Ben and Elaine. How about running a poll on opinion250.com asking people if they are in favor of the City of Prince George borrowing a whole bunch of money at this time to build new buildings in the city.

Also anyone who is interested in financial news should bookmark the web site "Fair Pensions For All". The news articles on this site are not just about pensions, there are also a lot of real interesting articles on it about the general money issues which are sure to be discussed as we go through the deleveraging process after the bursting of our several decades long (and historic) credit/debt bubble.

The link to this web site is:

http://fairpensionsforall.blogspot.com/

I think another good web site that people who are interested in financial news should bookmark is "The Automatic Earth". There are always lots of excellent news articles posted on it on about our current financial crisis. The link to this site is:

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/

If anyone has the links to any other good financial news web sites, please post them. It is always good to know as much as possible about what is going on in our financial world.

Tax revolt growing, Castlegar latest to get notice

A third B.C. forest company is fighting its property taxes, following on the heals of Catalyst Paper and TimberWest, and prompting B.C. Council of Forest Industries president John Allan to say a revolt is spreading among companies that believe their taxes are unreasonably high.
"It's probably going to spread to some degree," Allan said, noting that companies are losing money yet are faced with fixed property taxes that have been pegged at a high rate. "It's a recognition that municipal budgets could be tighter, that these companies employ a lot of people and pay a lot of taxes and they are sick and tired of being gouged over and above the services they consume."

Mercer International, owners of the Zellstoff Celgar pulp mill at Castlegar, failed to meet a July 2 deadline to pay $3.6 million charged by the city, filing a petition in B.C. Supreme Court instead. The petition challenges the municipality's tax bylaw, Castlegar Mayor Lawrence Chernoff said Wednesday.

"The city of Castlegar plans to defend its bylaws and expects Celgar to pay its property tax bill like any other responsible taxpayer," Chernoff said. "This is opening the floodgates to all heavy industry in the province. In my area, you could have Teck Cominco in Trail saying, 'If Celgar is not going to pay its taxes, why should we?' "

He said resource communities want heavy industry to stay, but without the tax base industry provides, the communities cannot survive.

Last week, Catalyst Paper paid only $6 million of the $23 million it has been levied by the municipalities of North Cowichan Port Alberni, Campbell River and Powell River. TimberWest Forest has also challenged Campbell River's $1-million tax bill.

http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/story.html?id=69fd4e84-802e-493e-9a3e-24f7a5966418

"He said resource communities want heavy industry to stay, but without the tax base industry provides, the communities cannot survive."

Sure they can. They can increase the residential taxes to compensate and the workers can go on strike to get more money from the industries to cover their tax increases.

Or, there is the other scenario of the workers moving to other communities where industry still pays their fair share to cover such things as road maintenance required more frequently due to the heavy industrial trucks pounding them to bits and piecers to service the heavy industries that do not use rail. That way the workers have less tax. And that way the industry will have to offer higher salaries in order to attract workers.

I just do not understand why people do not understand that someone is going to get squeezed for a year or two or three and eventually all will end up the same as they were before.

"gouged over and above the services they consume."

And what services do they consume?

1. Road surface deterioration
2. Road traffic increase due to heavy truck configuration
3. Air deterioration (pollution)
4. noise intensification (pollution)
5. water deterioration (pollution)
6. large areas of land as buffer zones beyond the land they actually need for their buildings and storage.
7. connection to rail which also uses up land for which, I believe, there is no income to the city.

What services do the 100 people that work at a plant consume? A fraction of what a plant consumes.

Now, I think that if a plant substantially reduced what they typically "consume", by investing the money into a quality operation, then that should be recognized by the city in lower taxes.

Barrel of crude under $60.00 still paying 109.1 at the pump.

July 10th, stil some major league potholes in the roads of our city. I saw one yesterday on Continental Way that could swallow a smart car if you were dumb enough to drive one into it.
metalman.

So out of curiosity, for all the people that comment on this site, how do they feel about Dick Harris representing us again if the election is called. I think it is time to find a new rep.

Gus, How does our level of taxes compare to places like Kamloops, Kelowna and Nanimo. How much taxes do they pay on a average house, 1200 sf, single garage. PG Value 190k.

I saw a preview of Judy Russell's new production of Tommy. It never ceases to amaze me with the talent we have right here in PG. Letia Forster blew me away with her bold voice. Folks I don't even like this particular musical but I wouldn't miss this for the world. What is evident is the absolute need for a performing arts center.Please do not compare it with potholes as that is getting very boreing and a dull excuse.
We have show that PG is progressive offering many choices for folks. One cannot live on sports alone.
Now go out and buy your tickets for Tommy.

Save a Pothole - build an arts emporium for the spoiled few!

