I didn't like this last trip around....
not sure they are going to sway me this time either..
I want my vote to go where I want it to go not to where some political party or political zealot thinks it should go.

Says above the province is commiting funding...so I therefore beleive it it to their benefit to get this accepted....though I doubt they would ever admit it....

Another Campbellism?

Say No to STV.

It was born over concerns about the damagae the NDP did to BC, but on the flip side BC could also never have recovered if we had to drag along those very same people. Sad but true.

Our current crop of BC Liberals are wearing out as they get ground down by the constant pressure, but STV would not help the matter either. BC is ran by the civil service, our politicians are the vanguard. Some character stripes do a better job than others, the problem is it is a thankless job. To do it right is a constant battle. Being an MLA can be a real easy job if you want to be loved by your Ministeries. No regulations were cut under the watch of the NDP.

Didn't like it then, don't like it now.

It was born over concerns about the damagae the NDP did to BC,

What have you been smoking Yama. Have a look at the damage that Gordo has done to BC. This guy is a disgrace to the Liberal party he is as far right as he can go. But then I guess the people of Prince George like his style when you look at how they vote in the Federal elections.

Here is a short list of some of the great thngs that Gordo has given us.

1. sold off BC Rail

2 Canabalized BC Hydro to the point that it no longer is a crown corporation.

3. Run of the river power projects that are destroying our streams and will put our electrtic power rate on par with big oil.

4.Gave away the newly built ferries and had others built off shore that are also having problems.

5. A billion dollar highway that goes no where.

6.Billions of tax dollars to provide transportation for those that live in lotus land

7. Many more projects that feed his friends that we are never told about.

I am not a big fan of the NDP but it is an alternative and it has real people that try to work for all of us not just big business.

To my knowledge the NDP has never pushed for STV it has always been the the Greesns who are hoping that it will bear fruit for them. And I have to agree with BCracer that if this voting system goes in I wont even bother to vote.

Cheers

In Ireland, where they use a single transferable vote, they elect a lot of independents who can actually stand up for their local area.

Right now we have an electoral system where a party that gets 40% of the votes gets 60% of the seats.

This means that a party can win most of its seats in a few regions of the province and can ignore other areas.

The Citizens' Assembly rejected changes that would give more power to political parties, and instead would allow voters to elect MLAs who would be more concerned with their own seat in Prince George, than in towing the party line to elect swing seats in Vancouver.

I disagree with yama. Yama talks nonesense if he thinks BCSTV is a liberal ploy to get elected. They want nothing to do with this as much as the ndp want nothing to do with it. BCSTV, or opposition to it, is the only thing that unites the two mainstream political parties in BC... because both the ndp and liberals are both controlled by party insiders with views that are extremist to the mainstream BC Voters consensus opinion. The ndp and liberals need the current system to control power. and that isn't good for anyone.

The Single Transferable Vote system was first used in BC back in the 1950's that saw the emergence of the BC Socred party. At the time the liberals and conservatives implemented the system because they thought the socialists would come to power otherwise... and figured conservatives and liberals would all pick the other as their natural second choice (thus giving them a majority over the socialists by giving each other their support on the second ballot count)... no one foresaw that the Socred would be the consensus choice for everyone from all three established parties, and thus win the election.

BC was better off because of electing the BC Socred party of WAC Bennett. Almost no one can argue against that. The STV system was what first saw them elected. The Irish are the only others that use the system in the world and I would argue they have gone from the worst economy in Europe to the most robust and independent economic growth in all of Europe. The STV system changed Ireland from a colonial dependent to a free and independent country that stands as a standard against the EU bureaucratic world order in favor of sovereign nations in a global economy.

I think a consensus vote that requires a 50% majority approval for any candidate to get elected (BCSTV) is much better than a first past the post with people getting elected with as little as 30% of the vote.

In a democracy anyone should require 50% support at minimum to get elected, and we should accept nothing less. We should support BCSTV.

I think the multimember ballots allow for greater freedom from party selected candidates for the voter to have choice in the person... rather than only a choice between party insider selected as a take it or leave it single member first past the post choice. The BCSTV system frees the BC voter from the control of party insiders in a party centric election campaigns.

