The forest industry is not yet ready for a comeback by any stretch of the imagaination. Most articles I have seen suggest a start back in late 2010.

It makes me wonder how the proposal by Canfor to claw back 25% of wages and benifits from the Mackenzie sawmill workers with only a vague promise of maybe opening up on a single shift "possibly" employing between 55 & 65 people will pan out. There is no guarantee of how long they would run the shift of even if Canfor board would agree to it.

-Very fast overview - 18% wage cut - gut the holidays - Workers will now contribute an additional $1 an hour into the pension plan - Removal of language for shifting {anyone up for split shifts on weekend G/Y} and other various items.
On the plus (?) side - IF the site makes a profit - a modified profit sharing plan will kick in.

And it runs until 2014 (5 years)

This proposal does not forbode of good things for the forest industy workers in the coming years. What was the main contributor to the economy in BC the past will most likely end up a shadow of it's former self in the next few years.

Salaried Canfor employees have had a pay cut of 7-25% since April last year, with similar benefit/pension cuts, so why shouldn't hourly employees make concessions as well? It's not like the unions are being asked to fall on the sword to keep the mills running.

That is true Swingline. My husband is one of those workers. Not only did he lose 10% of his wage but his profit sharing and bonuses for two years as well. So Yes! I agree that it is the production employees turn to help out!

Why would you give up so much with out any indiction that the mill will start up or if it did start up ,stay running more then a minute . The Steelworkers have allso made some changes to colletive agreements with out gutting their contracts and giving away health insurances and pension benifits or holiday pay and weeks of time off.The steelworkers have given rollbacks based on the price of lumber and when it goes back up those worker will receive their 10% or what ever the union and mill has worked out .I beleive conifex is 10%

"Why would you give up so much with out any indiction that the mill will start up or if it did start up ,stay running more then a minute ."

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Because if you dont then all the mills will shut forever! Is that a good enough reason for you? At the very least take the same 17% minumum (7% wage plus lost bonus) that the salaried employees have taken.

Earth to union employees - there are no guarantees in life. We have taken our rollbacks without any guarantees that we will even have a job in the future. Thats life, such it up.

What bonus program? Union workers don't have a bonus program. When the mill is shut workers don't get paid. Every week off is a 2% pay cut. Four weeks off - 8%! and I am one of the lucky ones.

Union workers have been taking cuts for the past 10 years or so. Infation has been moving faster than pay raises. What were management pay raises over that same time period? Don't compare apples to oranges.

If someone is making 5 million a year takes a 25% pay cut, he is still taking in 4 million a year. It would take a production worker 80 years to make that kind of money.

More payroll deductions for union pension, cuts to medical leave plans, more deductions for medical leave plan, cut to dental, prescription drugs, and other extended medical. The cuts are there. Maybe the union is doing a bad job of not talking about cuts, but then who wants to talk about not keeping up?

I would like people to sit down and look at what is actually going on. Why is Abitibi in trouble? Bad management - there debt to equity ratio is 1 to 1. Are the workers responsible for this? Why did Pope and Talbot close? Again management of finaical issues. Where did this global economic downtrun start? Management of financial issues! Are the workers responsibile for this? Stock holders need to set back up to the plate and start asking questions and saying no to boards and senior management.

Remeber there are two parties at the contract table - union and mangement. If the union contract is too rich then who did a poor job? The union for getting a deal for their members or management for agreeing to it?

Then you can ask, what is managements' skill set that makes them worth so much more valuable than a production worker? Why has management compenasation skyrocketed since 1970 while production workers wages have actually dropped on a purcahsing power level.

Don't get me wrong. Management has a very important role to play and to the most part do it well. But they are not an innocent party and management compensation is becoming an increasing worldwide issue. Maybe companies should publish management salary and bonus plans. Then we can compare apples to apples! Oh the screams over unfair disclosure!! and invasion of privacy!!

I am really tired of people telling me that I am making too much money as I watch my standard of living drop!!!!! To say nothing of my childrens' economic future. I really don't want to see Canada as a third world working poor mess.

Frank on a RANT!

What bonus program? Union workers don't have a bonus program. When the mill is shut workers don't get paid. Every week off is a 2% pay cut. Four weeks off - 8%! and I am one of the lucky ones.

Union workers have been taking cuts for the past 10 years or so. Infation has been moving faster than pay raises. What were management pay raises over that same time period? Don't compare apples to oranges.

If someone is making 5 million a year takes a 25% pay cut, he is still taking in 4 million a year. It would take a production worker 80 years to make that kind of money.

More payroll deductions for union pension, cuts to medical leave plans, more deductions for medical leave plan, cut to dental, prescription drugs, and other extended medical. The cuts are there. Maybe the union is doing a bad job of not talking about cuts, but then who wants to talk about not keeping up?

I would like people to sit down and look at what is actually going on. Why is Abitibi in trouble? Bad management - there debt to equity ratio is 1 to 1. Are the workers responsible for this? Why did Pope and Talbot close? Again management of finaical issues. Where did this global economic downtrun start? Management of financial issues! Are the workers responsibile for this? Stock holders need to set back up to the plate and start asking questions and saying no to boards and senior management.

Remeber there are two parties at the contract table - union and mangement. If the union contract is too rich then who did a poor job? The union for getting a deal for their members or management for agreeing to it?

