You want to bring tourism to this ratty old town! Use the money from the performing arts centre and build a massive covered water park and entertainment centre! This town MIGHT get people to come and stay and spend some money around here. Other business's may win from the spin.

Dream on

The $46 million dollar new RCMP building isn't even a LEED Gold designed building and that seems to fly against the rest of the purpose of this report.

All I can tell you is that a bunch of homeless POS's will be living in that greenbelt just like the ones that were at the bypass or along highway 16 at ferry. Was like a little city in there before the developments called for tree cutting.

and they will be defecating in the water features!

yes, downtowns are for business. That greenbelt seems like a nice idea but it will turn into a filthy hobo-magnet.

Did any of you participate in Smart Growth on the Ground or participated in a community clean up project? Easy to judge sitting in front of your computers!
The need for green space is huge when it comes to revitatalization. Proper development would deter some of the problems you're suggesting.

I like the idea of having more green space downtown and making it a more enjoyable place to go, but since we are talking long-term here (2035 per the report), I have an even better idea. Let's plan to have ALL of the industrial and light industrial between 1st Ave and the Nechako relocated and lets re-develop the natural waterfront that we already have.

We could have a simply ridiculous (in a good way) central park that could link up to Fort George even more that it currently does, expanded trail networks, better boat launching facilities, an RV park, better tourist services, residential and retail development and have it all protected by enhanced flood control systems. Heck, we could even create a bit of a canal system for folks that wanted to canoe around the area. If were going to go through these steps, let's think big and do something that will SERIOUSLY change the face and feel of the downtown core for the better.

That area could rival any natural setting development in BC or even Canada if it were planned and done properly. It's a jewel that just needs discovered and polished.

Actually, the only reason the RCMP building is going to cost so much to build is because it is being built to the LEED standard. As a matter of fact, if you watched the city council when they discussed the building and attended any of these SGOG meetings you would know that the planned RCMP building is a perfect fit for this plan.

It has energy efficient features, is architecturally appealing, brings over 200 people into the downtown on a daily basis (there are 260 municipal employees and RCMP staff working there), it adds more green space to the downtown and provides a safe place for people to sit down and take a break. I could go on.

I don't know why I have to explain all of this, maybe some of you should start paying attention to the facts instead of jumping to conclusion. Do your homework.

"It has energy efficient features,"

Vast amounts of glass are typically not energy efficient features not matter how well the glass is manufactured.

"is architecturally appealing"

Depends which architectt you wish to talk to. Certainly not an Arthur Erickson type. This is more along the lines of fadism than architecture.

"brings over 200 people into the downtown on a daily basis"

It already brings in most of those, some of whom then hopefully get into their vehicles to patrol the city they are supposed to protect. Many do not congregate at the Tim's on Victoria. They are more likely to be found in other Timmies around town. One does not have to build an overly expensive building to bring those worker into the centre of the city.

A 2 yr idea still be "worked on" to be reported to Council in Sept and fully implemented over the span of 26 yrs (2035)??
A water feature-did we not tear out the fountain by the pool?Stand Terry Fox there and have him desecrated twice?
Year round public market-they're called Save On and Superstore
Downtown housing- not one project was ever started for "condo" living downtown,signs went up and ground was never broken-unless you count the homeless/FN housing projects.
Green Space- we had plenty of green space,then the pine beetle came and we had brown,red and now stump space
This will be like the decades old "downtown revitalization" mantra
Why are you throwing this $$$ out the window on these non-viable idea's.It isn't a vision of the future-its hallucinating at our expense.

"brings over 200 people into the downtown on a daily basis"

Like gus said, the current building already brings those people downtown and it isn't exactly doing much for downtown revitalization. Then again, neither does the HRDC office on 4th, the bank buildings on Victoria, the Oxford Building, or any of the other offices and work spaces in the downtown.

In order for downtown revitaliztion to suceed, it needs to attract people downtown for things OTHER than their daily occupation. It needs to offer entertainment, shopping, residential space, park land, etc. In short, people need to venture there out of a WANT and not a NEED. Only then will it turn around.

I'm sorry, there seems to be so many fans of Dave Wilbur I did not realize that you were not aware of his wishes to put the RCMP building in the VLA. Great plan, if you own property in the VLA. Sure, just burn the 5 mil already spent and start all over again from scratch.

