If the government is contemplating a bailout of the auto industry then we should demand an extension to EI benefits. Why should we put up with Union auto workers making $70 dollars an hour in wages and benefits getting a government hand out while we are left to the wolves?

I agree Ruez!
And the provincial government also needs to step up as well,not just the federal government and EI!
They have BOTH been sitting on their hands while people are hurting!
Ottawa is a mess and the provincial government only cares about the lower mainland and the Olympics!
Money for everything else and there should damn well be money for forestry workers.
Time to push hard and spread the heat around!

We ponder wether or not to give GM 6 billion dollars in hopes of keeping their doors open.

The cost of keeping 10,000 unemployed on EI for a year is going to be under one billion dollars in Northern BC.

Sure the system has to have limitation, sure these guys have worked hard and long for many years and have the rights to ask for help. We put them on for a year on the system, but the system is not designed to carry them for more than year.

Suggestion, if you have twenty plus years into the EI system, than your entitled for a one time, one year extension.

If your over ten years but under 20 years into the EI system, your entitled to a one time 6 months extension.

If your over 30 years into the into the system, You become entitled to one 18 months extension.

if your under 10 years into EI system than, sorry, no extension.

The system has to be self sufficient. Not been subsidized.

This theft of the close to $50 billion in combined employee/employers contributions is one of the greatest rip-offs in Canadian history!

Imagine if all that money had not been stolen but invested every year to produce compound interest!!! It would probably be way over $100 Billion by now!

The downturn in the forestry industry is an extraordinary event and as such should cause special clauses to kick in to extend benefits as long as required.

We are pumping billions of dollars into the Afghan war effort and we can't look after our own workers who have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own? How ironic and surreal is that?

These people should go and stage a rally in front of the Ottawa Parliament Buildings and refuse to leave!

Ooops, forget that idea - Harper has just shut Parliament down for a couple of month in order to stay alive!

There would be NOBODY there to hear their valid grievances - how lucky for the politicians to be UNAVAILABLE at this time of crisis!

Fire them all and start from scratch!

I find it interesting that the signs say "Our Future Depends on Action Today". To be perfectly honest, I think the future of the people holding the signs depends more on what they do as opposed to what the government does.

In any event, I like the suggestion from He speaks. Put something in place that would apply to EVERYONE who may require EI at some point in their lives. Don't make special rules for certain people and don't grant extensions to people just because they are in a particular industry. Have a system that treats everyone the same, which is basically what we have now under EI. Of course, that doesn't mean that the system itself couldn't be changed. If things can be modified to be more responsive to the people who need EI, without putting the entire program in jeopardy, then let's look at those options.

We need that money to survive as most on a 3 or 4 day week. Our wages have been cut by $9.00 per hour and a 4 day week. Most need that extra $400.00 a month to put meals on the table. I agree we all have to work but our jobs were taken away and we have to scounge on lesser wages. We paid we earned and that money is ours and yours to have when needed. Like someone said this morning the government has no problem giving welfare to a family where one works and the other claims, now that is fraud we are not commiting that. Those people can afford fur coats and catilacs, we drive a little car no frills. Now who is taking advantage of the system?

Why did these people wait till there EI ran out. I assume most of them got laid off last christmas?? I understand that forestry is taking huge hits, along with many other sectors out there. I think there is going to be huge layoffs in the next couple months, and the unemployement rate is going to spike even more. With all these people laid off, quality of life is going to go down for all. The next couple of years is going to be very depressing...

didn't EI loose a couple of billion dollars a while back, before this latest Robbery of our money?? The first one, if I remember correctly, just vanished, 2 billion dollars plus, gone, without a trace!! People (TAX PAYER'S) soon forgot, and the thieves went on their merry way!!

Well, you know what, if you don't want to stand up to these thugs, shut up!! Very few people in this country have the b---s to all join together, and say, "WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH" Until we can do that, shut up!!

I'll tell you what, if you and I ever stole a fraction of the money, that the governments have stolen from us, we would be looking out of a window with bars on it!! And I may add, for a very long time!!

Wake up Canada, wake up now!! Elections are not the answer any more, civil disobedience is!! The sugar coating has to stop. These people running our country are thieves, plain and simple!!

Unbelievable the Feds would contemplate bailing out Chrysler, a private company. Their parent company Cerberus,has stated they will not spend one more cent subsidizing Chrysler.
The US senate certainy has got this one right in not bailing out Chrysler and GM. How many more companies will line up in bail out nation.
Since when should our tax dollars be used for private or public traded company welfare. I am sure the people of McKenzie or Ft St James would have loved to have publicly traded firms in their communities given a helping hand.
The forestry workers in Canada can not make any headway in getting EI benefits extended. Maybe they should join the UAW.
The auto bailout certainly confirms the fact elections are over at the Ontario/Manitoba border.
We keep hearing the same old propaganda from Hill and Harris about the how they are working for the residents of their respective ridings. Maybe come the next election it is time to consider a changing our Federal gov't representatives.

