Hate to say it, but the Zalm has the right idea. If there's any chance of stopping it, this is the way to go. The online petitions are nothing more than political posturing.

Go for it!
I am no fan of Bill Vanderzalm, but given some of the crap taking place with the Campbell government,something has to be done to slap them back into line.
Personally I believe the problem with the B.C.Liberals is in fact Gordon Campbell himself and his penchant for micro-managing everything!
This government is not only seen as totally dishonest,they have also forgotten how to listen and just who elected them!
Whether they like it or not,they WILL eventually have to answer for that!
That time may very well be sooner than they think!

Does anyone have an inside look at where this HST decision actually came from? Was it Campbell by himself? Did he have as small working group that looked at what might have been overtured from the Feds?

Was it Hansen? Did he get his post because it was his baby?

Come on, someone spill the beans!

And whose bright idea was it to keep it quiet during the election? What was the scenario? Big upset from the peanut gallery, but in 3 years everyting will be okay ready for new candy to be thrown at the crowd gathered to watch the election parade starting to form?

What an old washout. If we are going door to door across the Province, let's do it right.
Let's sign a petition saying we don't want ANY taxes.

Much as I would love to see Mr Vanderzalm get this going, I really fear that it will be to no avail...Campbell has a majority government and in my opinion has shown that he will do pretty much whatever he wishes with little if any regard to the average joe on the street.
otherwise how would he have managed to get this tax law passed so quickly and implimented to easily.
Amazing that big business loves it so much...must really be to their benefit...

Thereasonableman.

Asking for no taxes wouldnt be reasonable.

Lets get with the program. What difference does it make if the petition is headed up by Vanderzalm, or Carole James. The thing is, someone is doing something.

Question:: What are you doing besides making less than stellar statements.

Twice in the next week our three PG reps will be making public appearances, opening bridges. How many of you will be there voicing your discontent?

Only curious, not trying to start a debate

OMG Campell has already signed a MOU with the Federal government and has no intentions of backing off, hello more taxes.

There's not a whole lot of advantage to big business in the HST unless they're making new capital investment. The BC Sales tax already exempts many items used in the ongoing maintenance of existing plant.

If the big business is 'export' oriented, the HST shifts the provincial tax on capital equipmenmt that would now be paid ultimately by the foreign buyers of our products as a component of the price of those products, back onto the backs of British Columbians themselves.

Surely we are not so muddle-headed in our never ending quest to be 'number one' in global competitiveness, that we're going to bite our nose to spite our face this way?

Gus wrote:-"Does anyone have an inside look at where this HST decision actually came from? Was it Campbell by himself? Did he have as small working group that looked at what might have been overtured from the Feds?

Was it Hansen? Did he get his post because it was his baby?

Come on, someone spill the beans!"
----------------------------------------
I doubt very much whether it was an idea hatched by either Campbell or Hansen. The former has never had an original thought in his life, and is little more than a 'global groupie' who latches onto whatever seems to be going around at the time. And Hansen is simply his boss's hatchet man and a complete lackey.

My suspicion is it has to do with the wishes of "big finance" rather than those of "big business", though nowadays, with all the losses that the latter is racking up, we might say the former is very much in command of most, if not all, of the latter. And of 'government', too.

I believe it is only one of many more attempts that are going to follow to try to force upon us the fallacy of a "balanced budget". Something which would be highly desirable if we had proper Provincial and National accounting, but an utter disaster under the current financial set-up.

Whatever your politics, whether as personages you like, or hate, or are indifferent to any of the past and present BC politicians who have come out against this HST, these people are all doing us a great service in speaking out. Lets all do our bit, and sign their Petitions and push for a vote on this issue. We CAN stop this if we take action. But time is short.

"Question:: What are you doing besides making less than stellar statements."

Like most others, I'm choking it down hard, paying taxes with both hands, and not fooling myself at all that a glee club petition carries any weight whatsoever with this government.

And you ?

Palopu, here is a reasonable question for you.

If the HST did not go through, what brand of tax would you prefer that they collect the expected revenue through ?