I can't argue with the pessimists on this site, it's a no win situation. I work downtown and very soon I will be living on the edges of downtown. I don't go to Wall Mart, I don't go to the Mall - I shop downtown.

Prince George does not need any more ugly concrete bunkers. If the current building had been a quality building from the start, it would probably be salvageable, but it was just the cheapest building the council of the day could build. Spend 20 million to build another one and we'll be spending 40 million to replace it in 20 years.

The city cannot expect private investors to invest in our downtown if our own council and residents won't.

It's time to either put up or shut up.

Putting a police building anywhere is not an investment in any more than new space for the users of the space.

Put a police station in Westgate opposite any of the box stores and it won't affect the number of people shopping there. Nor would the number of students at UNBC increase if it were put on Tyner Blvd. or the number of cargo or passengers flights increase if it were placed near the airport.

The courthouse has more traffic from non-courthouse workers than the RCMP station has from non-RCMP workers.

The pool brings more people downtown. The library brings even more people downtown. Has anyone seen a proliferation of restaurants, news and bookstores, coffee shops, etc. around any of these buildings?

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As far as a water feature. It looks very nice on paper.

We have a "water feature" already starting at Hudson Bay slough and ending up on Victoria. Parts of it are very pleasant spaces within an urban enclave. Other parts of it are garbage dumps.

Such artificial "water features" are rarely successful in high density urban settings unless they are part of a private development with quality maintenance to keep it safe, clean, and looking as natural as possible. Better still, they should be part of an existing natural waterbody. While that is part of the 200 year flood plain, natural water levels in that area rarely reach surface height and, when they do, they do so for only a very short period of time.

I like this idea, because for the first time downtown planners are recognizing that the area is part of a natural flood plain and are planning accordingly. I would much rather see a park in that location than further development of low rise buildings with no underground parking potential.

Trying to push development in that flood plain area has been the number one killer of the downtown IMO. Once we can move away from that and push the focus up the elevation a few blocks, then we are starting to get to where we can actually attract private development that needs to meet a risk assessment before private money can proceed. The city has finally recognized that city buildings in the area are a sunk cost and that private investment will not follow, so this is a making the best of past planning IMO.

Recognizing the downtowns natural limitations and improvising with parkland green space and a water park potential to cover for this natural weakness making it a strength is probably the most important downtown planning done in at least 4-decades IMO.

What I like the most is the recognition it gives to an existing high traffic commercial street - Victoria - and its relation to the existing housing to the west by increasing the density along its axis and locating retail on the ground floor. Those spaces will then serve both daytime office users as well as 24 hour residential users.

"The pool brings more people downtown. The library brings even more people downtown. Has anyone seen a proliferation of restaurants, news and bookstores, coffee shops, etc. around any of these buildings?
"

As a matter of fact, yes.

One of the toughest parts about going for lunch after visiting the public library, pool, or civic centre is deciding which place you want to go to and which one won't be too busy to get into. Let's see - off the top of my head there is:

Ladles (Accompanied by many others in the Days inn Food court)
Wendys
Whitespot
Sho-Gun
Coast Inn Coffee Garden
Shooters
Subway
De Dutch
Temptations
Tim Hortons

A little further away but still close enough to walk to:
Cimo
Tandori
Cariboo Steak House
Waddling Duck
Meteora Taverna
Kalo Donair
Ric's Grill

I know there are a lot more, but I have other stuff to do. Something to cater to every taste and budget.

A Bookstores would have a hard time surving so close to the public library. There is a new stand in the Coast and most resteraunts either sell the paper or provide customers with free newspapers.

There are no vacant resteraunts in that area at all.

