So back to no fireworks for Canada Day. How sad for our community that noone could have got the word out maybe a few months ago that this was not going to happen this year. And just maybe get a sponsor or two on board or even get people to pitch in to raise money for such an event.

The fireworks were definitely missed. The rest of the celebration however seemed to go well.
Wonder if something could be worked out with transit to pick up people at designated parking areas, ie CNCenter, and take people to the park. Finding parking was definitely an issue for some...
just a suggestion....

re:MeBubba

The word about the fireworks WAS out a few months ago. I read it in the citizen. There was even an advertisement requesting multiple sponsors in an attempt to ask them to donate smaller amounts but from more people. It didn't work.

I'm sad about this too. But here's what I think. Canfor refused to rebuild NCP after last years fire (I used to work there) and since then I've seen some co-workers come close to losing their vehicle, I've seen some of them NOT be able to put food onto the table and have asked (in desperation)
for money from people they never would have asked. To Canfor this closure is long forgotten now... but still lingers on today with many ex-employees. As I write this I have ex-cowrkers who are too young to retire yet to old that no one will hire them.

You think Canfor would have stepped forward with all of their insurance money and coughed up the money for fireworks. After all the hardship they have caused I would have hoped that they would have become better corporate citizens in this community.

Oh sorry, I forgot... that's TOO MUCH TO ASK.

Canfor... not only have you ruined a lot of peoples lives by shutting down what was a profitable plywood plant but you are also NOT very patriotic and have become a very poor, distant corporate citizen of PG.

Shame on you.

P.S. How's those bonuses working out for ya this year?

NO, You can not blame everthing on Canfor. Look at all the people that Canfor is still employing, when there product is not selling. When you can go and buy a 2x4 stud for $1.79, this includes what the retailors making money on it. Can you seriously say that any mill are being bad, by finding ways to keep people employed.

Canfor is continuosly pestered for money from this community, Take a walk through UNBC, CN CENTER and any other public facility. There name is everywhere. To slam them when there down on their knees, is a little bit too selfish on your part.

You would figure if it was so profitable that someone else would step forward and build a plywood plant. The problem with plywood is that, people rather use that cheaper OSB garbage. Thus plywood market has been shrinking for the last twenty years and will likely continue to shrink. Thus why make that kind of investment now. Besides, new construction is way down, and will likely be down for a while.

Thank you "He spoke"! It gets very tiring hearing so many people speak poorly of Canfor. You said it well!

Canfor had to spend the NCP insurance money within 1 year (I think that was the timeline, correct me if I'm wrong!), and they have invested it in other mills. Fort St John has a new energy system, for example. Re-building NCP didn't make good business sense... no reason to rebuild a mill just to lose money.

What really sticks in my craw is that anyone who does not have their head in their a$$ realizes that we are in very difficult times right now. To the point where no one was willing to sponsor Canada Day fireworks, and yet whether the money is available or not we will have a new arts center and RCMP building shoved down our throats. I sound like a broken record but there is not ONE street in this town that I can drive or ride a motorcycle down that I don't have to dodge cracks and potholes. Where is the common sense?

"Oh sorry, I forgot... that's TOO MUCH TO ASK."

Yes it is. Current Canfor staff employees have already taken rollbacks of a minimum of 17%. It would be irresponsible of Canfor to pay $500k for fireworks at the same time as these rollbacks.

No one owes anyone a job. This is the sad truth. It disgusts me how quickly everyone turns on Canfor. Its not Canfor's job to look out for anyones future. Its up to the individual to take care of themselves. To expect otherwise is old world thinking in the new world and it just doesnt fit.

I miss Ben being on the radio :(

The following is from a article I found the link to, on Garth Turner's web site greater fool.ca

True, Canadian banks have avoided some of the sillier extremes, particularly those related to off-balance sheet leverage. But the key problem in Canada is precisely the same as it is in the other western countries now experiencing bank solvency crises. Home prices have grown to an abnormally high multiple of employment income, supported by a rapid expansion in mortgage debt.