The BCSTV system gives a fair and equal opportunity for independents that do not feel comfortable running for either the ndp or the liberals. An independent can have opportunity either as a result of being everyones consensus second choice making it to the second ballot with enough first choices... or as a result of the voter having an opportunity to select as many as six potential members of parliament, rather than only one.

Therefore with an equal opportunity for independents we get more freedom for all MLA's to represent the voter, rather than party insiders and campaign contributors being the primary factor in political decision making in our parliament.

There is nothing complicated about the results this system encourages. It gives the voter a choice, it allows for a consensus majority vote we don't currently have, it takes the power over candidates from the party insiders and gives it back to the voter.

Party selected candidate have no more guarantees of being elected under BCSTV (ie John Rustad, and Dick Harris type candidates)... because they now would have to run up against those from within their party, as well as require a majority approval of the voters before they could ever get elected.

The extremism of the political system would be naturally governed to the center with the requirement to met a 50% majority consensus and the competition within each party for the available seats on the ballot in the hands of the voter.

The BCSTV system is the mortal enemy of political party insiders and their corporate and union lobbyists. They will stop at nothing to stop BCSTV... because they have everything to lose.

BCSTV was conceived and recommended by an independently selected random jury of BC eligible voting citizens (with on BC interests in mind) where 2 random voters from the voter list from each riding sat on a jury and weighed all the options. BCSTV was chosen by the citizen assembly setting a historical precedence for the first time citizens themselves in a jury selected the form of elections we in BC would like to elect our legislature. This is not a system designed by politicians with partisan political interests and it is a superior system to what we currently have as a result. BC would be on the leading edge of democratic evolution if in fact we did get the 60% for approval rather than the 59% it got last time around. The road map to BCSTV is more legitimate than the current systems foundation, or any other that has been proposed.

The legitimacy that BCSTV has from the citizens assembly process and the referendum on its implementation would give our democracy a strong and lasting moral legitimacy for all future generations... and that can not be underestimated I don't think in this debate.

I support the BCSTV because I would like to one day live in a democracy and those are my reasons why I think BCSTV supports democracy.

Bridge all the parties oppose BCSTV. The liberals, greens, and ndp all oppose BCSTV, because BCSTV doesn't allow their party insiders to have control over the candidates that will likely get elected as a result of a party controlled system.

BCSTV came about because the BC Citizen Assembly found it as the best system in BC's interest regardless of political party interests.

The Citizens Assembly came about because after the BC Reform party was banned from the election for a Vander Zalm over spending on his local campaign at a time (when the BC reform had 26% support). Reform BC at the time held the balance of power that saw the ndp getting elected. The ndp offer nothing to the old reform voters when their party was banned for campaign finance violations... and the liberals offered up the citizen assembly... so the liberals got the 26% prize and won a complete landslide control of parliament, and thus the obligation to go forward with the Citizen Assembly process. The Citizen Assembly promise won the election for the BC liberals that brought them to power.

Gordon Campbel opposes the results, but drags out the process to try and get political mileage out of it.

Eagle, I wouldn't want to be in line behind you at Starbucks. I'd hate to see how you order a coffee.

I would suggest that cheap labour, and a booming economy had more to do with turning Ireland around than the STV.

STV sucks. It gives power and prestige to those who dont deserve it, and over time can grind Government to a halt as they haggle over who should do what.

First past the post works fine, lets not get side tracked by this BS.

Citizens Assembly Alumni must think we are indecisive or something....surely I know who I want to vote for...I don't need to rate them all from 1 to ?? as would pick them....
then someone out of my contro decides which vote they are going to use?
I like the one vote for one person...if they make it fine...if they don't, they don't.
I have done some web searches and what they try to explain leaves a lot of unanswered questions and make me wonder just how above board and honest it is....
think I like it better the way it is....

Personally none of these system work until the politicians themselves become more responsible and actually live up to what they claim they are going to do. Instead they all promise the world and then once elected sit around in office doing little for the common good of the province. Then lets of promises as the next election looms.

