Boggles the mind!

Canfor trembles in fear awaiting the arrival of the Idle Fairy at its plant gates!

CN idles their locomotives 24hrs. a day until the tempature rises above a certian set point. I think it is 5c. Pollutes as much in 1 day as a herd of Civics in a lifetime.

Wow I'm actually embarrassed to be from Prince George today.

Thanks Ben! Well said! I agree, what a crazy idea. It won't stop me from idling my truck in the cold winters. I'm not going to freeze my bum off, although, I could use some help with that.

HAHAHAH One of the funniest articles yet. Thanks for that! Personally I have my one idle free campaign going, it involves not sitting at red lights when there are no other cars on the road. No more wasting gas on left hand turns when there is no oncoming traffic just because the advanced green is red!

I no longer burn wood, but I miss it, I am considering sending the couple of grand to put it back in, these people are doing a good job of convincing me its a good idea.

I wonder how much these fairy's are getting paid and what they will do when they need to get a real job, run for mayor? Oh wait, I said a real job.

Well said Ben! OMG is correct.

Let's see how Dan Rogers and his new sidekick Mike Davis spin this stupidity.

Maverick it is legal to make a left hand turn onto a one way against the red if there is no oncoming traffic.

I always new there was fairy dust at city hall.

Hey I am at least making a habit of pulling over to talk on my cell phone now but I sure not going to turn my car off.

WTF is all I think of to say.

I am embarrased to live in the same city as Kathern Lapadat-Janzen and the nine idiots that have nothing better to do than subscribe to this B S. I'll bet that most of these shrubs are transplants from the coast. If you want to make a difference, then why not attack the real source. Pulp mills, refinery, road dust, Oh, and fallout from China.

Sure CN idles its locomotives, it has to. Guess how many transport trucks you'd need on your roads if CN wasn't here?

Mass protest!
We circle city hall with our vehicles,
and we
LET THEM IDLE!!!
That'll learn 'em!
I'm with Maverick, why sit ( idle ) at a stop light, if there is no danger-no opposing traffic, proceed. No harm done, unless one of the Queen's Cowboys catches you in the act. Call it guilty pleasure.
I do it too.
Oh, this latest idiocy from city hall?
It does little to boost civic pride.
metalman.

metalman,

dont forget while your sitting there letting them idle, you must sip on your Tim Hortons and talk on your cell phone, and if you have a pickup, make sure their is a load of firewood in the back.

More city hall smoke and mirrors to try deflect our attention from the major polluters in PG.
The feds have a national registry that industry must report their emissions to. Maybe the air cops should take a peek at the tons and tons of particulate and gaseous compounds being emitted it the PG airshed from major industry.
In todays citizen I see PG is spending beyond their means and piling up ever increasing debt. I don't think the tax payer needed this info to know city hall is out of control.
Why is the city the largest single land owner in downtown PG? If this land is so attractive why has not private enterprise stepped up to the plate?
Mayor Rodger's excuses for the increase in spending are lame at best. What city near the size of PG does not have urban sprawl? Kelowna, Penticton, Vernon, Kamloops, etc, all have population density similar to PG.
The roads are mess and we get a communications manager, idling cop, and air cop.
Mayor Rodgers and his merry band would certainly take first prize on "The Gong Show".

Gee, leave us alone already! Give everybody an electric vehicle if a few minutes of idling represent committing a crime!

How about addressing more important issues like making proper right turn lanes so vehicles can keep going instead of sitting minutes waiting for a traffic light to change?

How about coordinating all the traffic lights on Central Street to make the traffic flow smoothly?

No matter how I drive usually every light turns red just when I get close enough!

Etc, etc.

Seamutt, thanks for the tip. But I made no mention of a one way street. I am talking about making left hand turns if there is no oncoming traffic regardless if my little left hand turn light is red!. One thing I did fail to mention was since I drive a gas guzzling truck, burn wood AND work for our local polluting industry I don't do it for air quality, just simply like to save on fuel! :)

It's called 'traffic control' not 'traffic flow'. You all can not drive reasonably so you must be brought under control by traffic patterns that keep momentum under control, and people get directed to areas that have a finacial interest in slowing you down to possibly stop and spend. Why do you think there never is a good 'by-pass' for traffic to avoid city areas? Built up and congested as soon as the road is done. Must target that traffic, slow it down, and funnel it into the web.

