Well forget that" and started to play.

Over the next hour or so, at least three people from the crowd jumped on to the stage and attempted to disrupt the concert, by knocking over Corb's guitars, pushing Corb, and runnig across the stage. In each case they were wrestled off the stage by members of Corb's entourage with some help from staff in green Multiplex staff jackets.

It was ditracting to those who wanted to listen to the music, dangerous to the performers and generally the most riduculous and juvenile behaviour that I have witnessed in a oublic place in a long time (granted, I do lead a sheltered life).

Is there no uniformed security in place at CN Centre? Do they have protocol and procedures in place to react to situations such as this? At one point I thought there was going to be a general all out brawl on the floor when opne young man was removed.

I offer my apologies to Corb Lund and his band. Not everyone in PG is a red neck drunken idiot. Most of us are regular, nice people who want to enjoy an evening out.

Totally agree snowmom.

I save for a long time to get to go to a concert and to have idiots like this put such a damper on it just plain sucks.

We didn't stay for any encore that Corb & the band might have come back on to perform - I wanted out of that parking lot before the loonies from the floor got behind the wheel.

I've seen Corb at Vanier hall - and it was never a scene like last night.

They need a higher stage, lots of huge security people, and perhaps biggest of all - no booze.

B.C child proverty,seems we are a the bottom of the pile ,what gives.Spending all this monies on OLYMPICS that is going to benefit who???surly not us in the north.
Bob's yer drunkel [El Gordo] down there in Victoria,[I still do not believe that he got the job after the smilin fool DRUNK,how soon we forget,remember the PIC].I've had enough of the fool,no minimum wage in crease since he has been at the helm,the only time anything gets done is when the media is on his tail.
If it were not for the north-logging, oil and gas,mining,the bridges would all have tolls[in the LML]and a bus ride would be about 10 bucks!!So El gordo tell us why child proverty is so rampant in the best place to live,ya been sucking us dry all these years and I hope most remember this when we go to the polls in May,Hasta la vista baby,now you will be seen and not heard,I hope..

Corb did play an encore.

The woman from the warm up band did a duet with Corb on These Boots are made for Walking, and then Corb played Gonna Shine my Boots, Go INto Town..."

It was a good concert, but not as good as it could have been.

The Sea to Sky highway is not an Olympic venue. It is B.C. highways infrastructure.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the rules are very simple, and those who do not follow the rules will have their comments removed. That is why a couple of comments have been yanked. They crossed the line on the laws of the land.
Also, please watch your language. We are all able to deliver the message without using inflamatory language.

-Elaine Macdonald

Well all the tickets for the 2010 Olympics have been sold.
The big winners are the scalpers, because they got most of the tickets.
now the only way to get tickets is to pay outrageous prices at 5 times or more the original value.
How is this inclusive?
I think they have failed every local who would have liked to gone to support our athletes, instead we will be seeing events devoid of supporters and fans, due to the unavailability of tickets.
The Olympics are supposed to be about amateur sport and the local host community.
Not just the excessive wealthy and selfish.

It has cost BC billions at what benefit?
No permanent jobs, no secondary industry, and no legacy other than over priced and hastily constructed over priced and limited use venues that will fall apart prematurely.

That's too bad about the concert, it's so annoying when a few idiots are able to ruin a fun evening for others. When I saw Corb in GP there was plenty of booze flowing, but it just seemed to fuel loud singalongs and 2-steppers bumping into each other rather than fights. Though the venue was a LOT smaller than the CN Centre. Hopefully the PG concert was the exception and not the rule.

Eagleone, well said and I agree with the majority of your post. Proof of that behaviour is evident in the Kemano 2 fiasco, where the process was halted, then Alcan was paid out and many jobs promised were lost or never came to fruition. Then the subsequent water rights allowances that followed, an onus the government felt obligated to provide. An apology of sorts. However, I suppose that's water under the tunnel now.

