hmmmmm........
a couple of ways of looking at that.
one is: two can play the same game, and sometimes it does teach a lesson, sometimes it can look childish - If someone hits me I will hit back.
or: two wrongs don't make a right. So joining them at the same game doesn't prove much thought it might teach a lesson. Perhaps better to rise above that kind of behavior. It doesn't do anything to win any sympathy for the Natives and their cause. It just increases public anger. Personally, there are so many native protests at every little thing (including sweaters for the olympics) that I get very irritated by them and so I just ignore them.
Perhaps if the just used informational roadblocks they would be much more accepted and they would still get their point across.

Blockading the blockaders seems to work quite well. But the thing that works the best is to just leave them alone. The primary purpose of a blockade is to gain attention especially through the media. If you don't give a blockade any attention then there is no point for the blockaders to be out there.

Leave the blockade alone?
Sure, makes sense, if you don't have to get past them to go to work. Just go to work some other day? Your company and it's customers will understand, sure. One thing is quite probable, the blockaders don't have a job. That is why they the time to disrupt the rest of us who are trying to earn a living. Their confrontational tactics do little towards eliciting sympathy from the working class. Sympathy for the plight of the downtrodden blockaders tends to come from urban dwellers who have steady work in the city, and are never directly affected by bush road politics.
metalman.

Perhaps the best thing to do would be to settle these land claims and then treat the "First Nations" exactly like nations. They would no longer receive support and finance from Canadians and would need to cross a border to enter.

Haven't the First Nations claimed 110% of the province of BC, taking into account overlapping claims? The practice of blockading should be illegal.

Native groups cry foul on every little issue lately. I just tend to ignore them. Sometimes it seems they're like petulant children whining until they get their way.

Metalman is quite correct, the unemployment rate on reserves is very high. It is quite scandalous really, and other people would never put up with it. There would be daily editorials and protests, and the government would likely fall for their incompetence.

Ruez suggestion is interesting, but I suspect he really does not want everyone driving on the highway that goes through the reserve to get to Fort St. James to be stopped twice at border crossings, show their passports, possibly be searched by customs agenta and pay import duties on whatever they have in their vehicle.

Just solve the problems and settle the land claims.

Canada and the USA hasve also claimed more than 100% of the land that exists in North America. Both claimed the Alaska panhandle and both claimed Point Roberts. How are Canada and the USA any different from First Nations then?

Is it up to the government to make sure everybody has a job? Should they provide a wake-up call service as well to make sure everybody gets to work on time? Get real.

Haven't taxpayers paid billions towards the lands claim settlement process? What has it gotten us exactly? To 'settle' land claims as has been suggested would cost billions more. Who is expected to pay that?

Aboriginal land claims will never be settled as long as the lawyers are in charge. The lawyers have fostered a culture of greed, masked in caring concern for the plight of the unfortunate red man.
I personally harbour no predjudice against any race, colour, or creed, and never have I denied that the native Indians were given the shaft IN THE PAST. This is NOW, and all Canadians need to move forward, put the past where it belongs. The politicians want everyone to like them and will never have the intestinal fortitude to actually solve the them vs. us issue.
All the talk about sovereign nations is doing nothing but dividing us all yet again. Ban lawyers and government from the process and we might just get somewhere.
metalman.

"Is it up to the government to make sure everybody has a job? Should they provide a wake-up call service as well to make sure everybody gets to work on time? Get real."

Without jobs, no income tax for government to collect. If there are unemployed, there is a population that is not contributing to the coffers. There is LESS money for government to spend.

True, but it is not the government's fault if you choose not to get educated or take adequate training to get you that elusive job. Some people seem to think that the world owes them a living. It does not.

I have had to pay bribe money in order to get through half assed blockades on forest roads in the north. I have also been interrogated by various natives about what i was doing on 'their land' (i was on CROWN land). One should not take blockades lightly. there ought to be a robust effort to legally shut down each and every one of them as fast as possible. In my opinion, blockades as a form of peaceful protest are a stretch. They interfere with other peoples legal rights to travel and to earn a living.

"Native groups cry foul on every little issue lately. I just tend to ignore them. Sometimes it seems they're like petulant children whining until they get their way."

Much like the province of Quebec has been doing for years. Perhaps if we were to stop maintaining the roads to and through the reserves some sanity may return to the whole issue of blockades. I'm getting a little tired of seeing signs that read "whitey keep out"

Regarding ammonra's post, I was not aware that either Canada or the US had any territorial claims on Mexico. Which makes up a fairly large chunk of North America, at least it did when I was in geography class back in the 70's.