But seriously, let's get on with common sense approaches to making this city better. Fire some of the planning staff and hire people who understand the needs of a northern industrial city like ours. Quit stealing designs from Van. Isld or Okanogan. We allow developments and designs to be built that hinder a cleaner, more cost effective city.
Parking lots for retail areas should be easy in and out, they should not be full of curbs and narrow paths that just make plowing more difficult and dust sweeping more problematic. Keep it simple!
Our new round-a-bout flows well, but it's red brick design mirrors the r-a-b's of residential White Rock. How long are those pretty bricks gonna stay in place with 60ton chip trucks pounding over them all winter with salt, ice, water, frostheaving, etc. Shouldn't that intersection have been a little more industrial considering it's location and use? I suppose our taxes will pave over them next year with no problem.
There should be a traffic hotline that motorists can phone to complain about traffic situations. That agency can they contact the city, highway or maintenace contractor to address the situation. For instance the better timing of lights during different hours to reflect to true traffic flow, not just a predetermined time unchanging all day. The city/highway departments are not very receptive to input from the public and a new hotline with some actual customer service and genuine authority to force changes is needed. The public is not comprised of the total fools that the government leadership relies on, we may just be your saviours with good ideas, and if you listen and act wisely you may just get re-elected.
Please, no more fluffy posts for the fairies to study the problems, pick up a broom and sweep.

dcfluid, in response to your thoughts on
traffic control; consider the U.S. system of Interstate highways, if you will.
For the most part, in my experience, they either bypass the towns and cities, or they plunge straight through, and the urban development gives way. Either way, there is no interupption to traffic 'flow'
There are always opportunities to leave the highway in a controlled fashion if you need to get into a town, and if the town is on both sides of the Interstate, there are underpasses, and again, the flow of traffic on the main highway is not impeded. Thank you.
metalman.

Maverick, if we are going to have this protest, can we have a coffee shack slapped together and sit it on the lawn at city hall? We'll put a wood burning stove in it, and sit around and blow smoke at the councillors, a sort of turn about, you might say. And all the while the pickups are burning fuel.
metalman.

Who sells coal furnaces these days? Price of coal low? Must do research.

Harb: try Furnaceland or Fraser Plumbing and Heating if you are serious.
metalman.

Metalman, I have travelled the U.S. freeways a lot the last few years and yes it moves traffic very fast if it is not overwhelmed with numbers. However we do not as yet have the population or revenue to sustain and meaniful freeway system around here. I'm still waiting the 40 years to see 4 lanes to Cache Creek.:)

We can however do low cost and efective improvements within our city that help reduce the stress on our air fairies far more than this anti-idling b.s. So easy a target for someones pet peeve, but really not a meaniful impact. Just turns the rest of us off who are trying but see anything we do will never be enough. To the huggers humans are a virus that mother earth needs an immunization shot for. (H1E1??)
Lets make my stance clear: I have every light in my well insulated house an energy efficient one, my vehicles are now all modern and low emission, I ride my bike to work twice a week(childcare prevents more), we recycle, avoid uneccessary driving etc,etc,...
This is too much, I'm gonna crack up. I'm hitting the remote start this winter to defrost my -20c truck before driving, and if the fairy steps in my yard to tell me otherwise I'll stuff her up the tailpipe to block emissions. A fink on your neighbour idling program, how tasteless.

NO wood burning stoves on city halls lawn, just a great big ol' PG style Pallet Fire.

Yahoo! I will be there with my fat filled weiners

I'll bring the pallets and some diesel fuel to get 'er burning hot. Shall we sell tickets (may need the cash for our bail)
metalman.

maybe some beer and weed, then throw a couple of old tires on to keeper' burning.

Who's bringing the tunes?

I say stop the wood burning! Sorry guys,but my neighbor is killing me. Even in the summer my house reeks of smoldering wood because of the geographical position of our homes. The smoke swirls down between our houses and mine get 'smoked'. I have spoken with him many times in the past and now we are not speaking at all since I put the City on him. I have asked the city to enforce their bylaw and maybe now they will do it.

As with every rule and law there can be exceptions. How big of a lot do you and your neighbor have?

I have heard other stories similar to yours with the big outdoor stoves. I have no experience with them. I presume that is type your having a problem with because of the summer smoke?

