Kewl. Usually just take 747s for granted. Need to see a pic by our little terminalette!

I live in Pineview and from my living room I can see planes come and go. I found that the 747 was not much louder than a 737. It was 10:46 when I saw it. Makes a 737 look small. Hope we see more of them 767.

Happened to be driving by the airport when it was parked and yeah, it is funny what you take for granted. When you are usually used to seeing the 737's and CRJ's at the PG airport, you see something like that and go "wow that's big", LOL. Of course, you see them all the time in Vancouver, but it's still neat seeing something that big sitting on the runway at our airport. Kinda like when the F-18's stop in PG.

"Seems the folks in Anchorage, where they would normally refuel, had an issue about the planned stop in Prince George "

Two words for the Anchorage folks... boo and hoo.

Remember, the folks in Anchorage are "anchored" to the USA, thus carry a lot more clout than they should.

They do not like "unfair" competition, generally defined as anyone who competes hard enough to take business away from them.

It is obviously unfair competition since the Americans did not prevail. The only way andAmerican will lose is if the competition is "unfair". They always win fair competitions.

Way to go. Look forward for a better tomorrow, don't look back, nothing back there that can be changed.

Hopefully this requirement to stop in the USA is removed. This would bring more cargo planes to Prince George.

I wasn't able to be at the airport this morning so thanks for the posted pics.

In reading the article, im sure that there is some reading between the lines to be done, but it sounds like Southern Air (and others) really tried hard to make this happen. An aircraft, weather passenger or cargo, does not make any money sitting on the ground so the stop in Alaska would have cost Southern Air, buying just enough fuel to get to YXS. (With the reserve, of course.)

Capt. Snyder had good thing to say about the people, runway and even gave tours? Wow.

Pilots talk. I hope their brass listens.

For those who might be interested Southern Air Inc's head office is in Norwolk Conn. and its main base is in Anchorage Alaska.

I suspect if Anchorage had an issue with the fueling in Prince George it probably had to do with their lease in Anchorage.

In any event this is an American Co., fueling in Canada, so I wouldnd knock the Americans. At least they landed here. I beleive that the Aircraft itself is leased to China Southern Air.

Anyone who's been watching the shenanigans with respect to the laughable and so-called "free trade agreement" between Canada, and the US will understand completely how swiftly big-time American protectionism kicks in (and it always does, no matter how they try to hide or "spin" it) when they see Canadians doing any sort of business that they want for themselves, and we Canadians pretty much always wind up the losers.

Just ask anyone employed in the forestry, or cattle industry what I'm on about here, and you'll get your answer to that one pronto !

With Anchorage now attempting to sign up all "their" carriers to five year contracts, or face higher rates, we can only hope that jab alone will send some of them looking our way.

Obviously they've noticed us, and are already sticking their fingers in even the first flight here by a cargo carrier.

Lets hope it means they think they have a reason to be worried, because they know we do actually have a viable and potentially attractive alternative to at least a few of "their" carriers.

palomino

Damn 'merican's, Can't they see their ivory towers starting crack.

sure would be nice if our lumber sales to the Pacific hits 30 percent. sure hope Enbridge builds the line to Kitimat. This will make them Damn 'merican's secound thought about using us as their resource closet.

You might have a point Palomino, however there is always another side to the story.

If Southern Air could fuel up in Anchorage and fly direct to Caracas, which it could, then why did they fly pilots into and out of Prince George and land here is the first place.

Was it because of cheap fuel, or what???

I would not be the least surprised to find out that we actually made a deal with them, and in fact (paid) them to land here, or at the very least gave them a deal on fuel that they could not resist. Or we actually leased the plane for the portion of the flight from Anchorage to Prince George.

In any event there is more to this landing that a normal Tech Stop. We havent got the whole story.

Having their main base in Anchorage, and flying a crew here to take the flight to Caracas seems a little odd to say the least.

I do not know what the reason is that they landed here, but it seems a reasonable purpose woudl be for a few pilots to try it out. You know, kick the tires, and see what there is to offer.

If it meets their expectations, then the company may look at next steps. If not, forget it.

As far as being able to make it from Anchorage to Caracas, that is an extra 2,000 or so klicks, so may not have been able to do it depending on payload and prevailing winds. As it says in the report, they had to land in the USA. SO a coin toss - Anchorage or Miami. If they are going to look seriously at PG as an alternate, they may try to change the agreement.

