I agree Ben,this as all the makings of a Hollywood comedy movie,
these men should be totally embarrassed of the drivel coming out of there mouths, I can't believe our BC courts let this farce go on.

Just out of curiosity I would like to ask a question:

At this type of inquiry are the witnesses under oath, swearing on the Bible, the whole nine yards, to tell the truth and nothing but the truth?

The fault lies more with the airport security then the RCMP. The cops were called in to deal with someone they told was dangerous and unruly. They did their job, and unfortunately Dziekanski died as a result.

If the airport security had picked him up hours prior to this incident and seen him on his way, this would never have happened. How does someone wander the airport for hours and hours without someone noticing?

Perhaps we should remove tasers and guns from the RCMP and issue them staplers instead. It is such a dangerous weapon!

There should be a rush to "Staples" this morning to buy these highly offensive weapons called staplers. I wonder if the Feds will now consider staplers restricted weapons. Gangs in Vancouver will turn in their handguns in exchange for staplers.
If 4 cops are afraid of a guy with a stapler maybe they should have chosen another profession.
The right thing to do would have been to say they over reacted and are sorry for their actions.
Thankfully someone recorded the incident. Remember we had one RCMP spin that had to be retracted after the film became public knowledge. Without the film who knows what the RCMP spin would have been. Remember the Ian Bush and St.Armand RCMP killings and the RCMP spin doctors take on those incidents.

That was the problem Arthur. If they would of let him wander the airport the person meeting him would of spotted him and there would of been no problem. Polish has ties to many other languages enough so that several other nationalities would of been able to understand him. I find it hard to belive that someone in that entire airport wouldn't of been able to speak or understand Polish.

Arthur Williams, sometimes it is better to stay silent, and let people think you are without common sense, than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt!!

Resident, I hope this doesn't happen. If it does we will probably have to spend billions on a "stapler registry" and regular law abiding people won't be able to own one. I can see all the offices here locking up their staplers every night.

Did the RCMP determine if the stapler was loaded or not? There are probably 3 or 4 new positions being created at YVR to make sure all staplers are accounted for and in lockdown when not in use, and issued for released only to those trained and qualified in the use of a stapler.
An inquiry is needed into who the individual was at YVR who was so careless in leaving a high powered stapler in the view of a distressed individual.
If you keep a stapler in the desk drawer, is this now considered a concealed weapon?

Just watched the video on the second RCMP officer's testimony on CBC.
Either this guy is deliberately forgetting what took place, or he is dumber than a chicken.
In any event,it doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the RCMP.
By the time this inquest is finished they are going to have a tough time even getting their own mothers to trust them!

we must remember the history (the truth) is written by the victor.
The RCMP one that battle, so they are "writing" the history as they see it.
This even though it is documented on video that they were not being threatened, that he was trying to avoid a confrontation and was assuming a passive posture.
The civilian non-combatant subject was demonstrating stress and was unnecessarily subdued with excessive force with no post incident medical response.

If these were not RCMP or gang members, there would be charges and convictions.
Maybe the government should work on controlling their own gang members first.

Taze them first then ask questions after they die and now we can add "ignore any SOS or help signs you see anywhere" to the list of BS that keeps on happening.

When are these people going to wake up.

Weapon of mass destruction idea.. Tazer/stapler hybrid! Im running to the patent office.

Good question lostfaith,and while anyone can make a mistake,too many mistakes indicate a problem.
A very big problem in this case,and it would seem that is being ignored.
The RCMP has been making a lot of mistakes with what seems to be increasing frequency lately,or perhaps they have always made these mistakes and can no longer hide them.
And it isn't just the RCMP.
Until those who serve the public are in fact held accountable for their screw-ups,this situation will only get worse.
We can't even hold our governments and politicians accountable when they make a mess of something...even when it costs taxpayers millions.
Until that changes things will continue to go wrong and the public will continue to pay the price for it.
Unfortunately sometimes that price will be a life and that is very sad indeed.

They should have already been brought to trial for Murder. If a member of the public did something like that they would already have them behind bars.

Ben said:

"Let's re paint you the picture; four RCMP officers armed with batons, guns, pepper spray and I hope I didn�t forget Tazers, jump over a railing in their rush to get to the Polish immigrant. There are two more security guards standing there, one in a Rambo stance, plus a couple of other airport security people. Count them, eight in all, and these police officers feared for their lives?"

Which option would you have preferred? What do you think the video would have looked like if the four tackled and fought the man and he died? Perhaps you'd be saying they should have tasered him. When did they say they were afraid for their lives? And when did that become a requirement to use force to subdue a person? How about they were afraid of having the stapler thrown at one of their heads or afraid that he would start swinging it around. Can't they respond to a perceived threat before being attacked? Had they let the situation play out another 30 seconds what do you think would have happened? I don't think he would have given up.

