Too Much of a Good Thing

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 03:45 AM

There has been a lot of play in recent days over the fact the City has a developer who is prepared (subject to financing) to build three buildings along Quebec St. in the city.

The idea cannot help but work to improve the down town core but a closer examination is in order.

The latest structure calls for 15 to 20 small retail shops covering about 30,000 sq ft., and on the second floor there would be 65 suites, basically for students at the new research center down town.

Then there would be a further 16 "high end" apartments at the coroner of 5th and Quebec with 5 retail spaces.

Now if you haven’t made a trip into the down town core recently that should be in order. You will see there is a lot of vacant space. Majestic Management's major down town revitalization which turned retail space into two call centers, gave the area a boost but it simply can’t stand alone.

We are heavily over retailed in the city.

Wal Mart, Home Depot and an enlarged Canadian Tire had to take business from the city in order to survive and they did. At one time the argument was being made that we were going to suck business out of places such as Kitimat and Terrace but then Wal Mart, trying to cut off the flow to competition in PG, opened up in Terrace.

To the north, trade and commerce moves to Grande Prairie where its 7% less and the drive is hours shorter.

Our population has grown say from 72,000 to a high of 77,000 and yet we are being compared to cities such as Kelowna which has 105,000 in the city and a further 200,000 in the surrounding 100 mile area. Kamloops can boast 83,000, we can’t . So while our City's population dropped, new business opened up essentially along the "new" down town of Highway 16 west.

That new business had to draw from somewhere and if you study history, you will find in any other center where Wal Mart has set up shop, business is drawn from the down town.

Businesses don’t just close one street one nice day, it takes weeks, months even years for them to disappear, and if you look, you’ll see just what has happened.

Trying to now put 36,000 square feet of new retail space into an area with only an increase of population of about 200 is a stretch at best.

The down town is along way off from coming out of this depressed state .

I’m Meisner and that is one man’s opinion.

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Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 03:45 AM in Views by 250 News

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Comments

Posted by: owl on November 16 2005 9:36 AM

Bang on.

Don't forget, this is new space and is not going to be going cheap. Compared to something like Parkwood when it was rebuilt, the small retailers were paying in the order of $25/sf triple net with some money paid on signing to help with tenant improvements. That has since gone down for some as the five yesar leases came up for renewal, and others have moved out.

Look at the amount of empty space still left, especially where parking is "iffy" in front of the theatres.

Camp Plaza is in the $15+ range. By the time you hit the CBD, it goes down to $6 to $10 as I understand, with a few larger tenants as low as $2/sf. That's lower than the Bay likely pays at Parkwood.

I simply cannot see the the economics of such a development at this time. They must be philanthropists or gamblers. I am relatively sure no bank around here would provide them with loans.

Posted by: rock on November 16 2005 10:14 AM

In order for small business to compete with the box retailers they have to do just that...COMPETE,that means that when I come in your store I am the guy paying you,you are not the guy providing me with a place to shop. Look at a places like JJ springer,J&A stereo for example,you can go in their business and they say hello with a smile,I have had occasion when I have went into JJ springer and the clerks know my kids by their first names,they are freindly almost like they actually want you there,sure they are more expensive but the service is what sets them apart from the big box stores.I urge you to go into Home depot and try to buy some paint,just try that little experience, wow what a joke,but hey you saved $1.49.If you want downtown to prosper all you have to do is move the soup kitchens and pawn shops down by Allens scrap and salvage and then build a hockey rink(with private money)and a performing arts center(the Judy Russel crowd)downtown along with this new Metropolis development.
But hey guess what,It won't happen because it would be hard work and it's just to easy for all of us to *** about how nothing is going on downtown.The downtown merchants need to stop whining and start giving us great service with a smile whether they like it or not.
Rock

Posted by: Palopu on November 16 2005 1:04 PM

Wal Mart is presenlty trying to locate a store in Smithers, which will also keep some people from coming to Pr George to shop if it goes through. In addition we have Wal Mart in Quesnel and a new Canadian Tire, and Save On Foods in Quesnel, so this should keep, a large number of people from Williams Lake and Quesnel from coming to Prince George. In addition we will probably get a new Safeway and a Rona along highway 16, plus who knows what else. Dont forget the Big expansion for housing that will supposedly will take place when the Golf course moves.

On any given day you can walk through parkwood and count 10-12 empty stores. You can walk through the Pine Centre and count another 10-12. These stores have been empty for sometime.

I have no idea where the people and money is going to come from to support all the present stores and the projected future stores. We have a declining population, declining enrollments in out University, College, and School District 57. Hundreds of empty apartments and houses for rent, and hundreds of houses for sale.
Time to wake up and smell the roses.

Posted by: Foo738 on November 16 2005 5:52 PM

I get great service downtown. I just phone Ted Moffat and say "send me up a washer/drier". No questions, it arrives they hook it up take away the old ones and Jack's your Uncle. I never go to WalMart. I like downtown.

Posted by: spanky on November 16 2005 6:52 PM

I hear ya Meisner, where are the dollars going to come form to pay the rent? It is impossible to keep going down this road until the population of the city starts to grow. There needs to be some serious new industry gained before we can expand the retail space significantly.

later.........

Posted by: Chadermando on November 16 2005 8:11 PM

The way I see things is we have speed bumps and everything isn't linear, but is influenced a great deal by perception.

Prince George gives an outward impression of defeatism, and negativity. PG does not give the impression of the winner that we have potential to become.

I look at the opportunity of a few new pallet plants, and OSB board plants in the area creating a couple of thousand new high payng jobs directly and maybe 10,000 more jobs indirectly.

If we had a local campaign to plant hard woods we could also talk about value added industries too.

Soon oil and gas pipeline construction will add further diversification to the economy.

This gets the ball moving and gives us further reason to expand our transportation and distribution infrastructure adding another couple of thousand direct jobs thourgh an inland container and airtransportation port. The port in effect puts us on the distribution highway and creates further oportunityies for growth.

Am I leaving out something... yes I am and that is tourism. We are not even an infant in the development of tourism in this region. We have some of the best eco-tourism oportuinities in the world completely untaped. In China they have over a 100 million people in the middle class income bracket that are now allowed to travel and dream of going to a place of nature such as we have to offer in Central BC. Good guides in the industry make in excess of $400 a day and $85,000 a year providing further good jobs (native and non native)for growth while building on the character and positive perceptions of this region.

The opportunities are endless, but the direction to them is rudderless. Hopefully the new council will seize these opportunities and mould them for positive change at minimum to the perceptions of Prince George.

Time Will Tell

Posted by: Chadermando on November 16 2005 8:19 PM

I forgot about the downtown. It won't happen until the community economic base grows. The economic base will not grow if it is held hostage by downtown considerations.

The downtown needs to compete for consumer interests and not rely on tax payer handouts.

I notice we have a deficiency in stores that cater to mens wear. This is a mans town with no mens wear stores? Seems kind of odd. Also I notice we no longer have stores that sell custom leather jackets among other areas of retail need that have opportunities for growth.