Hmm ...
Picketing to get more money for doing what???

Very impressive letters. This whole thing started in the U.S. It has bankrupted many country's. Iceland for one is broke.
If there is no bailout, ( it has to be conditional), we will slip into depression. The whole world economy. Read Peter Ewert on Opinion 250. UNBC economist.
Also look up Peter Schiff. He's an economist with Euro Pacific Capital in the u.S. He predicted this mess years ago and earned the nickname of "Dr. Doom".
Today the Senate turned down the proposal because the CAW will not accept a wage cut. When was the last time you earned $78 per hour?
I think Harper is handling this whole thing correctly. We can't throw money at the Canadian car industry unless the US is on board with conditions. Bush may bail them out without conditions and then the whole world is in trouble. $78 per hour on an assembly line? Get a grip. The CAW union may be the one that breaks the back of the world economy. The mortgage melt down crippled it.
Then anyone in North America that belongs to a union is toast.
Depression is a reality.

faithfulreader, right on!! Lets get er done. Put everybody down, and back to reality. The fat cats can loose everything as far as I am concerned!! They have caused the problem with their greed. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out!! The middle income people, have run out of money to support the fat cats of this world!! We can't afford to buy the new vehicles, unless it is on credit!! most peoples credit cards are maxed out, which the credit card company's use to like!! Not any more, it has come down to the fact, that the world can't live on credit. For every dollar lent, there has to be a dollar in the bank! The money lent out, has gone beyond the money that is real. In other words, if you have $2,000.00 in your bank account, and you owe $5,000.00 on your credit cards, guess what, you are in a financial crisis!

And, this is what has happened with the auto industry. They have finance beyond what they have in the bank, and it has come back to bite them. When anyone can go into a new car dealership, and get financing for a brand new car, when even there mother won't lend them $5.00, there is going to be fall out, and here is the fall out!! The money lent out, has to be less than the money you have in the bank. Simple math!! Unless you are the Government of course, then you have an unlimited supply of cash............NOT!!

I say, don't bail any company out with my tax dollars, they brought it on themselves, with their greed, and no concern about anybody but them selves!

still would like to know where the 78 dollar number comes from. Am sure that the worker on the assembly line dosn't make near that amount. Suspect that that number would be closer to $25 than $78 per hour. Still have to agree that to bail out the auto industry in this country would be a huge mistake. The problem has to fixed in the auot plants south of the border before they can be fixed in Canada. And why are you all crying about EI benfits being extended. Where were you when injuried workers were being shafted out of 10% of there money. You were all saying OH IT"S NOT HAPPENING TO ME so why bother. Shoes on the other foot now so to be honest do you really deserve any sympthay. But to be honest we are all getting shafted.

I believe they are saying that autoworkers make 78 bucks an hour after all the benefits are brought into the equation. They certainly don't see 78 bucks an hour on their paycheques.

even with benefits they do not come close to $70 to $78 an hour. That number is a smoke and mirrors thing and if true would explain why the auto industry is in trouble

The auto industry is totally reliant on people continuing to buy new cars. A new car is not a reality anymore for many families. The competition to the big three has produced a better vehicle at a better price. So, that is where they find themselves. Throwing more money into a company that hasn't adjusted to a competitive marketplace will end up with the same results when the money runs out.

I do agree with extending EI during these times. Why not? What are we saving the money for anyway? We overpaid for years, now it's time to hand some of it back. There is no better time in my opinion.

Wages and benefits are only about 10% of the total expenditures of the Big Three, according to their testimony at the senate hearings.

They were still paying their CEOs huge salaries and giving them share options and bonuses while the companies were losing billions annually.

Now they want to be bailed out by the taxpayers.

It'll take a miracle to keep these three dinosaurs going.

I'd support an extension if these folks were actively trying to find other work or get training. But it seems like most of them want to sit at home and wait until 'something' happens and they can go back to their old jobs.

The reason they find it difficult to extend EI they have already stolen the money out of the fund from those who have contributed and are using it to shore up the auto corporations.

The 78 bucks in hiourly wages they are giving us is certainly smoke and mirrors. CBC last night on the news compared wages between the big three and Toyota. The average wage at Toyota is $26.00 per hour and the big three pay $28.00 per hour.

Another solution to help bail out the big three came from south of the border. It was suggested that to keep the big three aflaot would be for the employees to buy shares in the corporations. Hows that for a made in the good old USA for a solution.

Cheers

The numbers that have been quoted on this site regarding union wages are quoted directly from the bureau cheif at CTV News...I think they are a pretty credible source for news, wouldnt you say?