I for one feel that leaving your car idling for no real reason is stupid. It does pollute the air and why add to that just to be a rebel? I think there is something seriously wrong w/ the posts here and i was disappointed in Ben's article. Dropping your kids off at school does not require you to leave your vehicle running...what happens when it's really cold out, do you leave your vehicle running all day while you are at work?...you go into Save on and you leave your car running - shame on you. That is just plain ridiculous. I don't know why CN leaves their locomotives running...is there a reason? If not they should be stopped. Idling laws are needed...if you want to be an idiot and leave your car running...well, fly at er'! It's like "cutting your nose off to spite your face"...Its juvenile.
My opinion.

My new goal in life is to see how many "warnings" I can get for idling my vehicle :)

The KISS principle on idling .....

When you are PARKED. Shut off the engine. You are PARKED, not DRIVING.

----------------------------
When you are STOPPED and in a lane which is potentially or actually shared by other cars, such as a road laneway while stopped at a traffic light, stop sign, yield lane, etc. you are DRIVING, while temporarily not moving due to traffic conditions, the engine stays running so that you can move as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Although I rarely use a window drive up option, I consider that to be a driving lane not a parking lane.

shegrins

I congratulate you on being the 1st to start throwing insults.

Good on the dogooders.

There is a huge diffeance between letting your car idle for 20 or 30 minutes while you go into a story or wait for somebody, there is also a HUGE differance when it starts getting cold.

If you read a bit more you will find that people here are getting pissed at the fact that a do-gooder group is telling them they shouldnt idle more than 10 - 20 seconds. If you think I am going to start and stop my engine 15 times going through Timmies your delusional.

Its very obvious you live in a sheltered world, let me guess, your husband does everything for you? When you car wont start who do you call? You see most of us are the ones who get the calls.

Why does CN leave their locomotives running when they are cold? 2 reasons, you see that little plug in on the front? Nope, they are much to big to run block hearters, 2nd, locomotives are driven by electicity, not deisel, the engine only charges batteries. What happens to batteries when they are cold and not getting a charge?

If there is a sheltered aspect to shegrins life it is the fact that he/she believes that what he/she thinks is smart or dumb or right or wrong ought to arbitrarilly be made law. What follows is scorn for the opinions of people who disagree. Thats pretty much the definition of self righteousness in practice. More than any issue of fuel mileage and wear and tear on the starter, that is what I (and i suspect many others) are reacting to.

From the net: "The simplest ideas are often the best. For instance, when a car is stopped, there’s no need for its engine to be running, so why not turn it off?

Often, the reason is because it’s inconvenient, disruptive and means the radio, sat nav, heater, lights and other controls will also shut down.

Stop-start systems get round this by automatically turning the engine off when they sense it is worthwhile to do so – and, of course, automatically restarting it again.

Crucially, though, the system leaves all the car’s ancillaries undisturbed."

There you have it!

The Air Care Fairy seems to be unaware of the above simple facts. Bosch and others are in the forefront of having developed automatic stop/start systems for vehicles. They have been introduced and are in use on several makes in Europe. They need to be programmed for each vehicle type and engine/transmission combination.

To manually shut off the engine and all associated systems on a vehicle when it is stopped for a few seconds is actually detrimental to the fuel and emission management program in computers which are part of all modern automobiles.

It is a sledge hammer approach when a scientific method is needed to solve all the complicated problems associated with
randomly killing an engine and all the power while it is smoothly running at maximum efficiency and polluting at a minimum.

I will wait until the vehicle of my choice comes factory equipped with a stop/start system that really works.

In the meantime the Air Care Fairy can wait and fume because I won't shut off my engine at a stop sign, a red light or at Tim Hortons drive-through.

I congratulate you on being the 1st to start throwing insults.

Good on the dogooders.

There is a huge diffeance between letting your car idle for 20 or 30 minutes while you go into a story or wait for somebody, there is also a HUGE differance when it starts getting cold.
That is what block heaters are for, you live in the NOrth, your vehicle is NOT going to freeze up and not start because you went into a store for an hour; even if it is -30...be man and suck it up...I do.