Thank you Mr. Harper for putting both feet in your mouth at the international G8 meeting by accusing Mr. Ignatieff of making a certain remark - which he never made!

My last doubts have been entirely removed, thanks to you!

What a klutz!

Inconsiderate Truck Drivers-Excessive Noise
During my employment years, prior to retirement, I spent 10 years driving professionally. I have to question the actions of many of today's truck drivers. I would like to suggest that these drivers pool their money and purchase bumper stickers for their trucks that read, "I LOVE MY JAKE BRAKE".

Inconsiderate Truck Drivers-Excessive Noise
During my employment years, prior to retirement, I spent 10 years driving professionally. I have to question the actions of many of today's truck drivers. I would like to suggest that these drivers pool their money and purchase bumper stickers for their trucks that read, "I LOVE MY JAKE BRAKE".

Do we need a new performing arts centre? No!

Do we want one? Some of us do, some of us don't.

A referendum will reveal the for and against percentages!

Do we need potholes? No! Do we want potholes? No.

All of us want the potholes fixed, once and for all and every year thereafter.

I never get bored of bringing up the myriads of potholes (especially in the outlying areas like the Hart) and the poor condition of some streets and sidewalks.

It's a fact and no excuses can gloss it over.

The last thing on MY wishlist is a Mega PAC.

Take off the blinders diplomat, and try to forward think just a bit.I personally get offened when people remark that there is nothing beyond Hope. With attitude such as yours it's amazing that we even have electricity here.
By the way...the roads are being fixed in case you haven't noticed but some like to complain no matter what.

Thanks, Charles, for posting the links to the stories about pulp mills refusing to pay their municipal taxes, challenging the amounts they are expected to pay in court!

Here we carry on as if PG is insulated from possibility of events like that. It could happen here, especially as the recession is now thought to be deeper and much longer lasting than previously assessed.

Instead, we carry on as usual - planning to add another 100 million to the debt of the city (RCMP & PAC).

We are not even fully funded to do the much needed catch-up work on some of our neglected infrastructure!

Let's go after funding for the PAC from federal and provincial grants even if we have to wait a while!

Councilor Brian Skakun is the only one who seems to understand that the new PAC should not go ahead without first having major federal and provincial funding in place.

Opinionated, you are not only opinionated but the truth seems to be hurting you quite a bit, so what do you do?

Resort to personal insults! Predictable, of course.

Take off the blinders diplomat, and try to forward think just a bit.I personally get offened when people remark that there is nothing beyond Hope. With attitude such as yours it's amazing that we even have electricity here.
By the way...the roads are being fixed in case you haven't noticed but some like to complain no matter what.

The roads are not being fixed properly. Noranda road at Hwy 97 was fixed about a month ago and now all the huge potholes are back. Whatever the city did to fix them, is not lasting. How are the roads going to make it thru until next year?

Well said diplomat!
Those who think a performing arts center is a good investment in the future need to do some research on just how much money these kinds of places lose.
In principal,they are all well and good, but in these economic times they are NOT a good investment!
Unless there is indeed federal and provincial funding!
Good luck with getting that!

The solution to our problems is as plain as the nose on yer face. Just watched a few minutes of CNN. Where to bury wacko Jacko. His brother Germaine wants to plant him in Neverland. Then there is Gary, Indiana lobbying for the family to plant Mikey there. It is about the money isn't it? Why can't our city council and Chamber of Commerce offer to have the King of Pop planted here? Think of the airport, hotels, tour buses, and other jobs and the list goes on. As an aside whenever I see cablevision or hydro digging in someones front yard, Elvis comes immediately to mind. can't help it.

Really getting sick of revenue generating speed traps. City hires a bunch of extra cops because of high crime rates & they promptly throw them on traffic duty. Dicks.

Good news!!! the price of gas just went down 1.2 cents....which conveniently leaves the last digit back at 9, and it only took them 9 days to do it...$1.079...
oh forgot the price of crude oil on the other hand has dropped over $10.oo a barrel...

Hey there bush eater speeding is a crime.

Speed traps are an effective way of catching criminals.

"people remark that there is nothing beyond Hope"
There is plenty north of hope, the problem as those people see it as that there is not as much amenities like a fancy "performing arts centre"
Well boo hoo. If you want to have amenities like Vancouver, stay in Vancouver. One of the many reasons I still live in this region is for the natural amenities like trees and fresh air (outside of town). I would rather see our town focus on the natural experiences, like a simple walk in the woods. I have no use for any of that stuff, and when I want it, I go to Vancouver. Focus on the tourism we have plenty of. The cost is attainable and the employment opportunities are greater. There are limited employment opportunities with PAC, a few minimum wage servers and ushers. Sure there would be a couple hundred construction jobs for the period of construction, then service workers only. Exactly how does that help out town?
Think ROI.