Okay, let me take one at a time.
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Ladles - that is one of eateries within what used to be Simon Fraser Inn and is now Days Inn. That hotel used to have a high end restaurant rivaling the Inn's. A restaurant where Ladles is now, a relatively successful pub/restaurant plus a relatively successful lounge with imported music groups as entertainment. What is left today is a vestige of what used to be there even 20 years ago. Go talk to the operators and see what the gross sales there were in the 1970/1980s period out of the ground floor of that building versus now.
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The Inn eateries and clubs.
Used to be a wonderful restaurant in there in the 1970s; large, dance floor, take the whole family where mothers could dance with young sons and fathers with young daughters. Those places (such as the Schnitzle Haus) have all disappeared. There was the 770 lounge that was packed on the weekends. Then the large restaurant was divided into the Shogun and Winston's plus the small lounge. The 770 was replaced by Sergent O'Flaherty. Both now gone. Restaurants holding their own. The amount of business from the library and the pool???? 1 person a week???? maybe 2??
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Shooters is the latest version of the Vienna Schnitzel which was the first eatery when they converted the church that was there. It came before the modern library, as did the Inn as did the Simon Fraser. It eventually added the nightclub Vhiskey Mill (since the liquor control board would not allow the name of the alcohol in the title) It has come and gone through at least 5 variations since then. Number of people from the library and the pool? Let's say one a week.
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Temptations??? Which version are you talking about? The longer lasting one on George? or their recent musical chairs into the National and then the Goldcap? Users from the library and pool ... 1 or 2 per week? No restaurant has worked in the Goldcap for decades. I think Temptations is out of there now as well. They are not gettign people from the pool or library in there. That is why that is not a successful location. :-)
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De Dutch. Have not been in there for many years, but expect that for breakfast they are still fairly popular. Patrons from the Library or pool? Let's say 3 or 4 a week. I am going out on a limb with that.
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Now, let me deal with a few of the more serious contenders - White Spot, Tims, Wendys, Subway.
The drive through lineups at Tims every morning, every mid morning, every lunch, and even in mid afternoon on occasion have virtually zilch to do with the library or the pool. I venture to say they have vastly more to do with City Hall, Plaza 400, RBC building, Scotia Building, HSBC, Oxford, and other smaller office buildings and retail/service spaces in the downtown of PG.

No vacant restaurants? Macdonalds folded at Parkwood. So did Humpties. So did the Korean place that used to be where the adult store is now. The Connaught comes and goes. How is Rickies doing? You forgot a whole bunch on the other side of Victoria and 15th.

You also missed the general idea. virtually NO ONE walks from the Pool and the Library to a restaurant. Ladles might actually be the only one that someone who parks at the pool will walk to without getting into the car first and driving to any of the eateries in town on their way to the next errand or back home.

Tell me, why is it that Chapters typically have a Starbucks in their stores or immediately adjacent while a library typically does not have such a relationship with a sit down place for drinks and a few snack options?

http://denvercoffee.blogspot.com/2009/03/coffee-mug-at-denver-public-library.html
[url]
http://www.kxmb.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=87206[/url]
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/snohomishcountynews/2001864174_coffee25n.html

Finally, there is this from this year.

http://blog.al.com/hoover/2009/02/hoover_public_library_opens_ne.html
http://www.al.com/birminghamnews/stories/index.ssf?/base/news/1233047770148140.xml&coll=2
from the article

Hoover library officials this Sunday plan to unveil a $2 million building expansion with a large gathering area, art gallery, newsstand, reading nook and comfortable seating around a raised stage. But patrons may be streaming past the literature to grab a latte instead.

The Plaza is an example of libraries evolving into so-called "third places," or public alternatives to home and work where people can recharge. The term, coined by sociologist Ray Oldenburg in the 1990s, includes bars, hair salons, bookstores, libraries and cafes.

That's happening in libraries even though people predicted the demise of libraries because of the Internet, said Patricia Guarino, the library's associate director and project manager. "This isn't just about reading books and using computers for information," Guarino said. "It's about meeting and talking face to face."

Almost all of the space in the new wing is allocated to social pursuits, from the cafe and adjacent newsstand to a reading room for book discussion groups....

http://www.hooverlibrary.org/cafe

Ever notice how the Vancouver public library is designed?

http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/15c941d3-b3c1-48d9-86c6-367a20cfa03d.jpg

And Vancouver is not even a winter city. Just a rainy city.

BTW, I see nothing about winter cities concepts in the SGOG process.

Can anyone tell me why?

Tons of roof gardens and water parks. None of the roof gardens are under glass for year-round horticulture.

No concepts about getting rid of snow in the downtown in the winter such as can be found in parts of Sapporo, for instance.
http://www.city.sapporo.jp/kensetsu/yuki/english/systems/faci/faci-2.html