while they are withholding 2/3 of the tax bill, withhold 2/3 of city services. Shut off the water and sewer, see how long it takes for the stink to go away.

Have you heard the one about all the organs fighting to be declared boss? Long story short, when the rectum shut down, all the other organs capitulated and declared the "rear end" the boss.

Shut off the water and sewer is all that is needed. They (Celgar) will not want to completely shut down so in order to clear the "rear end" they will have to pay their tax bill. They could then serve notice to have their rate changed in future years without this antagonistic method they are employing now.

Holding anyone under threat is called blackmail. That is what these mills are doing. They must finally getting worried now that they are no longer the preeminent industry in this province. The big three industries that have sustained and built this province are no longer the primary industries. They have all been far surpassed by a newer underground industry that is not subject to taxation or any controls.

Loki you do not know what goes on in a pulp mill. They have their own water treatment plant and effluint ponds. They bring in bottled water for the employees to drink so shutting down water and sewer is not the way to go. Better to sit down and talk to them. You have to remember that most of those people that work there
own homes and pay taxes plus the money spent by them supports quite a few bussnesses so smell the roses and learn to get along with those bussnesses that actully made this city.

I agree with Loki on this one. Cut off all services and force them to cease their operations. Having an income after paying taxes is still better than having no income or a loss. See how the shareholders like that . . .

This is simply another ploy that large corporations are trying to use to shift their tax burden onto the average person. What's next, the line that they'll use the tax savings to increase the wages for their workers? Maybe the savings will allow them to become more competitive so that they can hire more workers? Call me cynical, but I don't believe a single thing that comes out of their PR department.

We're well on our way down a path where any amount of tax will be "too much" for a big corporation. It wasn't like this 10 or even 15 years ago, let alone decades ago when the concept of "corporate responsibility" meant something. That concept is all but dead and for the most part, the general public hasn't a clue as to what is being swept out from under their feet. It's a complete shifting of the tax burden, it's relaxed or completely non enforced environmental regulations, it's big business dictating public policy, etc.

I really hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it's getting to the point where there isn't even a conspiracy anymore. What's happening is in plain view for everyone to see.

Crazy stuff.

Lets see here....If I don't pay my taxes they take away my home.

Why not just add another few percent to the Horse Shit Tax so the ordinary Joe can pay big business's tax? Works for me.

I think that someone has to take these Citys to the wall to stop them from taxing the hell out of everybody. It would be nice if some of the fat asses in this City would get off their collective butts and protest some of these tax increases.

I say to Industry. Go for it, take them to the wall, because if you dont they will tax you to death.

Prince George takes in huge amounts of money in taxes every year, and pisses it against the wall, year after year. Citizens of this town dont take enough interest in whats going on around them to make a legitimate argument for or against these taxes.

Politicians take advantage of voter apathy and tax us to the hilt. At least Industry has the wherewithal to take these dogs to the pound. Someone has to stop them.

NMG:-"Having an income after paying taxes is still better than having no income or a loss. See how the shareholders like that . . ."
------------------------------------------
They already have no income to distribute to the shareholders. Who, no doubt, don't like that at all. But that's one of the risks of being a shareholder. The larger problem is that these firms cannot access Bank credit unless they are sufficiently profitable to continue to service their loans. Without that, they're effectively out of business, and their shareholders' equity, on which they're already not earning anything, becomes worthless.
-----------------------------------------

NMG:-"This is simply another ploy that large corporations are trying to use to shift their tax burden onto the average person."
----------------------------------------
It is already on the backs of the "average person". Property taxes are a "cost" of doing business, and the first rule of business is that ALL "costs" be included in,and recovered from,"price". Who else but the "average person", in the final analysis, is there to PAY the "price"?

"They already have no income to distribute to the shareholders"

Perhaps not presently, but these are still going concerns. They eventually will have income that will be distributed to shareholders and I'm sure that the folks in the boardrooms are smart enough to realize that if they can pressure municipalites into reducing taxes in the short-term, that the likelyhood of having them increased in the future is very small. This has an obvious future benefit to their future cash flows and earnings.