No more than 20% per year to PG to allow flight condition flexibiliy. That would be an example of a foot in the door if they cannot do it all at once.

Boeing 747-200

Max Range fully loaded statue miles 7,877.
Miles Anchorage to Caracas 5340 Miles.

They could have gone non-stop no problem.

This has all the markings of a PR stunt to show that large body cargo jets can land at Prince George. It also allowed a photo op for the Authority people and the Mayor, and gives the impression the $36 Million was well spent. What kind of a deal was made with Southern Air?? We will probably never know.



We now go into waiting mode to see if anything further develops.

So where do you get your figures from Palopu.

I do not now what kind of plane the 747-200 is or what fully loaded means.

Here is the information I get from the Boeing company's site.

747-200F has a maximum payload of 110 tonnes with a maximum take off weight (MOTW) of just over 377.8 tonnes

Its maximum MOTW range is best defined as a flight from London to New York which is 3,000 nautical miles (nm). The closest it can get going with the prevailing winds is Mumbai, but does not wuite make it. That is a distance of 3,890nm, so maybe 3,500nm is a reasonable interpolation from the range isopleth map shown on the boeing site.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/pf/pf_rc_fgt_london.html

Anchorage to Caracas is 4,650nm. The fully loaded 747-200F no can do.

PG to Caracas is 3,700nm. That seems to be close to the max depending on wind. Remove some payload, and we are there.

Over to you to verify your information. I have verified mine for a 747-200F. On the face of it, it appears to me your 747-200 plane is flying empty, maybe assisted with a helium filled cargo hold.

If it came from Anchorage because it was required to make a US stop before going to Venezuela, I wonder why it landed in Miami after it left Prince George?
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SOO9753/history/20091117/1740Z/CYXS/KMIA

Way to go, Gus ! Glad you verified those so-called "facts" that Palopu spews out so often, and especially for providing addresses where one can look this stuff up for him or herself when in doubt of those claims!!

Palopu, I too await your reply to Gus as to where you're getting those numbers and the so-called "facts" you spout so liberally every time you get the chance, especially if its related to our struggling little airport and its asperations.

I'd also be interested in where you determined that Southern Air's MAIN base is in Anchorage, Alaska. I've checked out their website, and can find no reference there to this claim.

Its time to back up some of your claims to apparently superior knowledge to ours, of all things related to our Prince George airport, as well as the Anchorage airport, and your apparent knowledge of the real truth about all things financial with regards to both airport authorities, their underlying (as you refer to it), "sneaky" politics, back room agendas, etc. etc.

If you expect people to continue to respect your claims, then give us the url tags to verify your stated "facts". A request like that of me, were I spouting what I claimed to be "facts" about something, would be welcomed.

palomino

Sunfire. Good Point.

Gus. If you recall when the flight to Prince George was first announced it was to be a B747 and it was to come from Seoul Korea to Prince George.

As you pointed out the B747-200F does not have the range to fly 4000 statue miles, and because the mileage from Seoul to PG is 4890 one would have to assume (my mistake) that they were using something other than a B747-200F. I therefore assumed it would probably be a B747-200-B that has the same cargo capacity as the 200-F but can fly much further.

Even at this point in time I cannot find any information that the plane in fact was either a B747-200-F, or a B747-200-B

In any event we know that the 747-200-F does not have the ability to fly from PG to Caracas.

If we stick with the 200-F then the obvious question is why did it come to Prince George. Coming through Prince George required it to fly, Sapporo Japan, to Anchorage, to Prince George, to Miami, to Caracas.

It could have just as easily flown Sapporo to Anchorage to St Louis, to Caracas.

The mileage via both routes would be about 8370 Miles, but routing through St. Louis would have eliminated one stop, and saved time.

So back to you. The question is, Why would Southern Air Route through Prince George on a Flight to Caracas that would require one additional stop. Each stop would cost them approx $1500.00 in landing and take off fees, plus lost time, pilot relocation, etc; etc;. Is that fish I smell???

Palomino.

Any facts you require on the Airport Authoritys financial situation is clearly outlined in their 2008 Annual Report. Which is easily accessible on their website. Their operating deficit for 2008 was around $1,115,000.00. And at this point in time, it doesnt look much better for 2009.

If you put Southern Air, Anchorage Alaska in your search engine, you can access Southern Air Wikipedia which clearly states that Southerns main base is Anchorage Alaska.