The key difference between Canada and other markets is that in Canada
the cost of bad home loans have been socialized in advance. In Canada, we didn’t need to disguise our sub-prime excesses within dubious mortgage-backed securities. Why create an alphabet soup of bogus AAA paper when our government provides seemingly limitless quantities of underpriced mortgage insurance? As a formula for creating housing froth it has been virtually unbeatable. Housing markets may be cratering throughout the world, yet one observes a perverse new high in Canadian real estate prices in May of 2009.

The key to Canada’s bubbly housing success been the CMHC . The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation writes guarantees on most Canadian mortgages originated at greater than 80% Loan-to-Value. This agency has been on a massive expansion binge of late. In 2008, a year of synchronized global recession, the CMHC expanded its mortgage insurance in force by a whopping 18%. CMHC now guarantees $407.7 Billion of high loan-to-value mortgages and an additional $233.9 Billion of securitized mortgages.

In all, the CMHC mortgage guarantees are equal to slightly more than half of Canada’s GDP. Against this total, CMHC has miniscule equity capital of $8.1 Billion. How is it that more than $630 Billion of dodgy mortgages can be guaranteed by an entity posting just over 1% in equity? This is a question that curiously appears to have escaped the notice of Canada’s top notch financial regulators.

The role of the Canadian banks has been to commit capital to CMHC-insured mortgages as quickly as they receive applications. It is not mortgage lending in the traditional sense, more like underwriting government bonds and taking a 150 basis point spread as compensation. In this way, the Canadian real-estate bubble looks a lot like its American cousin. Home loans are being written for those who likely cannot pay by lenders who pass through the credit risk to a third party. However, in the case of Canada, the third party is our own government and not the Chinese or Saudis who snapped up American mortgage paper.

There is more of this article at the following link:

http://marketdepth.typepad.com/marketdepth/2009/06/sell-the-banks.html

"canada day fireworks cancelled" search got mainly Toronto hits since the municipal ones in various parts of the city were cancelled due to th strike. They do have several private ones which wnet ahead.

Moose Jaw is the only one I could find that reduced their Canada day program by cutting out the paid entertainment (which we do not have anyway) and just putting on the fireworks.

http://www.mjtimes.sk.ca/index.cfm?sid=135725&sc=15

The Canada day fireworks have been in jeopardy here many times. Does anyone remember if this is the first time they actually did not happen?

$500,000 bucks for fireworks? Give your head a shake. The First Litre pub sponsored it for years at 10 grand a year.

NCP was profitable and don't forget it. I will tell you what I know. You would NOT have the same attitude if YOUR employer decided to close down and left you unable to find work. You'd be pissed.

And to simply say that everyone should look out for themselves is hogwash. What the heck did you think they were doing working at NCP for MORE THAN 30 YEARS. Now because they lost their jobs after THAT many years you're going to say that they should have been looking our for themselves?

Some of these people are old enough that they were pulled out of school by their parents and put to work on the farm. They are unable to read or write. Getting a high school diploma (or equivalent) would take probably 8 years.

You've got no heart... no heart at all.


And how much of a hit did the canfor staff take on their bonuses (and they DO get them)...

Why is Meisner no longer on the radio?

Fireworks??????? What are you people, 7 years old?

Anyone want a wager that the fuel that is selling for $1.091 a liter will just happen to raise enough to have the last number go back to a 9...like at least $1.099 or more in the next week or so...

Oh..Ben is on holidays...thus not on the radio...
FYI

Yes the staff at Canfor did get their bonus this year but did not get any for the last two. Most staff took a 7-12% wage loss and have not gotten that back as of yet. There have been many staff being fired or layed of lately so do not think that they have it good. There is always the fear that with all the mill closures that the higher ups will move someone in "the big boys club" into your job. No one is safe but it is not Canfor's fault or any of the mills. It is the high dollar, housing crash in the US, recession, people scared to spend and the big time losses every quarter the mills suffer. If you had a business, how long would you stay open if you lost millions every month? I think Canfor is only doing what is necessary to keep at least some people working. All we can hope and pray for is for the markets to turn around soon so that more mills wont close. IMO

Charles is at it again.

So your opinion about that copied portion of an article is what? Agree? Disagree? Why?

"Home prices have grown to an abnormally high multiple of employment income, supported by a rapid expansion in mortgage debt."

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Home prices have jumped due to a rapid rise in mortgage debt?