At the end of today's hearings, Braidwood ordered the snotty attorney for the Government of Canada to work at producing all material connected to a "Briefing" that all 4 cops attended, after the taser incident. The issue arose when Bentley testified that he had only heard of 2 taser deployments, AFTER the StoneWally gang successfully engineer a creative exhoneration of the 4, through Oppal's Crown Counsel. It is certainly probative to put forward evidence of what Bentley and Rundel learned from said meeting.

What corrupt motive would they have for lying about taser use? Simple. Excessive force engaged after the first two deployments, because the nominal "weapon" (plastic stapler) had fallen during the second 5 second blast, and RD was prostrate during the other 21 seconds where he took conducted energy through his system, inducing metabolic acidosis beyond levels where the human body can function.

Bentley and Rundel KNOW that they were under a legal obligation to investigate Millington and Robinson for culpability in Assault/Negligent Homicide. They know that they can only succeed in defeating an Obstruction of Justice charge, if they remove foundation for said investigation by denying knowledge of excessive force.

It is becoming clear - given the harsh approach taken by the Government of Canada's elite-centrist attorney and the evidence-abridgement of Stan Lowe (now appointed to the cop doormat, Office of the Police Complaint Commission) for AG Oppal, that the Dziekanski Case has been fixed. The outcome - creative exhoneration of culpable cops - was pre-determined, and everything else has been made to fit that exhoneration mold.

The Prokuratur (Prosecutor) of Gliwice, Poland and the Government of Poland need to post an Interpol Warrant against Wally Oppal and Stan Lowe, and at the earliest opportunity. They must be brought to the justice, that they obstructed.

I think a retired R.C.M.P. officer who was around before the issuance of tazers should tell us how they used to handle situations like this. I know they wouldn't have drawn their revolver and shot him with that.

The first cop on the stand at the inquiry just oozed of arrogance. Lately I've wondered if the arrogance that so many of them seem to have now, is part of the pre-requisite for the job, or does it come with the job?

How do these clowns still have their jobs ?
Also heads should roll at YVR.

I'ts pretty bad when another country has to instill the dicipline that our own pathetic laws cannot. Where is Cambell in all this shame. Shame on you R.C.M.P., and these are your spawn to Canadians! I am Canadian and I am Sorry Mrs. Dziekanski for your loss (tears) I hope Poland will find your justice as Canada has failed you.

Well said hammy. It's amazing just when you think you've run dry...here come the tears again.

I think insecure people thrown into these situations come off as arrogant and defensive. There are officers who are good at what they do then there are the ones like these four who always should have sat at a desk. It's just that some people fall short of having the traits necessary to be a good officer. Too bad we couldn't have a reality style training show in Regina and let Canadians vote who they feel is worthy enough to protect us. Toss the insecure ones out before people die. I realize that sounds silly and they are short and can't afford to pick and choose....so now families are short instead.

my2bits a retired officer told me not too long ago how he is so ashamed of the new kids on the block policing. How they have forgotten the term "peace officer". He said, "The public is correct to feel this way, we've let them down." In all his years he not once had to use a weapon, he was always able to defuse the situation by talking.
I find it sad that he would include himself by saying "we've let them down." He was one of the good ones and shall be remembered as such and will never be put in the same group as guys like these four.

Yes Heidi.
Like these four and many more.

Andyfreeze, I also have been watching these hearings.
You mentioned that the Mountie is dumber than a chicken.
In all fairness to all chickens, they should not be compared to someone who is really dumber than a post.
Were in big trouble here, if that guy is a benchmark for the average intelligence of a Mountie in this province.
Just wait until next weeks hearings, the cowboys have saved the best(dumbest) for last.

No doubt about it furtree!
I will prepare myself to be completely amazed!
I am also preparing myself to see them all get up and walk away from this with no strings attached!
And my apologies to the chickens!

All joking aside, I am on record (many times ) as a staunch supporter of the police. However, i watched the video of this incident and i did find it hard to support the use of the taser in this case. I understand that the cops have a hard job and that they are hesitant to mix it up in these times of HIV, Hep A etc. I guess i just figure they ought to have tried a little harder to either calm him down or subdue him without the taser.

Truth has offered us some very good insight to the unfolding scenario at the inquisition. Thank you for that. I'll share a suggestion at this point, speaking from experience somewhat. There is not much probability RD could have dropped the stapler on any of the tazer applications. Unless there was a pause long enough to allow his muscles to operate enough to release, further he would have to have the mental capacity to make that choice. The applied charge causes muscle contraction,a repeated immediate second application would result in the same effect. Two things come to mind here, it seems the training must be askew for the officers to repeatedly tazer him, for they would have been trained to realize this is what probably could happen and it did. So how effective would the tazer be in apprehending a suspect who was more significantly armed? RD did not resist prior to being tazered, nor did he during the charge application, he was reacting accordingly to a painful electrical shock. It is apparent that the training in regards to tazer use is substandard. Moot point I guess.