"It is already on the backs of the "average person". Property taxes are a "cost" of doing business, and the first rule of business is that ALL "costs" be included in,and recovered from,"price". Who else but the "average person", in the final analysis, is there to PAY the price"

Somewhat correct, but not entirely. Their property taxes are actually on the back of their customer base, which could number into the tens of millions for a large corporation, making the per person contribution to cover off those expenses immaterial. If they forgo paying those property taxes to the municipality they operate in, then it's up to the people in the specific community they reside in to pick up the slack directly. This may only be thousands of people or tens of thousands, so obviously the per person "hit" is much greater.

Palopu's diatribe is entertaining, however, when the rubber hits the road, without business taxes the city wouldn't be able to provide the essential services that we citizens require and expect and that's not to say that there are areas we can improve on when it comes to spending. I can only imagine the tone of posts on Opinion 250 if rates for home owners had to be raised to the point necessary to offset the lack of business taxes. You think people complain now about high taxes? LOL.

Suspending fire protection to these dead-beat outfits would be a good start. Let their access roads fill with snow this winter too.
If payment is not made in a reasonable time, then seizure of assets and an auction is in order, just like it is for the homeowner who can't pay taxes.

downnotout: So much wrong with your entire position. Spoken like true sheeple.
I do not know exactly what goes on in a mill? How do you know what I know? Their water treatment and effluent is normally not for sewage, but for their industrial effluent before being reintroduced into the hydrosphere. If they are bringing in bottles water for human consumption then there is a problem with the local water source or they don't care about the environment. Are you telling me that a 50 year old industrial complex in an area of Southern BC that has been settled for over a hundred years doesn't use taps or have flush toilets?
You must remember that the taxes paid by the employees is only a portion of the less than 60% of Castlegars tax revenues. To make an assumption that less than half the town is directly employed by Celgar, that means that the employees contribute only less than 30% of tax revenues. Yes, if Celgar were to shut its doors, then Castlegar would be deserted by the current residents for employment in other areas. If the operation is in such dire straights that they must nit pic legitimate and long standing taxation schema, maybe they should idle the mill for a while. A neat thing about employees, they are portable and about a loyal as any company.

Loki. None of the Pulp Mills in Prince George are on the Citys Water or Sewer System. Nor are they on the Garbage System. Pulp Mill Road is in the City up to the Turn off at Husky Oil and Intercon Mill, after that it is all private property.

No one denies that the City needs taxes for essential services. That is a given.

The problem is the amount of money that is spent on non essential services. This is where we need to reduce costs.

We have City Managers coming out our ying yang. We have 750 City Employess, 122 Police Officers, and God knows how many fireman. We need to conrol the cost of these people. The City just hired a new communication person, that will cost us an additonal $100,000.00 per year with benefits.

We spend almost a third of our budget on recreation facilities.

We pay approx 12% of our budget on servicing our debt.

Its rather strange that the people who are supposed to look at these costs, and keep the City on its toes, the Councillors, are paid a measly $22000.00 per year. In other words they are the lowest paid Employees at the City. Is it any wonder that they do not have the time or inclination to stay on top of the ;problems. Would you??

If we only had to pay for essential services, we could reduce our taxes by 25%. Thats not the problem. Matching grants from other levels of Government, building huge useless structures like a $46 Million Police Station, rather than a reno. Building a Performing Arts Centre for $50 Million that is not needed. Building a new bridge across the Nechako for $15 Million when a $750,000.00 repair job would suffice. Upgrading River Road for no apparent reason at a cost of $8 Million $4Million cost to the City. Putting in the road behind the Airport to service a private industrial park at a cost of $8 Million to the City, plus $14 Million to other levels of Government.

That is where the waste is, and that is where the savings can be found, and essential services need not be touched.

Industry doesn't like taxes either. I don't wanna pay more than I have to either. A tax revolution in this country yet? Sure hope we get more people interested and complaining/demonstrating about not paying excessive taxes than there is voter turnout. But I guess it all depends on what the taxpayer decides they can live without. After all these years of being brainwashed by getting entitlements.