Or mortage debt has had a rapid rise due to the increase in home prices?

Actually if one were to compare the price of houses over the decades and track it in relation to the average FAMILY income over the decades there has not been much of a difference. It is in the range of 4 times the annual FAMILY income.

Of course there are tremendous regional differences both within the provinces, in Canada as well as in the USA. Averages really begin to lose their meaning.

In PG for instance, the average family income is above $70,000 according to the 2006 census. Thus, average house prices in the $200,000 to $250,000 range are well within the 4x measure.

Vancouver, Kelowna, Calgary, Toronto are on the high side and are really not going down very much when compared to much of the USA.

Oh, frogot tho add that I cannot see the relationship of employment income to home prices being an abnormally high multiple. Can you provide some proof?

re:Shellshadow - Yes the staff at Canfor did get their bonus this year but did not get any for the last two.

What a crock!

Did those bonuses come out of the NCP insurance payout or did it come out of NCP's extended severance that the employees are CURRENTLY FIGHTING FOR but have so far been denied?

Listen... I would have taken a 7 - 12% wage cut too, because the bonuses would take their wages to the equivalent of a RAISE.

You're not hearing me..... CANFOR WAS NOT LOSING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OPERATING N.C.P.

When it burnt down it was profitable and always had been.

I'm not talking about any other outfit but NCP... it was not a closure they were planning.... they tokk advantage of an insurance payout.

Period.

"Newtechie" were you privy to the financial information regarding NCP? Are you aware that there are many costs to operating a business that are not cash expenses? Whether or not this business was making money, the decision to not rebuild NCP was a long thought out business decision. Unfortunately, just like people, businesses can't always plan for a disaster to happen or what the outcome might be. I had family that worked at NCP and, my understanding, is that a lot of support was offered to the employees that were put out. Individuals close to me took advantage of that support and increased their education to find other work. Please do not make it sound like Canfor did nothing and that they were making millions, because I don't think that is fair to this organization.

GO RIDERS GO!! first game of the season for them this evening!!

GO RIDERS GO!!

"Listen... I would have taken a 7 - 12% wage cut too, because the bonuses would take their wages to the equivalent of a RAISE."

Obviously Canfor staff employees that have been around for a long time consider the bonus to be part of their annual compensation. So no, its not a raise by any measure.

NCP was not making money on a cash basis OR an accounting basis when it burned.

"You've got no heart... no heart at all."

I dont want to see anyone suffer. But here in the real world people suffer, starve, are murdered and tortured everyday. I think its a terrible tragedy that someone looses there job at 55 and cant read or retire. That doesnt make it anyones problem but theirs. I suffered through 4 years or university and 2 years of minimal pay to get something for myself. So its difficult for me to feel sorry for someone who got a good job at 19 and made minimal sacrifices and now complains that "the company screwed me over" while they spent every penny for the last 30 years.

"it was not a closure they were planning"

True. But considering that Canfor now makes no board at all with the exception of the CanLP OSB Joint Venture I am pretty sure it would be down by now.

Jim Pattison is a large shareholder in Canfor and he runs it for profit period. Employee dedication is not part of his businesses. Save-On is a good example. He laid off and got rid of most full time staff who were making a good living and hired part-time minimum wage employees. People who write in extolling the virtues oof Canfor are probably using Canfor computers.

re;muckermike

Great post!

Save-on foods sucks. Superstore pays their employees good wages and they still manage to handily undercut Save-ons's prices.
I don't want to pay a dollar more on every item just so I can get my groceries bagged.
I can spend 200.00 at SS for groceries or I can buy the same/similar items at Save-on and pay 250.00. Then they have the gall to say "you saved X dollars today" Hardly.
they should be saying "you got hosed X dollars today" God bless Jimmy and the christian businessmen's association.

"Newtechie" were you privy to the financial information regarding NCP? Are you aware that there are many costs to operating a business that are not cash expenses? Whether or not this business was making money, the decision to not rebuild NCP was a long thought out business decision. Unfortunately, just like people, businesses can't always plan for a disaster to happen or what the outcome might be. I had family that worked at NCP and, my understanding, is that a lot of support was offered to the employees that were put out. Individuals close to me took advantage of that support and increased their education to find other work. Please do not make it sound like Canfor did nothing and that they were making millions, because I don't think that is fair to this organization.