"4.Gave away the newly built ferries and had others built off shore that are also having problems."

They were sold because they were completely unfit for the purpose they were built for. The new ferries are still under warranty, something that the Fast Ferries didn't come with!!!

"5. A billion dollar highway that goes no where."

I looked on the map - lo and behold! - it replaces the narrow and dangerous accident prone highway to Whistler, B.C. with a proper one that will be used for many decades to come by the people of B.C. and millions of tourists, you know the ones that contribute millions of bucks to the B.C. tourism industry, i.e. jobs, jobs, jobs.


Bridge, it is posts like your seven point one that remind me to go out on voting day and cast my vote to keep the NDP from totally wrecking our province once more.

Anything but...and I agree with Palopu's opinion on STV.

The Liberal party itself COULD survive over the long term,because the issue is not about the party itself per say.
There are in fact some very good people within the B.C.Liberal party, but we never hear about them.
Nor are they ever allowed to have a say in anything,even when it comes to representing their own ridings and those who elected them.
The real issue is Gordon Campbell.
He has to go,and he needs to take his elite band of merry men that do his dirty work, with him!
I have seen some real winners over the years in B.C.politics, but this guy is without a doubt the worst.
He is just plain dangerous.
What he has done to B.C. is criminal and hopefully,someday he will have to answer for that.
And the sooner the better, while there is still something left of this province to salvage.
If the Liberals are ever to have a hope of surviving,they need to dump him.
He would sell out his own party to benefit himself if need be, and he doesn't give a tinkers damn about the people of this province.
We are nothing more than a pain in the ass.
He cares about power and money and what can be gained for life AFTER politics!
And for that,he is taking very good care of himself and his chosen few at our expense.

It'll be a sorry day for BC if we ever adopt STV. It might've had the benefit of alowing Social Credit to first win office in 1952 because of a fluke that the two old line Parties never expected.

But WAC Bennett was wise enough to get rid of it after he'd obtained a solid majority in the next election. It was also put in, and later taken out, in Alberta.

It is a horrible perversion of the democratic process, and I hope the good people of BC vote "No" when asked again to approve it. Why do we even tolerate having our money wasted on a second referendum when it was already turned down once? Haven't we got more pressing needs our taxes could be spent on?

It wasn't turned down Socreed. It got a sold 59% majority. That is a huge majority by any standards... only the premier says 60% is the new majority. For anything else including electing a current MLA it is only 50% or less.

Also Palopu is completely wrong, because he is talking about a proportional representation system that allows the parties to assign the seats based on popular vote. The BCSTV is the complete opposite of that in that the people are deciding for all the seats... and all the seats will require a consensus majority vote.

One vote one person is always a lesser of two evils campaign controlled by the politics of party insiders and not the interests of the local voter IMO.

I am not much of a fan of BCSTV in general,but I do agree with Eagleone on a consensus majority vote.
Right now,our politcal system favours the party,not the people and it is an electoral system designed by politicians to favour politicians, and to hell with the majority.
Unfair and not exactly democratic.

And by the way,I also agree with lunarguy.
What we have now is a bunch of elite egomaniacs warming the benches and not earning their inflated salaries.
That has to stop.
Some form of accountability is very much needed!
There is no way in hell they should be able to walk in off the street and draw the big bucks without ever having proved themselves to the taxpayers.
Throw in the pensions and the perks and it's a very nice line of work, all things considered!
When Campbell handed them two nice fat raises with our tax dollars of his own accord,it was certianly not because they deserved it!

"When Campbell handed them two nice fat raises with our tax dollars of his own accord,it was certianly not because they deserved it!"

Are you sure?

Don't look to the NDP if you expect lesser pay for MLAs, ministers and deputy ministers and so forth.

The NDP publicly stated position has been for years that in order to attract suitable and capable candidates for political office and ministries they MUST be paid an equivalent to what they would make in the private sector, plus a bonus.

If the NDP *objects* to any pay raises at this time it is only for the convenience of political hay making and grand standing.

Rest assured that as soon as they would be elected they would be just as much in favour of fat pay cheques or even more so.