But the last paragraph of your post baffles me somewhat. How does this help Kitimat residents, if the smelter, citing my scenario went to reduced or no capacity.
Remember, the deal made does not prevent RT in opting out of Smelting and CAN solely sell power. I could see BC Hydro and our Pooliticians buying into providing or participating in the construction of an energy corridor, certainly timing that with the proposed pipeline corridor would be very beneficial. Providing cheap energy to industrial users could stimulate some industrial and economic benefit, however I fail to see this taking place as BC seems to be labeling itself as a "too many hurdle" province. A reminder that no Hydro power is required to ship raw logs.

That's my rant and you are correct, Time Will Tell.

The Sea to Sky highway is not an Olympic venue. It is B.C. highways infrastructure.


If it was not for the IOC telling Vanoc and the B.C. government that the highway was NOT suitable to handle the traffic to and from Whistler,the highway would still be that same way it has been for years.
More fun with numbers to come...stand by!

I think that answeres your question diplomat

Nooo! No more numbers!

About Kemano and RT and Hydro. The Hydro infrastructure between Kitimat and Terrace cannot handle higher power flows than already delivered into the Hydro grid. Kemano can generate 900 megawatts but only 300 max can be delivered into the Hydro grid. If there is an upgrading of infrastructure between Kitimat and Terrace then there should be worry about the smelter.

Question, how many ex or maybe still current 60's "hippies" on this site? Just asking as we hit our 60's. Ah the music from back then still # 1. Hitch hiking with no worries, times have changed.

Loki,
1)Creating no permanents jobs..these do not exist anywhere in the world (except maybe gov't employees)
2)No secondary Industry.. does tourism, use of convention centre,and other facilities not qualify?
3)Hastily constructed, overpriced facilities that will fall apart prematurely..hmmm, you know all of this how?

Re: Corb Lund Concert
A call to the CN Centre has resulted in the following notes:
-Security was set up according to Corb Lund's request, he didn't want a barricade as he likes the audience to be "close"
-Security removed the rabble rousers from the stage area and had police remove them from the property
-The band says it looks forward to returning to Prince George.

So it would appear that despite the over indulgence and bad behaviour of some, the band is not unhappy, although some concert goers might be.

-Elaine Macdonald

Well, if Kemano is up for grabs, why shouldn't BC Hydro buy it. Guarantee that they will need to buy at least so much power to operate the plant at a set rate. Nailed them down so that they have to buy it and buy the power to operate the plant. No wiggle room.

Yes, security removes the on stage trouble makers, but why did security not respond to Corb's request to remove the man punching the woman? He asked twice, and thenm referred to it about half an hour later again?

If Corb asked for no baricade, then I feel bit less embarassed, because a barricade would likelty have prevented the onstage antics.

"They cannot get it 'out' without transmission lines that connect to the BC Hydro grid"

"About Kemano and RT and Hydro. The Hydro infrastructure between Kitimat and Terrace cannot handle higher power flows than already delivered into the Hydro grid. Kemano can generate 900 megawatts but only 300 max can be delivered into the Hydro grid. If there is an upgrading of infrastructure between Kitimat and Terrace then there should be worry about the smelter"

"Well, if Kemano is up for grabs, why shouldn't BC Hydro buy it. Guarantee that they will need to buy at least so much power to operate the plant at a set rate. Nailed them down so that they have to buy it and buy the power to operate the plant. No wiggle room."

I love animals so I would rather not beat a dead horse, so I'll just tickle it with a feather.

For one, Kemano is not up for grabs. It is primarily under the operation and use/and or ownership of RT Alcan with a few stipulations to BC Hydro, as per the agreement. Now if RT found a feasible and profitable venture, it is in accordance with the agreement that they have the authority and discretion to implement it, not the provincial government or BC Hydro as long as the legal obligation to Hydro is satisfied.

The transmission line obstacle for some seems impossible. Why? I can bet if required, our taxpayers would end up financing this in whole or in part under some guise of job creation during our embattling economic crisis.

Wiggle room? There is no room, the ball bounces favourably to RT's side already, the legal battle secured that. Why would they change or enter new terms into an already favourable agreement?