Or have you also fooled yourself that it will just "go away" based on your sign-up sheet ?

Maybe the difference between you and me is that I know when I'm wasting my time. If that's being unreasonable, then that's the label I will wear right under the one that says I don't live in dreamland where people can influence the government's every agenda by angrily signing their name on a piece of paper.

Or reasonableman, it could be that you only stand up for things anonomously and your afraid to sign the petition.

I hardly think the petition will hamper the NO HST cause.

It is very easy to go thru life and stand for nothing.

"I don't live in a dreamland where people can influence the government's every agenda by angrily signing their name on a piece of paper"...
***********
Can you imagine what this government would do to the people of B.C. if nobody pushed back?
Protest is all we have,and if the Campbell government had it's way,we wouldn't have that either!
Vanoc's move to limit protest during the Olympics(with government support)pretty much proves that!

Absolutely right, Andy. Without the protest of a small group of people in 1215 the Magna Carta which limited the the power of a King to do whatever he pleased, and established the basis of the rights and freedoms we all continue to enjoy today, though not without OUR eternal vigilence that they be filched away from us by the likes of Gordon Campbell, would never have come about.

Those people then could've taken the same defeatist attitude that several posting here have taken. That no matter what we do, or say, or sign, it's not going to make a bit of difference ~ the King has a "divine right" to rule us. That the HST is a done deal, just because our modern day BC equivalent of King John decrees it.

With such an attitude as that, it's no wonder one old vet, who'd slogged all through Europe with the Canadian Army in World War Two remarked to me once at a Rememberance Day ceremony that the way things have turned out if he had life to live over again he'd have just stayed home.

That we'd beat Hitler and Nazi Germany, but the type of totalitarian regime he represented was being imposed on us nevertheless, by a "fifth column" steathily doing its dirty work, and supreme in its confidence it would succeed, virtually unopposed.

Our lethargy allows that to happen. That's what was so sickening to that old vet. The lethargy of the same people who make a great fuss about the sacrifices of the "fallen" every November 11, but have "broken faith" with them long ago, and won't even stand up and DEMAND RESULTS from those who are supposed to be our elected SERVANTS, not our dictating MASTERS, or the front for they who are.

Well said socredible!

A very moving speech, and a very romantic idea that you could sit on your fat pratt at your computer desk and have the government obey your every whim by signing a piece of paper or sending off an email.

Wow, now that's convenience !

I think it speaks volumes as to the laziness and complacency of today's society, and demonstrates firsthand exactly WHY the government of today walks all over us and rams everything down our throats.

If we had 30,000 REAL PEOPLE standing in front of the Premier's office, THAT would be known as a protest, and it might actually raise some eyebrows. More people like me would probably participate in something like that, that had any chance of making a difference.

30,000 names on a sheet of paper (petitions are notoriously known for being embellished, and inaccurate) is the equivalent of junk mail, and if you think that makes the Premier shake in his booties, you are incredibly, and sadly, naive.

D'ya get it yet ?

PS:

You guys don't REALLY think that Campbell is going to throw away all that Federal money ($1.5 B) just because you got mad and put your name on a list of -
"Mad People That Are So Mad, They Intend To Do Nothing More Than Add Their Name To A List Of Mad People"
do you ?

"It is very easy to go thru life and stand for nothing."

I guess you'd know.


I've stared death in the face, unarmed, and not backed down.

Exactly, reasonableman. Exactly. People are indeed really naive.

Give it time, o reasonableone, the petitions are just the FIRST step. We are, after all, "reasonable " people too. What comes next if we are not listened to may may be very well more than 30,000 people protesting "at the Premier's door". We hope you and Mr PG will be amongst us.