So what are the plans with PG sawmill? Is the Union wanting the world in these hardtimes?

Rumour on the street is a rollback coming or even more..does anyone have any info on this?

Hi. New to posting but I have been reading for a long time. Fireworks. I saw only one mention of the pub that sponsored this in here. I dont frequent them but 10.000 dollars??? Wow. I went to the display, though, and how super was it for all of us to see that. If the owner ever reads this, thanks so very much. If I remember, it was for more than one year. Thanks to the owner of those pubs.
BC racer, your idea of busses is super.
I hope the powers that be see that and act.
Lots of discussion for so long about potholes here..I remember , when on "Sickpig", for newer users here ,ckpg,(it was called that from cjci) on the Meisner show, Ben asked the caller if he phoned the city about the pothole and he said no, but they should know about it already. I could just imagine Ben shaking his head.
People, If you have a pothole to report, please do it. They(really) are printed out in hard copy and sorted as to the area to be patched. As there are many, we really try hard. O.K. ,so I let my employer slip.
Might have answers about them ,or not.

As for Canfor(and I really had to decide weather to make them a capital "C"}, for a long time I was a "29" wonder. Laid off and rehired again just by paper hiring.Just so we wouldn'n get union benifits. So how has Canfor{not local ppwc} improved through the years??

Buy the way, the pothole line is still 2505617525. Ok, it's been a weird week but please call. We will fill them....

"Newtechie" were you privy to the financial information regarding NCP? Are you aware that there are many costs to operating a business that are not cash expenses? Whether or not this business was making money, the decision to not rebuild NCP was a long thought out business decision. Unfortunately, just like people, businesses can't always plan for a disaster to happen or what the outcome might be. I had family that worked at NCP and, my understanding, is that a lot of support was offered to the employees that were put out. Individuals close to me took advantage of that support and increased their education to find other work. Please do not make it sound like Canfor did nothing and that they were making millions, because I don't think that is fair to this organization.

I am not sure why my comment posted a second time when I refreshed this page...my apologies.

re;CheGie777... the decision to not rebuild NCP was a long thought out business decision.

Who are trying to kid? Canfor knew the day NCP burnt down they were NOT going to rebuild.

Even if they "thought about it" for a while it may have been two months... and that's not exactly a long thought out decision. Besides... it's almost a given that when NCP burnt down the top exec's sat in the boardroom, closed the doors, and had a shot of brandy to CELEBRATE.

The fact that you're defending their decision raises some suspicions.

Sleep well tonight, I know a lot of people who won't be. But you don't care.

To all those folks who made the right decisions and their company has not tossed aside... Congrats... here's a cup of compassion and hopes that you don't find yourself in a situation beyond your control.

To those that worked hard and maybe had no decisions to make as life made them for you and were cast aside by circumstances. I hope better times are ahead for you.

Croft Road has about a dozen deep suspension cracking potholes right in the S-curve.

There is a huge one close to the Alpine Pub and a few more along South Kelly Road.

There is a whole field of them next to the intersection of Highland Drive and Glenngarry.

And there are quite a few on.....well, etc, etc, etc.

To all those folks who made the right decisions and their company has not tossed aside... Congrats... here's a cup of compassion and hopes that you don't find yourself in a situation beyond your control.

To those that worked hard and maybe had no decisions to make as life made them for you and were cast aside by circumstances. I hope better times are ahead for you.

Missing e-mail inquiry needed
Times Colonist July 3, 2009

New Democrat Leonard Krog is right. Premier Gordon Campbell should order an independent, public investigation into the apparent loss of four years of e-mails regarding the sale of B.C. Rail.

The destruction of the provincial cabinet and executive staff e-mails from 2001 through 2005 was revealed last month in the B.C. Supreme Court, where three former government employees are being tried in a corruption case. The charges against them were laid in the wake of police raids on the legislature in December 2003.

Justice Elizabeth Bennett has ruled that the e-mails of 15 MLAs and former MLAs dealing with government and the Pilothouse lobbying firm and sent in 2003 or 2004, are likely relevant to the case. This week, she granted a defence application to get the records.