Then you can ask, what is managements' skill set that makes them worth so much more valuable than a production worker? Why has management compenasation skyrocketed since 1970 while production workers wages have actually dropped on a purcahsing power level.

Don't get me wrong. Management has a very important role to play and to the most part do it well. But they are not an innocent party and management compensation is becoming an increasing worldwide issue. Maybe companies should publish management salary and bonus plans. Then we can compare apples to apples! Oh the screams over unfair disclosure!! and invasion of privacy!!

I am really tired of people telling me that I am making too much money as I watch my standard of living drop!!!!! To say nothing of my childrens' economic future. I really don't want to see Canada as a third world working poor mess.

Frank on a RANT!

While it is true that salaried employees at Canfor mills took a roll-back, the hourly emloyees are on a 30 hour work week and I think that constitutes a fairly good salary cut when you lose 25% of your income!!!

Come on!! Regular millwrights make more money than a Maintenance Superintendent. I call Bullchit there is not one staff person including the Mill Manager who makes millions of dollars. The CEO's might make the sum you are ranting about but regular staff employees who are there every day DONT. My husband works 6 days a week and is on call ALL THE TIME. We have lost a total of 25,000.00 a year with the 10% wage cutback, profit sharing and bonuses. Please do not mistake the CEO's with the daily staff workers. THAT IS COMPARING APPLES WITH ORANGES.

The bleeding continues as well as the floods from all the weeping and wailing. There is one party to blame for all the mess not only the country but the world is in and that is the US government for allowing banks and mortage companies [white collar workers] to lend 100% of mortages loans on homes. Their greed caused this mess, lending to people who they knew could not pay even the interest on their mortages but they collected bonuses for all the mortages they wrote up.

For those who do not remember, The CanFor mill in Mackenzie did take a roll back in wages of 3% to avoid the shutdown and also 4 day work week.

Now the company wants additional 18% wage rollback and pension concessions and list of other things. The company promises to give back 10% if the mills have a production output in access of 3 million fbm per day!! That will never happen as the mills output is close to 2 million fbm.
Talk about putting the workers in a corner while their EI is almost over.

Out of the blame game and back to the story.

I think MacKenzie workers should take the hit for now, just to get the lines moving again.

I would not accept any 5 year plan or other long term deal. A more equitable approach would be a return to regular wages and benefits indexed according to the market value of lumber, on a quarterly basis.

Attached to that plan, should be included a ramping up of operations, again indexed by the market value of lumber, on a quarterly basis.

Let's be fair to everyone, and not take advantage of people who have a gun in their mouth. A sellout plan like stated above would never fly in Prince George.

Secondly, (but off-topic) the mills produce a lot of hog fuel and waste wood.

Why can't we develop a scheme where they could burn this waste on-site to produce electricity to be used for their own needs, and the excess sold into the grid to subsidize their operations ?

We already know that there is ample technology to burn wood cleanly and we already know that it is carbon-neutral.

Frank, I am a non-union salaried employee at Canfor working in the office making $60,000 a year, not millions. I just filed my income tax for 2008 and I'm down $12,000 from 2 years ago because I'm into my second year of a 3% pay cut. Canfor also eliminated our annual performance bonus, our stock purchase plan and we haven't had a pay raise for 3 years now. I am thankful though that I do still have a job because I know lots don't. Please get your facts straight before you start comparing apples and oranges.

Sign of the times, We just have to be grateful that there is a job to go to. But for all those that have a job, start thinking about controlling costs around the house. Start thinking about reducing your operating costs, you just don't know when your job is gone. Its better to do it before and save a bit, before its too late.

thereasonableman: that is called co-generation or cogen.
Many mills started years ago with generating power from production waste.
They are also deep into project aimed at energy efficiencies. No, they will not be able to contribute to the grid. What they are doing is maximizing available resources by reducing, reusing, and recycling internally.

Working for a tire company in 1983 I remember 10% roll back plus loss of a weeks holidays.
I went back to school and moved on....

This is not new

Rant on Frank!!
Hourly employees all knew and ackowledge that concessions were coming and would be made!
To state, "That it's time for production employees turn to help out" is an unfair statement. If you want to measure apples to oranges, Canfor Salaried employees have always had extras that hourly have not. What profit sharing or bonuses? To my recollection the salaried employees never had to spend weeks/months on a picket line fighting for what benefits they have today.

Can anyone tell me what exactly what the benefit/pension cuts to salaried employees are ? Are they as harsh as if your not 55 by July 1,2011 your retiree benefits are cut in half or possibly cut off completely!
Regardsless of how many years you have worked for the compnay.

Just a quick update:

If any of you do not think this is a pattern for the rest of the forest industry in BC you should give your heads a good shake.
Base rate will now be under $19 hr and trades around $26.

The profit sharing model is based on the Mackenzie mill only. It does not apply to corporate profit and loss.
The "profit sharing" does not kick in until the mill shows a profit (as determined by the auditor - Price Waterhouse Coopers) of $600,000. At that point each hourly employee would get a cheque each quarter of $415.
IF the annual profit of the division hits around $3 million per year then we would be close to what we would have made at July 2008 rates.
Regaurdless of how hard everyone is going to work (and I know everyone that will be employed will do everything they can to make the mill profitable) I wuld have to suggest that it will be at least 3 years or more before any kind of profit level where we would see payments would occur.
I may be wrong - but only time will tell.