If you read a bit more you will find that people here are getting pissed at the fact that a do-gooder group is telling them they shouldnt idle more than 10 - 20 seconds. If you think I am going to start and stop my engine 15 times going through Timmies your delusional.
Funny, I didn't read anywhere that the evil do gooders in this world or town are suggesting such a practice. Perhaps that is your perception?

Its very obvious you live in a sheltered world, let me guess, your husband does everything for you? When you car wont start who do you call? You see most of us are the ones who get the calls.
Hmmmm...what does this even mean? Or more importantly, what does it have to do w/ this discussion? Whether I live a sheltered life or not has nothing to do w/ leaving your vehicle running for long periods of time even when the weather is cold; thus making this air even worse. How do you know if I'm married or even a hetrosexual? Or I could even be male and just wanted to throw people off with my username. This is "mud slinging" and kind of shows me that you KNOW the "do gooders" are correct, you shouldn't just leave your vehicle running. This shows me that you live in the past and chances are pretty good you are also one of those charming type people who throw their garbage out of the car window while driving...trying to make this planet a better place is not bad, bad is not caring the state of this planet...you are "evil doers".

Why does CN leave their locomotives running when they are cold? 2 reasons, you see that little plug in on the front? Nope, they are much to big to run block hearters, 2nd, locomotives are driven by electicity, not deisel, the engine only charges batteries. What happens to batteries when they are cold and not getting a charge?
So they have a legitamate reason for leaving their locomotives running...is your vehicle on a battery? NO, shut it off even if it's cold, man up and suck it up.

shegrins

I labored through your responce, and the only conclusion I can come up with is you have nothing to add. Can I have that minute of my life back?

You dont know how to have a discussion, only how to sling mud.

By the way, if you and your merry band of dogooders dont want people shutting off their engines in the drive through, why did you report that site 8 times and make the comments about shutting engines off?

I understand the girl who built the site and is the newly appointed fairy is very young an naive, she is reasonably smart and will figure out her errors in time, but can you, are you young or reasonably smart?

Now here is the thing, I can sling mud with the best of them, if that is the path you choose, no problem, if you prove that you can have a discussion with it great, I will take you on anytime, and based on your 1st couple of replies it should only take a couple of seconds, if you continue to want to sling, no problem you will be banned from here soon enough.

1. I didn't report anything that some site reported 8 times. I'm not even sure what you are talking about. I too, feel that turning off and on your vehicle in a drive through is ridiculous.
2. I don't have a "merry band of dogooders "
3. I'm not overly young, middle aged, not that that has anything to do w/ this.
4. you didn't even respond intelligently, if you want to sling mud, there was nothing substantial in your response at all...I believe you are the mudslinger.
4. My bottom line is, shut off your engines if you are parked. end of story.

shegrin

you come here and imediatly start calling people idiots, in the real world that gets your mouth slapped, in the internet world that gets you a lack of respect.

hmmmm...I didn't call anyone an idiot...what I did say was idling your vehicle is stupid, very different from calling people idiots. Holy are you ever defensive...and lack of respect? Apparently if someone doesn't agree with your old world way of thinking that is calling someone and idiot...hmmmm...well if the shoe fits...

hmmm - just reading the news... 600 litres of furnace oil dumped in a river in Nova Scotia... A pile of burning lithium batteries in Trail, with the runoff heading for a river... Yup, I better make sure I dont idle for an extra 15 seconds 'cause that will really make people mad!

http://www.heatinn.com/coalman.html

coal boiler - ~$600 per year worth of coal will heat your house, DHW and shop. Railcars full of it moving through PG (pulled by idling locs). A couple 5 gallon pails full of coal per day is all it takes. Smells great and contributes to global warming so winters wont be so cold - its win-win.

Umm yup, you did say that we would be idiots if we 'left our cars running'. No quantitative measure of how long ond in what circumstances. You also said we should be ashamed and that you were disappointed in our views (for being so stupid presumably). It was an inflammatory post, Shegrins. Admit it and then move on to arguments that are to the point.
To that end, i think you made my point already. You have no respect for the opinions of those who do not agree with you. You wish to save the world from our stupidity (make it a better place) and feel that your belief justifies you in calling for legal means to achive your goals.
I dont agree that your opinion should have anything to do with my right to leave my engine running or not. From the look of this forum i would say that (for once) i am in the majority. I would also add that you might have more luck 'doing good' for the world if you tried to convince, rather than chastise.