Refurbish the facilities that already exist and maximize their utilization first. Once that capacity has been exceeded, then we can consider a new fancy PAC.

-------------------------------------------
The roads are not being fixed, they are being patched. placing a patch on a patch is not a fix.
Grinding the pavement off for at least the entire lane, filling and packing the foundation ballast and then "paving" properly is fixing the roads.
The problem with the correct solution will be cost. It is much cheaper in the short term to repeatedly patch a spot than to actually repair it. So that begs the question, "are you willing to have your taxes increase so the roads can be repaired properly?" If not, then it is a patching we will go.

"Focus on the tourism we have plenty of."

We do?????? And, other than US plates driving through to Alaska and filling up at WalMarts, what real tourists do we have? Nothing in great numbers. we have no ski hills, we have no golf courses, we have no first class resorts, we have no cultural facilities to keep people more than 2 hours and 43 minutes, we have no lake, we have no river .....

There are very few amenities here that will draw anyone other than the few that want a simple shoddy cabin on a fishing lake exeprience.

I know, there are a few well hidden ones, before anyone responds in that fashion. That is enough for one plane in the winter, one in the summer, and one for fall.

We have no infrasturcture for these things. They will cost much more than any PAC ever will and they will not get any provincial, federal or regional funds to speak of. It has to be total private investment.

Tons of it in the south ..... nothing worth mentioning here.

So dream on.

Posted by: rayban68 on July 10 2009 11:33 AMHey there bush eater speeding is a crime.

Speed traps are an effective way of catching criminals.


So I guess anyone with a ticket has a criminal record then. Thanks for the update.

You are missing the point.
Any town that claims to be a tourist destination has all these big city amenities. Why be like everyone else?

There are beautiful golf courses all over the province, I don't think we could or should compete in that saturated market.

There is one little ski hill right in town on the hart, a world class x-country ski facility and two more ski hills within an hours drive plus powder king 2 hours away.

I personally am offended when I see tourists show up spouting about how they are traveling around enjoying the scenery and what nature has to offer, all the while they are in a 40 foot motor home with washer/dryer, tv, shower, etc. WTF are they even bothering to leave home?

There are plenty of folks from all over the world where their country is so densely populated that they gladly pay thousands just to see a moose browsing in a swamp. They are so exhilarated they barely notice the noseeums.

The infrastructure already exists complements of the forest and mining industry.

We live in the land of ten thousand lakes dude. I can go fishing or boating, actually be on the water 30 minutes from my door. If you are having troubles locating something within your convenience, may I suggest a well known resource called the Recreation Atlas or the Back roads Map book, or for those that abhor the feel of paper we have maps.google.ca.

I am dead set against more industrialized tourism for our area. We have what others do not have and what they want. Let's capitalize on that and forget about competing with Vegas and Disney world. If you cannot handle reality, go ahead and use your discretionary funds to feed the American Mega Corps.

A few random thoughts:

- Speed traps catch people who speed. Don't want to risk a ticket? Don't speed. It's a simple concept really.
- Industries that are refusing to pay their city taxes should have the roads to their yards deactivated, their water cut off and their business licenses yanked. If joe taxpayer has to pay their property taxes, they can pay theirs. If they don't like the rates they can pack up and move, just like anyone else.
- If people demanded that every municipal facility/service be a money maker, there isn't a single person on Opinion 250 who would still be living here because you would have all left for the cities that do provide services for their citizens. If you don't agree, think about it for more than 15 seconds and reconsider your answer. If you still don't agree, then move to a city that better suits your views. Good luck finding one though . . .
- I've still never met a single person who raved about visiting a town or area based on the condition of their roads. Strange indeed. Truth be told, I've never met a single person who cursed a town they visited based solely on the condition of their roads. My conclusion is that at the end of the day, the condition of roads is probably way down on the priority list of most people when it comes to what makes a city or town desireable.

Have a great weekend folks!

Speed traps are set up to generate revenue, nothing more and nothing less.

They are often set up in areas where the posted speed limit is too slow for the general flow of traffic. They set up in areas where people typically travel faster than the posted speed limit, hence the revenue generation. It's got nothing to do with safety.

No, before anyone guesses, I have not been caught speeding... I haven't had a speeding ticket in years.

Thanks, MrPG.
It's nice to know there are other people living in the real world.

Actually, I live on one of those streets where I wish the cops would set up a speed trap! It is supposed to be 50 kmph, but folks come whipping down this road like there is no tomorrow. It makes getting out of our driveway a real game of Russian roulette!
There is also an issue with it being a rather curvy road, so just when you think you're safe to move on to the road, some idiot comes screaming around the corner..... The situation is even more "interesting"in the winter when all the snow is piled up......

