He sure is not selling this well.
There must be a private closed door agreement with at least some of the council members.

As long as this is going to cost more, I cannot see any business operator to agree to terms.

Kirk Gable: What are the measurable benefits you hope to achieve? Why would a business pay 2.3% per thousand assessed value in addition to other operating costs for you continue?

No way...$27,000 for the Inn of the North?
Are these people serious?
Nobody will support this kind of increase and who can blame them?

We must remember this plan is IN DEVELOPMENT and will be revised through feedback from this meeting, from one-on-one talks, and through two future open house opportunities.

http://downtownprincegeorge.wordpress.com

The formula for the levy has not been determined, either, and is subject to input from property owners such as The Coast Hotel. A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation such as made for this story does not mean the Coast's, or another large property owner's, levy can be put out there as fact - it's all up in the air right now subject to additional information and feedback.

Some ways to mitigate the issue for large property owners include a parcel levy, levy caps and other non-linear formulas that may combine a number of approaches. Those options are being considered and worked on.

Disband the DBIA

@Imorge

Technically, the DBIA doesn't exist; the society does, but the bylaw that supports an actual improvement area was defeated in the fall. If the levy doesn't pass (if the businesses chose not to tax themselves), it will be no more.

Basically the DBIA is starting from scratch, but with full knowledge that their measly, varying budget of the past was not effective.

Promoting the merchants of downtown is one thing.

Taking care of downtown conditions that the downtown merchants have virtually no control over is another thing.

Shopping centres have considerable control over who their tenants are and also have reasonable control over what goes on in the "public" portions of their malls, especially if they are indoor.

It is amazing that the City appears to be staying silent on this. Much of it is the City's "problem" that has been generated over decades.

"Basically the DBIA is starting from scratch, but with full knowledge that their measly, varying budget of the past was not effective."

Why blame the budget? What is a budget?

A budget is made up from knowledge about tasks that need to be done through projects and programs.

So far I have not read anything about programs on here. I have read about people to be hired. I have read about money to be extracted from downtown property owners and indirectly from their merchants and their customers.

Why should the merchants be responsible for patrolling downtown to provide security? Did the Inn, the Ramada, the Northern, the owners and renters of the RBC, the HSBC, the realtors, the restaurants, etc. etc. create the problems?

Get rid of the security "manager".

Events coordinator? What events? The Association has had events over the past decade. Have they worked? What does it mean when they have worked? That the event took place? That more money was spent downtown? That people became aware that downtown has something to offer after all and thus spent more money downtown over the rest of the year?

How does one know that one is not throwing good money after bad? At the moment that seems to be the case without more information.

L&M's point is very well made and needs ot be addressed. The Association is flying the flag in public. They need to respond to comments such as that in public. I will be curious what that response will be.

"If the levy doesn't pass (if the businesses chose not to tax themselves), it will be no more."

One needs to be bit carefull here. There could be more than one group, each coming up with its own version of what programs and projects they feel will benefit the downtown property owners and how they see that those programs and projects could be delivered and at what costs. Just as in an election, the onwers may support one more than another.

It seems to me that some alternatives are needed.

1. No DBIA
2. A DBIA for one boundary.
3. A DBIA with another boundary.
4. A DBIA with organization A having these goals and these methods of accomplishing them
5. A DBIA with organization B having those goals and those methods of accomplishing them.

There is more than one choice as far as I can see. Let me know if that is the wrong understanding I have.

This downtown redevelopment should only be talked about during the six months previous to a civic election. Talking about it now is a waste of time. Raise taxes? For what? be specific. To get rid of the social shortcomings downtown so it will feel safer for shoppers? I doubt it. As I have stated before and will state again as long as I have time to waste typing is... Send out questionnaires to a few thousand residents of the city. With a stamped return envelope. Postage paid by Mayor Dan. In the questionnaire just ask one question. And state the answer must be to the point, 50 words or less. The question should be, "Why don't you shop downtown?" No city hall employees or downtown merchants allowed to answer. When Mayor Dan gets the replys, he can put each different reply in a pile of similar replies. Then just act on and correct the largest pile first. Simplicity, I know, but forming a committee is so much fun. Cause you get a free lunch, most likely.

I think it is time for new leadership to take over this association. How long has this guy been part of this for, and what have they really done???

And now they want to raise the rates significantly in order to create three new positions?? I wonder which three friends they have in mind for these positions??

There certainly is no easy fix to the many issues downtown is facing, but I for one believe there needs to be a change at the top.

Lots of comments here. Has anyone actually READ the document? It's full of specifics.

http://downtownprincegeorge.wordpress.com

As for the various positions, it's based on what they'd like to do, not what they did in the past. They didn't have many events if the past because there were no financial nor human resources to pull them off.