Meanwhile the unions are saying they arent part of the problem...given these numbers what is the production cost on equivilant gm vs. toyota?

Dont see toyota and honda with their hands out!!!

It's my understanding that the $70 to $78 per hour figures are for the US workers and it is indeed the "overall" labour cost, NOT what the people are actually paid. As such, it would include the cost of benefits and medical coverage, which in the US is insane. One guy I went to school with moved down there and his monthly insurance premiums were around $1,200 per month and that was 7-8 years ago. Luckily, his employer covered a big chunk of the cost. Many times they won't. So much for the income tax savings in the US, LOL.

Anyway, back to the autoworkers. It's pretty obvious that the business models of the big 3 need SERIOUS reworking. All you have to do is look at their financial statements for proof. And it really doesn't matter what the UAW/CAW think or how much labour cost ends up in the each unit of production. A grunt job at an assembly line is not worth $60K-$70K per year in today's day and age. Maybe in the 1970's, but not now when 4 years of university doesn't even guarantee you those types of wages.

The unions need a wake up call, the CEO's making huge dough in a money losing company need a wake up call and the folks managing the big 3 need a wake up call. They are getting their butts handed to them by the competition, who incidentally are doing very well under the free market system that our economies are based on. In my opinion, if the government does give handouts directly to the auto industry (which I have serious concerns with), they should give it to Honda, Toyota, VW or other players who have shown that they can actually adapt and produce vehicles that the world wants. If the North American industry won't adapt, let it die. Other auto makers will fill the void left behind and THOSE are the ones we should be trying to attract.

Quite simply, this whole mess is a classic case of clinging to the past, not accepting the realities of what is happening to the industry and not adapting for the future. We should be all too aware of those factors given that they are happening in our backyard as well . . .

With all due respect to Mr Ewart the economist does he recall Skeena Cellulose. The NDP gave them $10 million in 1997 and in the end the jobs where gone and the BC taxpayers where out $500 million. Mr Ewarts generation has been morgaging the future for long time now. The so called greatest generation has grown wealthy by running deficits in even the good years and pushing the costs to the next generation. My generation is trying to straigten it out. We are trying not to pass debt to our kids. Its the right thing to do! Short term pain for longterm gain.

NO BAILOUT FOR ANYONE.

If the local unemployed have tried to find work in Alberta and failed then extend benefits. Otherwise it has to end sometime!

Emplohees buying shares in their big three corporations? Now that is a great idea. Let's see if the employees are as confident in the company and product they work for. I expect production would increase and costs would decrease. And no belly aching.

Consumer Reports Magazine just conducted its fifth consecutive owner satisfaction survey in which owners report which cars they would buy again.

Honda Civic Hybrid 80%, Toyota Prius 93%, Audi TT 83%, Chevrolet Corvette 92%, Mini Cooper 91%, etc. Aside from the Corvette the best of the Big Three: Dodge Durango 48%, none of the other Big Three products scored higher than 48%. Worst score: Jeep Commander 32%.

One can build them, but if they are too low on the satisfaction index people will gradually look elsewhere, bailout or not.

Enough about the $70/ hour crap. Go to this site to see where the number came from.

http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_01_08auto1.cfm

The problem is not the workers in the factories, it lies with the director of those companies and jerks who mis-report the news.

here's a quick study of why the economy went down. Notice there are no unions involved in its causes, just in the suffering.

http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/stiglitz200901

One of the biggest problems with our economy is that it is still too dependant on the American economy. Goverment cannot offer a bailout to the forest industry because that would be seen as a subsidy and violate the softwood agreement. Like the auto industry, American companies own Canadian sawmills and pulp mills yet it is the American lobbyists who prevent any direct aid to our failing forest industry.

Would an extension of EI benefits be seen as a subsidy in the eyes of the American lobbyists?

I believe we should cut all ties with the American economy as soon as fiscally possible. NAFTA should be scrapped and we should sell our products based on our own economic policies not one dictated to us from a foreign power. Canada has in abundance what the world wants. However instead of selling raw material to others so they can sell finished products to us we should be making and selling the finished goods ourselves. The problem will be convincing regular Canadians (and I am one of them) to work for lower wages in order to remain competitive on the world market. Prices need to come back in line with the new financial reality that will exist once we emerge from this economic crisis. Less credit, more savings, better judgement are all qualities we must strive towards as a people.

How many people currently unemployed would be much better off if they didn't try and buy every new fangled gadget that came on to the market. Instead of financing a new TV or computer, actually save up the cash for one. Keeping away from the 40-60 thousand dollar luxury trucks and cars and instead purchasing ones that are much cheaper but do the same job.

Credit is what screwed the economy. Making more of it won't fix it.