Blockades work by the express or implicit threat of force. The fuzzy brain judges are afraid to come down hard on what is in truth fascism for fear of escalating the violence.

Aboriginal land claims are moving further and further from settlement because:
1. the Bands' lawyers and leaders are promising the Band members things that can never be.
2. the courts are granting Bands rights (consultation and accommodation) which the courts do not understand and refuse to particularize and which are being used to blackmail anyone who wants to invest money in rural BC.

As an over taxed taxpayer, anyone know how to blockade the road to ruinous taxation? Even a hint would help.

"As an over taxed taxpayer, anyone know how to blockade the road to ruinous taxation? Even a hint would help."

Yup! An organized mass refusal to pay a dime on ANY tax.

I find this all very disturbing. People complaining about and sympathizing with a Minister and government that refuses to address Aboriginal rights and title that are repeatedly proven in the courts.

Yes, we are a group and people with a cause and stop fooling yourself when you say you are not racist for not recognizing the above. We are people with special issues, yes that is right, special. Just listen to CBC and every group that complains act like they, their cause, children and their staple incident are the most important thing in the world. Any of you making this a race issue should think about why (jobs, taxes, education, cutting off roads - harsh!).

We are living in the today and NOW and need issues addressed. Just ignoring it will not help.

I think the school system is in part to blame, teach all us Canadians about European ways, history and not true Canadians. Treaties have been settled across Canada and USA - but not BC , so it is ridiculous thinking that 70% of North America will be claimed.

When treaties are settled there will not be new borders to cross. In fact, that is when FN have begun to hang the Canadian flags. FN will receive funding, just like your communities do following treaty and start paying taxes.

Mr. PG - blockading is illegal.

Hopefully FN interests will be addressed sometime this century and tenures holders will be able to carry out their rights and obligations out on Crown lands and treaty lands.

I can't handle watching TV and see how people are trying to raise money for every other 3rd world country while I see so many here so utterly disrespectful to the poverty in this province.

I find it really funny when people think they are being clever by stating that First Nations land claims equal 110% of the province. Do they not realize that this province was created long after First Nations territories were created? Or that one of BC's predecessor's the colony of New Caledonia covered an area that was almost as large as modern day BC, Washington, and Oregon?

Some food for thought.

To Flash MacTavish: I believe that both Mexico and the US claimed territory north of the Rio Grande river, and actually fought a war over it, so, yes, both the US and Mexico were4 invoilved in claiming more than 100% of North Americs.

Thats not food howard, it's tripe. The old saw about 110 percent is an illustration that currently all public land falls under some land claim. As i said it is an old one, and may no longer be true. It is true, however that some claims overlap each other. Hence the problems with the pipeline up north.
Joan, i am tired of being called a racist whenever i speak up about unfair situations. As you yourself noted, blockades are illegal, with or without an excuse. That is the point most posts are trying to make: sauce for the goose. The anger you are reading here has nothing to do with your race, it is the politics of the bands who seem uninterested in being part of the country. That may be their right as 'first nations' but it doesnt mean we all have to like it, thats our right.
Poverty is bad, its true.For my part i get tired of hearing people about the terrible poverty in canada (regardless of race) when there are people all over the world who are in much worse shape. I say treat all people according to need, regardless of race and nationality. I think native communities could have to wait by that standard.
Finally i AM a Canadian, as much a Canadian as anyone alive in this country. I was born here, just as I assume you were. My ancestors immigrated here, just as science says yours did. Accordingly, my european history, and the european role in creating the modern entity that IS this nation (whether you want to hang the flag or not) IS my true canadian history.
There, i disagreed, call me a racist if you like, but i think most folk already know where the racism in this issue lies. It just seems hard for people to say it these days.

Metalman covers it best IMO for this debate.... I concur, but would add that in the end we should all be equally Canadian, and I don't think FN should have taxation authority over resources or any other authority beyond that of a municipality. I do believe however that FN should be granted the same government services as any other municipality, which they currently do not have... but this is all incumbent upon natives actually being able to govern themselves adequately, and I don't see that happening when the band system is a 3rd world system of collectivization that would see them all starve to death if it wasn't for outside help. FN people need to have individual rights within the band to most importantly ownership rights of their own home and property.