It only makes sense that it would be there, because Anchorage is the fourth largest Airport in North America, and is the Gateway to Asia. They have over 700 wide body cargo jets going through each week. Being a Wide Body Cargo, aircraft leasing company, where do you think they would locate. Vanderhoof????

Ok palopu - I found the one reference to Anchorage being the main base for Southern Air on Wikipedia, and, even though we all know that wikipedia is a collection of a lot of sometimes unverified information submitted from a huge variety of sources, we'll assume this one is a true fact. That being said, I still find it odd that their website dosen't mention the main base being Anchorage Alaska, instead of Connecticut, but that's not the focus of this thread, so we'll leave it at that.

So - why would a US carrier, apparently based in Anchorage, come to Prince George for a "top up" and a "look see" ?? Well, for one, since their website points out their "affordable" aspect, it might make sense that they are checking to see if they could shave a few bucks off the bottom line on a long-haul from Asia to North or South America, by refueling here instead of there. I'm pretty sure they didn't get to own and run an airline by being clueless as to where their costs are, and where they can possibly trim some of those costs without compromising service or safety. This is just good business practice, and the key to success for every well run business anywhere.

From what I can see, the folks at Southern Air already have a leg up on virtually every other carrier that may one day wind up using Prince George as part of their business plans, (yes - there will be others), and Southern Air has certainly earned a chunk of respect for their management, at least in my eye. (I'll bet there's some of their competitors checking out PG because of them right now too).

As for them locating in Vanderhoof, well, I see the "tongue in cheek" with that remark, and yeah, of course they're in Anchorage right now, (with pretty much everybody else)! Where else could they be for the past 10-20-30 years? We haven't "been here" for anybody until about two months ago, don't forget, and "everybody" had to use Anchorage before we "upstarts" in Prince George showed up with the audacity to think we might have something to offer!

If there's one thing I've learned by being in business for years myself though, and that's, "you snooze -- you lose" !!

Obviously Southern Air knows that real well, and will be around for a long, long time because of it. They've already made a permanent place for themselves in the Prince George history books, and I, for one, wish them every success for it.

palomino

Palomino:

Theres actually another reference to Southern Air in Anchorage if you care to look at Ted Stevens International Anchorage Airport Wikipedia, scrolling down you will see a list of 37 Major Cargo Airlines that are located in Anchorage of which Southern is one.

The other thing you seem to have overlooked in your synopsis, is the fact that if Gus is correct and Southern Air has only B747-200/F Aircraft then they cannot fly direct from

Beijing China. 5070 Miles
Seoul Korea. 4890 Miles
Kong Kong 6180 Miles

to Prince George, and would in fact have to land in Anchorage to refuel. Once they land in Anchorage for refueling then they can access most major Airports in the USA thus eliminating any reason what so ever to land in Prince George. The same thing applies in reverse flying to South East Asia.

Having only 17 Cargo Jets leased and flying all over the world there is very little chance that we will see much of Southern in Prince George.

I still see this as nothing mre than a PR event, pure and simple, and it cost someone some money.

Latest press release from the PG Airport Authority states that a

747-200F aircraft enroute from Shanghai to Caracas Venezuela landed in Prince George for a tech stop.

No mention of Anchorage, or Miami. Wonder why???.

Palopu -- there's been a lot of number slinging around here with regards to the range of a 747, and particularly the 747-200F that visited us recently.

I think it might be prudent to indicate whether you are quoting your numbers in miles, or nautical miles, as gus did. That way we know that you know the difference, and for those who don't, a nautical mile converts to 1.1508 (road) miles.

Since aircraft range is often quoted in nautical miles, the difference in numbers can get quite profound when you're looking at long hauls such as crossing oceans! Same goes for refueling, when you're talking litres versus quarts, and the difference in a Canadian gallon versus a US one, you'd better know the difference if you're planning a four, or five thousand mile flight!

I'm pretty sure Southern Air, and every other carrier in the world has no problem figuring out how much fuel they need to get from point A to B anywhere in the world, and that when we quote a price for fuel here, they know exactly how to convert that price into how much fuel they are actually getting for their buck. Same goes for how many nautical miles they can fly on that same amount of fuel, so that'd be a non-issue with them, but for us "armchair aviators", maybe if we're gonna talk "aircraft" we should try to speak "aircraft" and let everyone know WE at least think we know the difference.

I'm not sure if some of "your" distance claims in previuos threads were stated as nautical miles or otherwise.

palomino