There is still a problem with the e-mails of the premier and cabinet ministers. Court has been told that the government's backup tapes are only kept for 13 months and those e-mails are gone.

Given the importance of cabinet discussions -- especially on matters such as the B.C. Rail deal -- that statement would indicate the government's information management system needs a complete overhaul.

Less important government documents are still available, after all. Why were the B.C. Rail ones destroyed? And why were at least some of them destroyed after the legislature raids, when there was no doubt the matter would be going before the courts? Did no one think these e-mails might matter?

The government has an obligation to retain important records. To that end, it backs up its electronic data, including e-mails. The Document Disposal Act requires that electronic records be kept for seven years, unless they are classed as transitory or purely temporary in nature.

These e-mails might have contained information that was key to the case; they might have held evidence that would have made the difference between verdicts of guilty or not guilty. They might have even contained information that could have resulted in charges against other people.

We can't say for sure, because the e-mails are gone.

But the problem goes beyond this one case. It raises serious questions about how the government is being run and might mean we will never get needed answers.

Premier Gordon Campbell says the government has retained all records that the law required it to keep. If that is the case, then the law needs to be replaced with something more substantial.

If communications regarding cabinet decisions, such as the sale of B.C. Rail, can be discarded without a second thought, the existing law has too much wiggle room.

Krog is calling for an investigation that would be confined to the B.C. Rail e-mails. That would be a start, and could lead to a much more comprehensive review.

The government should draft new policies covering the retention of records, ones that will ensure that important documents will be protected.

And it should make sure that the policies are followed, even by the people with the largest offices in the legislature.

The destruction of potentially important records, for whatever reason, makes the government look incompetent at best and unscrupulous at worst.

This has the potential to become the largest political scandal of the decade. Even if those e-mails have all been destroyed, the government should still take steps to stop further losses.

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/Missing+mail+inquiry+needed/1756040/story.html

I realize it is a difference of opinion but really guys, doesnt it get a little tired ranting on about the evil capitalists? The companies/owners you are railing against dont consider 'operating for profit' to be an insult. I think you are preaching to the choir here, or to no one at all. As a believer in free enterprise i find criticisms of Canfor and others for not buying us fireworks to be somewhat absurd. It is a voluntary sponsorship after all.

Thank you Caranmacil!

"Newtechie" I think it is quite ignorant to state that the "top execs" sat in a boardroom and had a shot of brandy to celebrate. Do you think that these are cold, heartless individuals that don't care about anyone else?? Given the discussion on this post, alone, Canfor has supported this community and its people for how long? And now because an uncontrollable event happened that has adversely affected many people they become the bad guys. No matter what the reasons are behind NCP not being rebuilt, it is not fair to speak poorly of Canfor.

Your statement that they knew they wouldn't be rebuilding the day it burnt day has me wondering about your comment and how you would be able to make one of that nature....is there something you know that the rest of us don't??

I hope you sleep well tonight too, considering how long you have very negatively ranted on about a company that employees, directly and indirectly, a very, very significant number of individuals within this community. If you were put out of place by the NCP incident, I hope you take advantage of the support that was, and is still, available to you today.

Have a great weekend everyone! The beautiful weather has returned....

Yes, to answer your question, the ranting has been getting a little tiresome for a long, long time.

It's like sawing off the tree branch that they are sitting on...

I'm surprized they haven't brought up potholes or the PAC.

Hmmmmmm.... how come nobody comments about great sex anymore ???

Or is it that just us Rabbits are having all the fun ??

:-)

V.

It doesn/t have to be *potholes OR the PAC.*

We can have potholes AND the PAC.

I think Gordon Campbell is doing a great job!
Happy Friday

Ohhhhh..... trollin'!!!!!!

CheGie777 wrote: "Your statement that they knew they wouldn't be rebuilding the day it burnt day has me wondering about your comment and how you would be able to make one of that nature...."

In my opinion, if they did not have a good idea of what their most likely option to carry on with would be - and there would be many more than the simple build or not build - as soon as they realized the fire damages were total, they would not have been good business people.