I would like to see first the band system reformed to allow for individual ownership of home and property... then and only then could we talk settlement issues for the band as a whole for historical grievances of rights. They have to bring themselves to becoming an equal before we can seriously address their concerns… and the FN need to understand that this has nothing to do with so called European culture, but rather the universal rights of man... that must be respected by all parties involved in negotiation. I believe that by FN not recognizing this, because of internal politics, they present themselves from a position that the constitution and the people of this country will not accommodate for and nor should we. The band leaders need to check their ego in at the door and negotiate seriously in good faith for the opportunities of their people and not for the hostage negotiations they masquerade with today. Its enough that they will hold their own people hostage, but we as Canadians need to stand up for our rights when they try to also infringe on the general publics rights with their hostage policies (i.e. road blocks) that are a derivative of their own internal policies that are at the heart of why we will never see a 'just' settlement with some of these bands.

I would add that the McCloud Lake band I believe sets an example for the others to follow, and yet they have room for improvement as well, but they are much more modern in their strategic thinking to benefit their people, then are some of the others stuck in their old proven ways of failing.

So lets first give these people what Canadians have historically gave the world... lets give these people rights first from within their own bands, property rights in particular.. Then we can talk about co-ops to utilize their resources for the greater public good of their people and the idea that they be treated like any other town or municipality in the province. From this stand point we would have common values and could better relate and recognize legitimate grievances. It would be a growing process, starting with the individual rights and ending in a commonwealth of self government, but as long as the lawyers and politicians are involved it will be a process that holds the entire province hostage to their personal agendas.

AIMHO

eagleone wrote:

"I do believe however that FN should be granted the same government services as any other municipality, which they currently do not have... but this is all incumbent upon natives actually being able to govern themselves adequately."

And you say this with tongue in cheek I hope, given the situation we are finding right now in this city and given the situation we are finding right now with the H1N1 vaccination panic and fiasco.

We are all humans and as such have the same strengths and weaknesses. There is no reason on earth why First Nations should not be allowed to make the same mistakes as the rest of Canadians make daily.

eagleone wrote: "They have to bring themselves to becoming an equal"

Excuse me...... that is a two way street which you, as a WASP, are much more in control of.

How about this? They are an equal. They have eyes, noses, ears, toes, just as you do. More importantly they have feelings and they have the understanding that it is attitudes such as YOURS that need changing before anything productive can happen!!!!

This is no different than any other negotiation. One comes to the table with respect for each other, otherwise you will be sitting at the table for far too long.

Ever hear of bullying?

As the years go by and the debate continues, the lawyers laugh all the way to the bank.

'ever hear of bullying?' Ever hear of stalling? (on both sides)? Ever hear of bargaining in bad faith (on both sides)? Ever hear of extortion through obstruction? Ever hear of playing the race card?
Most negotiations dont have much to do with respect at the onset. There will be respect when there are real settlements. That applies to BOTH SIDES.
Lets not confuse the issue by slipping in the race issue again gus. No where did eagle suggest that native people were not equal to whites. He was talking about first nation political structures. This is something you understood when you made your comment regarding FN vs local PG govt.

You are right , mrPG. the worst thing is we are paying for both sides of the argument.

Gus, I'm only part WASP... my grandma's side of the family has been in Canada since New France 1600’s when only 6000 Europeans lived in that part of the country. Through that linage I have native in my blood from the Red River Meti, and even today I have cousins that are native, so in no way am I saying they are not equal to me as an individual in regards to rights as an individual.

If you read what I wrote you would see that I am arguing against the band system structure that sees our governments negotiating a hostage negotiation of sorts, and that my friend is simply not right from a moral perspective, and it is not consistent with Canadian values, as well as the historical norm of self determination and property rights that most Canadians see as the bed rock foundation of our society.

Because I do not believe in negotiating with an entity that does not respect the rights of its citizens does not make me a racist, but rather quiet the opposite. A bully would negotiate for self gains and not for the greater good... and that makes a lot of the native chiefs bullies and not me for standing up to that kind of negotiation.

So Gus answer me this one... Hypothetically if the FN did exercise municipal power then how would they allocate taxation if there is no individual ownership within their jurisdictions? I am not saying they don't have a right to make their own mistakes, but rather that it is in their interest to have a proper structure in place that is conducive to self government if they are to have local justice within their own self government and the ability to fill the roles that are required in a self governing entity.

Self government is not something that you can just give to a people, its not that simple... self government has to be learned and it has to have a just structure, or it is not a self government anymore, or worse yet a dictatorship disguised as self government.

Our forefathers got it all wrong when they created the reserve system and it would be an injustice if our generation got it all wrong a second time legitimizing a system ripe for abuse. This is why certain inalienable rights have to be respected if negotiation are to lead to a successful outcome.

Heh, i wqas waiting for someone to call him on the WASP comment. Now THAT was racist.

Cranmacil, how do you explain the Blackfoot Confederacy that stretches through three Canadian provinces and three states? How about the Mohawk territory that overlaps two countries?