"Speed traps are set up to generate revenue, nothing more and nothing less"

So what? I put speeding tickets in the same category as tobacco, alcohol and gambling. It's a voluntary contribution to government coffers and nothing more. If you choose not to make that contribution, don't do it. Simple. It doesn't get more "real world" than that, LOL.

Maybe the RCMP are trying to send a message to drivers - slow down?

NMG - 100% agree.

Trudy's post sort of illustrates the concept. Her road probably doesn't have enough traffic to generate enough revenue.
(Oh sorry. I should have said "Generate enough safety")

Perhaps they should use a better method, or a better mixture to fix the roads in the area.

They must have changed something with the way things are done, because I dont recall the roads always being this bad.

Maybe they just do less work and thats to blame, but I would like to know what quality of ashpalt is used.

As soon as you cross the Alberta border the pavement changes color. And their roads seem to be in a bit better shape. Is there something to this... I dont know...

"So what? I put speeding tickets in the same category as tobacco, alcohol and gambling. "

If that's your logic, then I can see why you clearly don't get it.

Do we have any good campgrounds in Prince George?

And I do not mean an RV park where everyone parks side by side in a big field.

Some friends wanted to come and stay close to town, but all I could think of was Purden or Bear Lake. They are certainly nice enough campgrounds, but a bit far for those wishing to visit the city each day.

It would be nice to have a great campground overlooking the river somewhere close to town.

"Maybe the RCMP are trying to send a message to drivers - slow down?"

Nope. More like, "Open up your wallet sucker."

the one at Salmon Valley used to be pretty nice...right on the river side.

KOA, west across from Bon voyage
a couple up the hart

Isn't that KOA looooong gone????

"If that's your logic, then I can see why you clearly don't get it"

Please explain how my logic is flawed on that one. I'd love to hear your argument, LOL. Does it involve fairies that sneak into your car and override your brake and gas pedal while you aren't looking?

Do you guys seriously NOT drive with the traffic flow???? You never find yourself doing 60 at the bottom of the hill coming from Pine Centre or driving on Ospika? 70 at the top of Peden Hill???

Those are examples of "traps" and they are unethical, revenue generating BS.

can you say "entrapment"

paving crew, nice job on the south end of ospika and massey.well done.

I personally am offended when I see tourists show up spouting about how they are traveling around enjoying the scenery and what nature has to offer, all the while they are in a 40 foot motor home with washer/dryer, tv, shower, etc. WTF are they even bothering to leave home?

Loki these people are touring and quite a few live in these rigs or spend months at a time in them. I do both, tour in a rig and backpack in the backcountry for long periods of time.

Camp grounds: What about South Park and Sintich, just outside the city limits, going South? The Roblyn Motel on the Hart has a campground, and there is one up close to Kelly Road School, along the hwy.
I think the best place around for a campground would be along the Nechako or Fraser, at the confluence. Except for when the trs cloud from the mills travels along the river.
metalman.

"can you say entrapment"

Entrapment? Are you seriously suggesting that the cops are tricking people to go over the posted speed limit with some elaborate scheme and then busting them for doing it? You guys are a riot, LOL!

I guess it comes down to the fact that it's always easier to blame someone else than to admit you were in the wrong.

people seem to have a big problem accepting the fact thtat speeding is against the law. Why waste your time trying to convince yourself that the cops are being dicks? They are catching you breaking the law. They are punishing you for speeding. If they set up shop where the speeders are it makes more sense than setting up where there is no problem. Make no mistake, rationalizations aside, the speed limit is the speed limit. There is always some joker who thinks he knows what the limit should be, no matter how fast the posted limit is. They think that until they hit someone because they had insufficient reaction time.
I speed, you speed, we all speed. I am not holier than thou, i just take my licks when i get a ticket, without yelling at the cop or complaining about a 'cash grab' later on. This is almost as sad as the big debate that followed photo radar. People getting righteous, defending their right to break the law. The real objection was that they were actually going to get caught.

How many speeding tickets do Police Officers get. Even when they are off duty. Or do they not speed. Years ago we had a Mayor **Carrie Jane Grey** who would on occasion arrest the police for speeding and other infractions, treating them the same as normal citizens. Seems those days are long gone.

If it was only about enforcing the law, then a lot more Police, and others in this City would be charged with speeding, impaired driving, etc;

Someone once said if you want to get rid of impaired driving charges, all you have to do is make everone in the City a deputy police officer.

The supporters of the PAC say that this building will attract World Class Entertainment to Prince George. Can someone give me some names of some World Class shows etc; that would come to town to play in a performing arts centre that holds 800 people. Highly bloody unlikely.
This is just another line of tripe that they are throwing out there for the edification of those who do not think to clearly.