As for feedback and comments, there is the link above and there are open houses scheduled for June 4 and June 9 at the Ramada.

Methinks it is time for Kirk Gable to move on. He has been yaking nonsense for years now. Enough is enough. He's in La la if he think anyone with half a brain will buy any
of his nonsence. The Coast is way to smart to buy into any of this.

bohemian ....

Can I see a picture of how the hosts will look in their winter attire?

The second page lists tons of things that have been tried. Tell me, which one has succeeded or, better still, which ones have succeeded? Why more money is needed now after all these successful efforts? How many more of these successes can we take before we go bankrupt?

Why are all the events listed summer events? Where is the Santa Clause Parade? Where is the Harvest Festival? Where is the spring festival? Where is the light up event? Where are the windows decorating contests? Where is the lighting up of downtown with winter street lights similar to the summer basket programme? Where are the Canada Day Celebrations? Where are the Mothers' Day events to Parallel the Fathers' Day Shown' Shine? Where is Easter? Where Are the BC day events? Where are the Rivers Day events? Where are the heritage week events? Where is the heritage part of downtown mentioned? Where are the street closing days for sidewalk sales? Where are the sled dog races, the skijoring races? Where are the ice and snow sculpture competitions? Where are the public Xmas tree decorating contests? Where are the Christmas markets? Where are the Christmas carolling around bonfires events? Where are the skateboarding competitions? Where are the winter street "olympics" - 4 block race on snowshoes, on skiis, on foot, dogsled, human pulled sled, etc. + snowball throwing events - furthest, closest to target, etc. etc .......

As Dave M. said, it does not take a whole ton of people to come up with ideas. At the end of a year or two or three, there will likely be some successes and some duds. The real question is not whether the battles were won, but whether they made a difference and resulted in the war being won with an obvious increase in downtown shoppers and increases in gross revenues by most of the merchants.

Price some of them. Give some idea of how much they are expected to bring in for the merchants. Give some idea of when people will get tired of them and they will want to see something new?

I see that there is an income for events to the BIA Association. How does that work? If owners pay the BIA for running events, and the events generate dollars for booth rental space on the street for instance, where do the merchants and service providers make their extra money from? Where do the banks make money? The hotels? The pawn shops? The cheque cashing services? The call centres? The Engineering offices? The shoe repair services? The stores/services along Victoria Street? The office buildings?

It really seems that the BIA is sucking the downtown building and business owner dry. There are no answers on the four pager. Only questions and opinions that this was not thought through well at all. It is the same old stuff for more money and no greater gurantee of success than the last 10 years.

Between all the committee's,Planning Group's,Society's and special interest groups there should be a whole lot of things happening in this city.How about one more committee?Their only purpose is to figure out how many redundant committee's,society's,Planning Groups,assosiations,interest groups et/al we have running and get rid of the excess.
Give them 3 months to figure it out and close all the ones we dont need.
Make sure they check the roster to see if the same people are on more than one doing the same task as any other's.

just a thought

Between all the committee's,Planning Group's,Society's and special interest groups there should be a whole lot of things happening in this city.How about one more committee?Their only purpose is to figure out how many redundant committee's,society's,Planning Groups,assosiations,interest groups et/al we have running and get rid of the excess.
Give them 3 months to figure it out and close all the ones we dont need.
Make sure they check the roster to see if the same people are on more than one doing the same task as any other's.

just a thought

Managing Your Downtown: Overview

http://www.reddi.gov.on.ca/dr_managingdowntown.htm

Some good advice here. I say we start the next group by getting them to review this advice and make sure they can put it in place.

Note one of the answers to this question:
"FAQ (2) What is the role of the municipality in encouraging downtown revitalization?" = "Providing protective services i.e. policing and fire"

notice the questionnaire:

Does your municipality have a person designated to be the key contact for downtown revitalization? Yes/ No

Does your municipality have a Business Improvement Area? Yes/No

Does your municipality provide technical support to your downtown i.e. planner or economic development person? Yes/No

Is your mayor considered a downtown booster or champion? Yes No

Can you easily get information on your downtown i.e. statistics, maps and photos? Yes/No

Does your municipality have a community improvement plan or another type of plan for the downtown? Yes/No

Are the zoning by-laws favourable for downtown development? Yes/No

Is the downtown addressed in a significant way in the land use policies? Yes/No

Is there a commercial signage by-law? Yes/No

Does the municipality have any recent studies on the downtown i.e. commercial mix assessment or parking? Yes/No

Does your municipality quickly respond to downtown problems noted by the media i.e. parking or safety? Yes/No