I used to think that Bill Van Der Zalm understood some finance and Economics, but now it is very very clear that he has NOT taken professional advice on the matter.
Bill, TAKE SOME PROFESSIONAL EXPERT ADVICE to help you understand the workings and effects of HST/"Value Added Tax" as compared to harmful PST/"Sales and Use Tax"
The existing PST is EXTREMELY HARMFUL TO BC and should have been replaced many many many years ago,

Unfotunately politians at both extremes of the political spectrum have lacked the courage to get rid of the PST through the 80s,90s and finally now at the end of the 2000's we are finally going to have the problem solved so we can have future prosperity.
I have the same advice for all readers: "Seek paid Professional independent Expert advice".
GO AWAY PST!

I used to think that Bill Van Der Zalm understood some finance and Economics, but now it is very very clear that he has NOT taken professional advice on the matter.
Bill, TAKE SOME PROFESSIONAL EXPERT ADVICE to help you understand the workings and effects of HST/"Value Added Tax" as compared to harmful PST/"Sales and Use Tax"
The existing PST is EXTREMELY HARMFUL TO BC and should have been replaced many many many years ago,

Unfotunately politians at both extremes of the political spectrum have lacked the courage to get rid of the PST through the 80s,90s and finally now at the end of the 2000's we are finally going to have the problem solved so we can have future prosperity.
I have the same advice for all readers: "Seek paid Professional independent Expert advice".
GO AWAY PST!

"Exactly, reasonableman. Exactly. People are indeed really naive."

Good point, I stand corrected.

I guess I just explained why we're signing an online petition. I'll have to change my nickname....

JoeBC, the only thing I see from a consumer's standpoint, is that we will be paying a consistent level of high tax on absolutely anything you can think of that involves spending money.

Your "after tax dollar" (~$0.64), therefore, is subject, in almost every conceivable scenario, to a further xx% tax once again. I can't feel like this is good for me.

Straighten me out.

I think the point about a petition being basically worthless is valid, but I also believe that it is a good place to start. It could be a spark to ignite a blaze under the premier's wingtip dancing shoes. The blaze in this case would be "30,000 people at the premier's door. That would get his attention for sure, not sure if he would reverse what is already in motion, but it would at least serve notice that we are not going to take this lying down.
metalman.

"HST with Cheese"

is the youtube video that everybody is talking about. Go to youtube, and search 'HST with Cheese' to see it.

*Coarse Language.

Firstly. Why is it that some people think that if the Government has to raise taxes to cover its cost, then it is ok to do so. One of the reasons they are over budget is because of guess what??? Their bloody budgets. They have budgets for everything, and they increase them every year. The Highways department is spending money like its going out of style, mainly on projects that we dont need, or at least dont need to-day.

The Campbell Government is out of control. We have left them running the ship for to long, and they are running it into an iceburg. These guys are incompetant. They appoint their buddies to various positions on other entities like BC Ferries, BCTC, Airport Authoritys, BC Hydro, etc; etc; etc;. We pay for all this BS.

At this point in time all we can do is write a letter to Campbell, Hansen, and our local MLA's and express our disagreement with this tax, and let them know that if they proceed with it they will not get out vote in the next election. Anyone who thinks this will not have an effect, has little or no knowledge of how Politics works.

**The first order of business for a political party after it has won an election, is to start working on a program to get re-elected. This is the number one prime concern***

It has been suggested that political parties information reveal that for every letter they receive from a voter on a specific subject, 200 other people feel the same way but didnt bother to write. You can rest assured that they pay attention to every letter that is written, or email received.

Some time ago when we raised hell about the pay increases for MLA's they backed off, however they brought it back in at a later date. The point is they would never have backed off if people hadnt raised hell.

Vanderzalm has the right idea, and hopefully we can force this issue to a referendum, once people get a chance to vote on it, it will die the death that it deserves.

If Governments want more money, then they had better learn how to decrease costs. Back off the bullshit programs, downsize to a reasonalbe level,and reduce salaries, and pension contributions.

The Mulrooney Conservatives had their asses kicked so far out of Politics, that it took them 20 years to find their way back. The same thing can happen to the Liberals. If they insist on taxing us to the hilt, then they can kiss themselves goodbye.

It wouldnt be the first time the Liberals were kicked out of BC Politics. It happened once before in the early 1900's, at that time it was because they were corrupt.