An update,

http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_north/northernsentinel/news/EXTRA_EXTRA_Work_on_Kitimat_smelter_modernization_to_continue.html

We (meaning the government of the people of Canada) had...how much?? 74 billion in the EI reserve bank until the conservatives dipped into it....now in times of economic uncertainty when the only thing certain is that EI claims are sure to rise due to job losses, it is not known if the government will be able to fund it. Yeah, thanks Harper!

seamutt, here is a site from YouTube where a group of people got together to play "Stand By Me" a hit in the early sixties. It connects to many other great songs on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us-TVg40ExM&eurl=http://thetyee.ca/Video/2008/12/09/OnlineJamming/

I found this at The Tyee at this address

http://thetyee.ca/Video/2008/12/09/OnlineJamming/

Hope you enjoy.

"Question, how many ex or maybe still current 60's "hippies" on this site?"

73 on last count. Only 3 of them post though. Unless, of course, you count the 9 from Saskatoon.

Different topic but one I that totally hit home for me. On CBC they mentioned that BC was fairing the best when compared to all other provinces and territories in this resession yet BC has the highest rate of child poverty.
It is sad and shameful that BC is doing the best on the backs of children! Olympics important, children not. This proves that there is a growing gap between the rich and the poor.

The following is from an article which was posted a couple of hours ago on the CBC News website.

"The federal government and Ontario have reached a deal to offer a proportional aid package to Canada's auto industry if a proposed $14-billion US package is approved in Washington, Industry Minister Tony Clement said Friday."

The link to this article is:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/12/flaherty-deficit.html

The following link will take you to a short video (2 minutes and 50 seconds long) of a speech Congressman Ron Paul (Texas) gave in the United States Congress (on Dec. 10, 2008) during the debate on a motion to grant a bailout to the U.S automakers

[url]http://www.youtube.com/v/-3QC1sfQ9RQ&hl=en&fs=1">

The second link in my post is not correct. The following is the link to Congressman Ron Paul's speech.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/v/-3QC1sfQ9RQ&hl=en&fs=1">

Bridge:"I think that answers your question diplomat."

Thanks, although I did not ask a question.

The rest is just conjecture. The highway needed to be upgraded and made safe regardless whether or not the Olympic bid was going to be successful. Of course, without promising to upgrade it Vancouver probably would not have received a nod from the IOC.

It's called killing two birds with one stone - we get the Olympics AND a better highway!

Not too shabby, in my opinion! (BTW, I was not in favour of bidding for the Winter Olympics).

My link doesn't send properly when using the usual procedure.

The following link will take you (I hope) to a web site where the video shows up prominently on the home page.

http://ourpolitics.wordpress.com/2008/12/12/ron-paul-what-creates-these-economic-bubbles/

Rio Tinto borrowed $40 billion to buy Alcan. Next year a repayment of $8.5 billion of that loan comes due and another repayment of $10 billion the following year. If everything goes well then RT will not have any need to sell any assets, but the talk right now is that because of the downturn in the world economy and lower commodity prices RT is putting some projects that are underway on hold and that it is considering to sell some prime assets to meet its debt obligations.

If Kemano comes up for sale there would be an opportunity to buy Kemano and put it under the control of B.C. Hydro, i.e. British Columbians.

To build a higher capacity power line from Kitimat to Terrace is also not a big deal.

the city said they would be somewhere at 3:30, i waited till 4, they did not show up! Now, the hydrant still leaks, and needs repairs, and the city is too lazy to do THIER JOB!! We pay thier checks, and they are too dang lazy to do what they say, and what they are supposed to! I say we go down and FIRE ALL city workers who say something, but wont do it....oh wait, thats 99% of them...well the unemployment rate should raise!

I know this isn't as important or as interesting as the rest of the stories on here, but I was wondering if anyone else has noticed the balloons? Every day, at around 3 pm, someone in the city is releasing a balloon over the city. We can see it when were let out of school and its always there, rising from the same place. Does anyone know the reason for this?

I think those balloons are released from weather stations by Environment Canada.

Is it just me or do other people see our local D.O.T. as Nazi's????