What perplexes me even more after surfing many sites and meandering through their postings, after all this coverage and the painfully decisive video footage, that people still do not have their facts straight. So have we, as viewers become as complacent as the liars taking the stand. Failing to grasp the details in the situation, jump to conclusions and react unknowingly. Sound familiar?

Although I have my issues with the Canadian National Police Force, particularly the numerous unwarranted deaths of civilians, many and most nations are far more corrupt, again been privileged to that also. But have you ever noticed this? Given the more power and wealth an individual or entity involved has, in any circumstance of crime or corruption, that they are the least likely to be accountable for it. Smells like Hitler, better yet the makers of our current economic crisis.

One thing I wholeheartedly agree with, that the Polish Government take this matter to highest degree. We cannot stand as a proud country with our Government white washing this away.

They should make a movie about BC government and call it "CYA, Cover Your Ass". All these cover ups in BC are fully coordinated among prime minister Campbel office and his ministers and Canadian authorities responsible for the discriminations. It is the failure of BC voters keeping them in office for so long that it has started rotting and smelling bad, so bad that we should rely on justice system of another country to solve our problems.

I have seen some fools coming on this board and openly justifying some of the ongoing discriminations - e.g. in PG - reported publicy here. Trying to break the mirror reflecting the picture of an ugly
reality never erases the ugly reality
of discrimination in BC and CYA.

pisspulper:

Good point about the motivation for the second charge, since none of the cops made any effort to dislodge the stapler.

The Commission doesn't sit on Fridays, but Monday will be critical. If Millington claims he wasn't positioned to assess alleged dangers presented by RD, then it will become apparent that Robinson is being set up for a fall. All 4 remain subject to RCMP Act discipline. So far 2, maintain that they were unaware of 21 seconds of tazer contact. That is Perjury, but why would they perjure if all 4 are sticking together?

I have attended second phase Commission hearings on about 10 days. Uniformed cops usually attend this type of hearing, to indicate solidarity. This isn't happening here. In fact, only 2 Delta cops attended, which is a good clue as to where Rundel has been transferred.

We are going to be height of our selve'sn 2010.As a True Canadian this will not effect myself. OMG Hammy's Indian! As not a full Indian, You will here from ME! I Don't need statis, I still pay Taxes! Yhank-GOD there is video now. can you imagime how corrupt it was. I hope and pray Mrs. Dziekanski gets her justice though her own Government as ours has failed her! Pathetic B.C. foriging on a 2 week party while the R>C>MP do what ever! EY!You sick'shos,Big Business feesheup I'm fed up of payingYOUR TAX!

Good post pisspulper!
And I also believe that a considerable amount of control over this inquest is coming from both the federal and the provincial governments,with strong emphasis on the office of the Premier and the Attorney General.
They all have a lot to lose,but then so do we as citizens!

http://www.straight.com/article-203902/allan-chad-rcmp-training-led-robert-dziekanskis-death


"Allan Chad is the director of Survival International and a use-of-force expert who has trained army special forces and police SWAT teams around the world."

heidi1555:

Do you have an open claim (not necessarily a suit) against the police service who cost your ex-boyfriend's life? Even though your relationship changed, a loss of affection claim is valid, although weaker. There is no way that the federal government will put the Dziekanski case before a jury; they settled Arar, and are pretty good about throwing money at problems.

Within the Criminal Code there is a provision denying the defence of ignorance of the law. Misapprehension of training might be a mitigating factor in sentencing but it is not a culpability issue.

Every RCMP member is exposed to Justice Institute material on new case law that effects policing. Also, brass directives are posted in their unit. Complaint Commissioner Kennedy clarified the allowed invocation of the "resistant" defence for taser use, 18 months BEFORE the Dziekanski murder.
http://www.cpc-cpp.gc.ca/prr/rep/rev/chair-pre/fTaser-inR-20060516-eng.aspx

Robinson knew what he was doing when he ordered the use of the taser. Two cops have testified that they were unaware of 21 seconds of tazer jolts. That is BS, but it means that they are going to hang all culpability on Robinson and Millington. The latter will likely say that he deferred all judgement on taser use to Robinson - the Supervisor - because it was not his job to stabilize the event scene. He was Lead Investigator. I see cop v cop disputes. Robinson is screwed.

You can email me if you wish Truth. I'm not going down the claim road though. I'd rather openly post things for the world to see.

heidi1555@hotmail.com