Thank you Ben. Well said.

I totally agree. This abusive spending has to stop.

Agreed,what I still haven't come to understand is if there is such a need for a performing art's centre,why the private sector hasn't jumped in to build it.

Scared of a massive financial loss maybe?

"Somewhere or somehow the City Council has missed the fact that we are in a recession."

Whether PAC or RCMP or Boundary Rd. or Industrial Park, or all-weather Soccer fields behind a new High School or BC Winter Games and dozens of other small or large projects, all of these take a long time to plan - some longer than others.

When people stop planning and striving for better quality, and even quantity on occasion, whether that is each one of us or the various organizations which make up society, we might as well close shop, erect barriers at the city gates, close the doors to our homes and sit back to see what fate will present to us.

How many of you remember when we were told several decades ago by futurists such as Toffler that we are in transition from the industrial age to the knowledge industry age? His book, Future Shock was written in 1970. His book Third Wave came out 10 years later.

Remember the notions of Third Wave?

The first was the agrarian age
The second the Industrial Revolution
The third is post-industrial society.

I believe the sooner small communities like Prince George begin to understand that and take the appropriate action, the sooner cities this size will no longer be drained of their population as many cities like Prince George are across the country by people moving to larger urban centres which are drawing in those people because they are part of those cities are part of the third wave and can give people the things they are being taught to expect in life.

As Toffler said in one of his books: "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."

"what I still haven't come to understand is if there is such a need for a performing art's centre, why the private sector hasn't jumped in to build it."

For the same reason that the private sector has not jumped in to build either of the two pools, the CN Centre, the Kin Centre, the Civic Centre, the Library, the Gallery, the museums, the RCMP station, the airport, etc. etc.

Private sectors prefer to take taxpayers money directly by building casinos and even moving out of those tht may have been built in the wrong place or are too small.

I am not too sure what is so difficult to understand about that.

None of the big facilities built on credit in this city pay their own way. They all need to be supported by taxpayers' money, annually.

The new PAC will be just another one that can't pay its own way.

The Mayor said that garbage collection and water/sewer rates will be increased over and over again until "they pay their own way."

Why???

What sense does it make to demand that basic necessities like garbage collection and sewer and water are paid for entirely by new higher fees when luxuries are freely propped up with taxpayers' money?

What DO our property taxes pay for if not for the services that come to our properties, like water, sewer and garbage pick up?

Something, somebody has put the cart in front of the horse!

I agree with diplomat.

The problem is that what are basic necessities to one person are not to another.

Even water, sewer, storm drainage, paved roads, garbage collection, door to door mail service, etc. are not basic necessities provided to some living within the boundaries of the City.

There are still people who are on their own septic service, have their own wells and allow rainwater gathered on harder surfaces to percolate into the ground. Many of them are quite happy with their circumstances and would like to support other things with their taxes that they cannot take care of themselves.

I think we need a much more user friendly version of where the City spends the tax dollars every year. One really has to hunt to find individual grants to organizations, carrying costs attributed to building infrastructure, maintenance costs broken down by operation, user fee income per operation, actual user-use numbers and subsidy per user-use, etc.

However, I am sure that we are not supposed to see such information because there may be one interest group fighting another.

Notice I used interest group, not special interest group.

Excellent posts gus.

Also, instead of advocating for a referendum every time a decision item comes up that some people are not comfortable with, how about they instead just seek out and support those electoral candidates who will represent their views when it's time to actually make the decisions?

Afterall, is the investment of taxpayer dollars into a capital project in PG such an extraordinary event that it needs special voter approval? If that's the case, why not do it for large road repair contracts, fleet vehicle purchases by the city, storm drain upgrades, soccer field installations, etc? Why not have the taxpayers vote on everything that happens in the city? Heck, why even have a Mayor and City Council?

What is the financial situation of the PG Symphony? Or all of the other stakeholders who are hoping to use this facility? These are very difficult times for charity's and groups who rely on surplus cash from the public for their sustenance.

City Council are not in control of spending. We have a weak City Council, led by a mayor that is too scared, and misled by City bureaucrats that have no concept of fiscal restraint. The RCMP building and the Performing Arts Centre, will add $100 million to the City's debt load. Let's have an early referendum for both the RCMP building and the Performing Arts Centre, and vote their demise immediately. Let's even try to save money and have the RCMP and the PAC on the same referendum. The combining of these questions on the same referendum will save an immedediate $150,000.

City Council are not in control of spending. We have a weak City Council, led by a mayor that is too scared, and misled by City bureaucrats that have no concept of fiscal restraint. The RCMP building and the Performing Arts Centre, will add $100 million to the City's debt load. Let's have an early referendum for both the RCMP building and the Performing Arts Centre, and vote their demise immediately. Let's even try to save money and have the RCMP and the PAC on the same referendum. The combining of these questions on the same referendum will save an immedediate $150,000.

"The RCMP building and the Performing Arts Centre, will add $100 million to the City's debt load"

This statement is not true.

What we do know as true is that the RCMP station will need to be funded 100% by the city and that the latest price for it is around 40M if it gets built.

We also know that the PAC has a total cost estimate of 40-50M, however, we have NO IDEA what portion the city would be responsible for, so at this point in time it is impossible to predict how it would impact our debt load. That is the whole point of doing the detailed business plan, looking into funding sources, etc. Only then would we have an idea as to what we'd be responsible for and whether it would be a feasible project to take on.

I'm not so sure why people think that the city would be on the hook for the total costs of the PAC since I don't think it's EVER been billed as a project that we would fund in full. In fact all I've heard from the city is the contrary, that we will not proceed with it unless we have some form of cost sharing. Interesting how media never seems to follow up on stuff like that. I suppose its just the bias coming through :)

Property taxes should be for roads, water sewer (which I don't get), fire and police protection and the planning/maintenance for these items and nothing else IMO.

If you want to subsidize someones sporting events and pleasure events, then maybe the city needs to get authority to implement a consumption tax of some sort so that citizens have choice... why should pensioners and those on fixed incomes, out of or under employed be the ones picking up the tab for someone else's fun and games?

The zero liability crowd needs to be brought under control IMO... they can not be allowed to continue holding the home owners hostage like this.

"...the city needs to get authority to implement a consumption tax of some sort so that citizens have choice... why should pensioners and those on fixed incomes, out of or under employed be the ones picking up the tab for someone else's fun and games?"

This *consumption tax* already exists!

It's called a membership or ticket bought before one is let in to attend an event.