Why not? Because those firms that are successful know the value of each production facility they have with respect to the marketplace and its likely lifetime as an income producer in that market.

In addition, anyone who does their financial due diligence would wait till a few other pieces fall into place, not the least of which would be talking to the insurance company to see what kind of a deal they can get.

I do not think it is going out on a limb to say that they likely knew from the day the plant burnt what their likely decision would be with respect to the plant.

Circus is comin' te town. Bringin' the elephants and offering kids a ride on the big pacoderms. Ads goin' up all over the place.

Hope they don't take them for a walk on the roads. They are liable to get their foot caught in a pothole.

I tell ya, it's all that Campbell fella's doin' - potholes, placiderms, PACs, NCP fires. He's got an in with that Paterson or Pattison fella, ya know.

"He laid off and got rid of most full time staff who were making a good living and hired part-time minimum wage employees."

Is it a job or welfare? If you make a good living but can be replaced by the next warm body through the door you better watch your back, the days of easy money and free rides are gone. Should have saved some money in the 60s and 70s.

I'm with opinionated. Campbell is doing just fine. Maybe we should have Kim Jong-il from North Korea come over and rule these "complainers" for a while and maybe they might realize how good it is here.

For starters turns those lights out at 8PM (not enough power), then say something bad about the supreme leader detention or torture.....they don't even get to where the clothes they want(see wiki there's a dress code in North Korea).

Oh yes, you drove throw a "pothole" or have to look for work, or you didn't get to see a firework.........yup it's an outrage!!!!

"I tell ya, it's all that Campbell fella's doin' - potholes, placiderms, PACs, NCP fires. He's got an in with that Paterson or Pattison fella, ya know."

That did give me a laugh.

But here is an interesting connection. Remember Glen Clark? Illustrious former leader of the Communist Party (NDP). You know whos boy he is now right? He is one of Jimmys reps on the Canfor BOD. Talk about a sellout. A leader of the lefty (money for everyone) party is working for a righty union buster! Crazy!

Actually Clark is NOT on the Canfor BOD, he's an executive of the Jim Pattison Group.

http://www.jimpattison.com/corporate/executives-directors.htm

Swingline. Go to the following link, and click on Glen Clark's name.

http://www.canfor.com/company/biographies/directors.asp

Of course Born in BC must be right, he is after all, clearly a follower of the Goebell's fascist dictum of tell a lie big enough and often enough and everyone will believe it.

If the NDP were communist, my friend, you would be in a work camp in the high arctic instead of spreading lying garbage.

Elephants? Where are the elephants?

The nice thing about complaining about the Liberals is that it's much easier than finding things the NDP have done to brag about.

Has anyone actually seen the secret BCRail-CN deal?

We're trying to get an injunction to have the agreement opened to the public before July 14, 2009.

We don't know for sure, of course, never having seen the document, but rumour has it that the 5th anniversary of the deal (July 14) triggers a massive transfer of BCRail lands into CN pockets for $1.

There's a re-possession (for cause) clause too, we understand.

There's a tricky bit about CN running across First Nations lands without permission. Deal-breaker.

So we want to see that deal. It doesn't seem such a lot to ask, after waiting 5 years.

It would help if people would write or phone Leonard Krog, BC Opposition Justice Critic, and ask him to work on this project. It's the only chance we'll get to decide what WE want, in the next 990 years.

His e.mail: leonard.krog.mla@leg.bc.ca
His Constituency Office phone: (250) 714-0630.

More about this on:The Legislature Raids at http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

I had a conversation with an ex-coworker after my postings today (he worked in shipping at NCP) and he commented that NCP had so many orders to fill (when it burnt down) that even if we worked overtime for the rest of the year we would have had trouble filling them.

Money losing outfit? I don't think so...

With so many people losing their JOBS it would be nice to see our city council trying to bring in some new business. All we seem to be doing is bringing in losers and giving them new houseing and a certin councilor wants to make a big building where people can shoot up after we attract losers from all over Canada and our City is ruined. I guess that councilor will just move on to someplace nice. I wonder if this councilor knows that not all the people in P.G. want what he wants. He makes good government wages. Its hard to watch our money spent on so many government projects that we don't want.

Elephants? Where are the elephants?

Is the circus coming to town?