Does council consider accessible parking a priority? Yes/No

Does your mayor or CAO regularly meet with downtown business people or stakeholders? Yes/No

Has your municipality recently shared in a public way about any new government programs or policies related to community development? Yes/No

Does your municipality help to market the downtown along with other partners? Yes/No

Is the downtown included in the town's web site? Yes/No

Does your municipality have any financial incentive programs for downtown property owners? Yes/No

Are there programs to help support heritage conservation of special buildings? Yes/No

Has the municipality helped with streetscape improvements? Yes/No

Has any reinvestment recently occurred in municipally owned properties located downtown? Yes/No

"As Dave M. said, it does not take a whole ton of people to come up with ideas."

No, ideation is relatively easy. EXECUTION is the part that takes human resources horsepower. Contrary to what Dave M says, to put on 30 - 40 good events a year would be a full time job for one person, and then some.

To assess that, one should seek the advice of event presenters - Special Events Creators, PGSO, Judy Russell - not engineers.

Gus,

Most of your questions are excellent, but require a staff to work out, test, and improve over time.

Perhaps you have some answers, too, and can propose changes / additional levels of detail to the plan. Are you going to spend hours and hours and hours with no remuneration to do that? I hope so, because that's what others like Kirk are doing right now, and clearly then need, and are asking for, help.

Cougars Fan and Opinionated:

I wonder if either of you were at DPG's AGM and signed yourselves up to be on the board??? I think there are some seats vacant, so you both can start volunteering to get all your good ideas in motion. I'm sure you agree it is way more productive to contribute than to complain.

Why don't we turn the entire downtown into one big social service, social housing city for the homeless, mentally ill, and chronic substance abusers.

Oh wait, that project was completed several years ago.

I hope all of you are downtown business owners. If not, it's really none of your business. It's their money, their assocoation and their right to do whatever they want with it. It isn't taxpayers money. If the businesses agree to go ahead, good on them. We all have benefitted from what they have done, are doing and will do and it doesn't cost us a dime. For the businesses that don't want to pony up - I think they are short sighted and don't really care about the future of the city. They only want to line their pockets and run; as many businesses in Prince George have done for years.

You are 100% on the money GoodCitizen!!

"I hope all of you are downtown business owners. If not, it's really none of your business."

Actually it is "our" town. Anything that goes on in this town that impact the public part of our town is "our" business. When it stops being "our" business, we are in deep doo doo.

What happens inside a mall such as the Pine Centre is their business, until it becomes an eyesore outside, with un-maintained signs, dumpster all around, people camping on the broken pavement, impacting the value of the surrounding businesses and housing.

When such a derelict private centre keeps on saying they will improve the situation and put out plan after plan of how to do it and 10 years later it is the same or worse, then it is hight time to make it "our" business, just as it is high time to make it "our" business to get burned out building renovated or torn down.

It is also "our" business when industry pollutes and gives the town an image of a gritty mill town.

I do not have to own the business in order to express an opinon either for or against a business or a business organization.

BTW, I believe it is the property owners who are taxed, not the businesses that may rent some of the space in those buildings.

I'm afraid that everyone is way off base!........................... ..........................................
.
There is no such thing as "Downtown Improvement" and never will be!............

The day people finally get this.... is the day we can start spending that money, time and effort on something that might actually be possible, say perhaps food for the homeless..

It's all a buncha' pissin in the wind and it starts with the westgates and big box stores being approved BY the city council FOR the companies with the CASH. Try getting them to ante up for the DIA!

Give me 3 specific examples of what the DBIA has accomplished since its inception to improve the downtown. Specialty Avenue doesn't need staff to improve its look. What about the Gateway - they didn't hire staff - the business owners didn't need studies they just acted.
It is time for DBIA to set up some measurable objectives and meet them or fold. Flower baskets and trees are not worth thousands of dollars in extra tax levies a year.
I am a property owner who has paid and paid and paid into this fund and the new proposal to hire 4 staff to do god knows what really ticks me off.

I'm afraid that everyone is way off base!........................... ..........................................
.
There is no such thing as "Downtown Improvement" and never will be!............

The day people finally get this.... is the day we can start spending that money, time and effort on something that might actually be possible, say perhaps food for the homeless..

It's all a buncha' pissin in the wind and it starts with the westgates and big box stores being approved BY the city council FOR the companies with the CASH. Try getting them to ante up for the DIA!

Kirk Gable has not succeeded at anything else but piss off those downtown business owners 'who are successfull' in running profitable businesses.

It appears Kirk and his gang represent alot of unsuccessful businesses who can't make a profit so they are out to make sure no one else does either?