This is great news. Good work to all the parties involved.

Apparently Mr. Brodsky missed the fact that Tom Madden retired a year ago.

Is the city going to continue to lose money each game the Cougars play?

Well this is an amazing revelation.

The previous agreement between the City and the Cougers was that the City would receive 12.5% of gross sales to $1.5 Million and then 15%, however not less than $3000.00 per game. This means that in the 2005/06 Season when the average attendence during the regular season was 3108 fans the City would get approx $4662.00 per game. The Cougers would get apprx $37,296.00 per game or gross aprox $1,342,656.00 for the 36 home games.

Fast forward to 2009 season. The average attendence per game is now 2017, so the City would now be getting $3025.00 per game and the Cougers approx $21,179.00 per game or approx $800,000.00 for 36 home games.

Here is a few quotes from Brodsky in the Prince George Citizen January 20th 2006.

**For the 2006 season the Cougers are averaging 3054 through 23 games. According to Brodsky thats 25% short of the teams break-even mark, which brings with it a projected loss of a half-million dollars,. At one time our break even point was between 3200 and 3300 people per game, said Brodsky.** **Because we have not raised ticket prices for so long, the break-even point is now 4000 or just a bit under.**

**Now that attendance is going down more,were going to miss the target by a bigger amount. For this year,we need to reach ticket revenue of $1.25 Million. If we dont reach that on ticket revenue, from exhibition right through playoffs,then we have an opporturnity to buy our way out of the lease**

**We cant make it on 3000, just as simple at that. I have no intention on tryng to make it on 3000 for too long.**

So by Brodskys own admission he is losing money. A substantial amount it would appear.

Now, if you have been losing a half a million dollars for the past three years, how in the hell can you sign a 10 year agreement with the City???? If there is no change in attendence then he is looking at a loss of $5 Million dollars over 10 years, at a minimum. Is he going to get a better deal from the City for the next 10 years. In other words is the City going to reduce their take per game and subsidize the Cougers??? The City doesnt make any money either at $3000.00 per game.

It will be interesting to see the details of the new agreement. I suspect that it will continue to contain an opt out clause, and once an opportunity presents itself, it will be Bye, Bye, Prince George.

I will continue to support the Cougars. We have seen some good teams and great players come through P.G. It would be nice to win with more consistency and that will come. You might be right about the gross revenue Palupo but its the net that counts. I am sure the coaches,scouts and management all work for free, and the rooms, bus, and meals are free as well. I don't think any owner strives to lose money or hockey games.

I dont get your point cougs78. Its Brodsky that says he's losing $500,000.00 per year, not me.

All I am saying is if he is losing that much money then its not likely he will stay in this town for very long.

You have to take the good times and the bad times.

So when will the good times come?

I'm still waiting for the good times to come too. 10 more years of frustration and mediocrity doesn't sound good to me. Sell the team to someone who cares!!!

Maybe the Cougars as a team have not been successful for a few years, but fans still get to watch high calibre hockey, think of all the players that have gone on to successful careers in the NHL. You get to watch them in action here at home, for less than twenty bucks a game, if you have a seasons ticket.
It would be much more exciting if the team as a whole won more games, but there is a lot of satisfaction to be had by watching tomorrows stars shine today.
What I am saying is; It's not all bad.
metalman.

True enough metalman. If the Cougars weren't in that building, it would be empty and under-utilized the vast majority of the time, except maybe for the odd concert that came through town. Having a WHL hockey team, even of the Cougars' calibre is good for the community.

Now, back to criticising the ownership!

For all intents and purposes the building is empty, and under utilized. The average this year is 2017 which is the paid number of seats. A lot of season ticket holders and commercial ticket holders are not present at any given game, so actual attendence is probably around 1800 people. This leave approx 3500 seats empty at any given game.

Im sure the Couger players are not to thrilled to be playing in front of so many empty seats. My point has always been the same. How low does attendence have to go before the City admits that they have a serious problem with this franchise.

Under the new agreement the Citys revenue will probably be reduced by half this year. (The new agreement is retroactive to 2008) so the Cities take will be reduced from 12.5% of gross ticket sales to approx 5%. or a reduction in the Cities take of approx $60,000.00 per year. This money goes direct to Brodsky, and the City loses money.

At 5% of Gross ticket sales the City is leasing the building to the Cougers for approx $1500.00 per night. Under the old agreement they got not less than $3000.00.

Any other group that wants to put on a show etc; will still have to pay the $3000.00.

And last but not least, the opting out clause stays in the contract, so that at the end of any give year Brodsky can pack up his bags and leave.

This is a prime example of the City once again building a huge complex with incoming revenue based on nothing more that wishful thinking, and flawed calculations. The end result is that this building is highly under utilized, and costs the City approx $400,000.00 per year to operate.

At this point it seems that the only way to turn this around is for the Cougers to attract a minimum of 3500 fans per game. Whats the chances?????

"This is a prime example of the City once again building a huge complex with incoming revenue based on nothing more that wishful thinking, and flawed calculations. "

Well, I don't think anyone would have predicted what has happened to the attendance especially in the last five years, but it is what it is. Had the franchise put together at least a couple of winning seasons, I'm sure that the attendance would still be good, or at the very least on a break-even level.

So what do you do? Pack the team up, and leave the building empty or try to bring the attendance up? Brodsky could opt out of the current agreement if attendance 'plummets' whatever that means.

For the time being, the community is better off with the team than without one, IMO.

Maybe the city would fare better if they unionized the hockey players and then we could all blame CUPE for their dismal failures as a team.

I have a better idea, let's blame Gordon Campbell and the B.C. Liberals!
metalman.

It's quite simple folks. If there was a product on the ice that more than 2,000 people on average thought was worth paying to see, the stands would be more full.

This franchise has simply not lived up to expectations since it has been here. There have been a few exciting seasons, however, for the most part, the franchise has a history of mediocrity. The team hasn't won a regular season banner, a Divisional banner, a Conference banner or a championship banner.

In a business where success is measured by wins, losses and championships, the Cougars have been a failure. You simply can't sugar coat it any other way. Until Mr. Brodsky finds a way to put a consistently acceptable product on the ice, the stands will remain empty.

Mr PG. Wrong. I predicted that the attendence at these games would not hold out. Mainly because of the following reasons.

(1) 5000 Fans per game would be approx 7% of Prince Georges population attending 36 home games per year.

(2) The oft repeated statement that Prince George is a hockey town, is incorrect. If one cared to look at the attendence for all the years that we had the Mohawks, and Spruce Kings, you would see that there were approx 2000 hard core hockey fans in this town.

(3) Often the Cougers and Spruce Kings play on the same days, which splits the take.

(4) In the beginning 1994 when there were large numbers of fans attending the games a huge percentage of them were young boys and girls, and wifes. Over a period of time a large portion of these **so-called** fans found other things to do.

(5) It is impossible to expect 5/6000 people to attend 36 home games a year. Even the hard core fans have a hard time attending every game.

(6) Hockey season in Prince George takes place at the same time as hunting season, and logging season, so a large number of people are too busy to attend hockey games.

(7) The relocation and upgrading of the Pr George Casino pulled many people out of the CN Centre, into the gambling establishment.

(8) The CN Centre itself has attraced a number of entertainment packages to the Centre, and this of course pulls more money out of peoples pockets.

(9) When you have a population that is decreasing, or at best stagnating, and you have numerous events that people can attend, then what tends to happen is that all events tend to get less people

What do we have to-day in Prince George that people can attend.
a. Two indoor swimming pools
b. Three or four skating rinks plus an ice oval
c. The Spruce Kings Games
d. The Womens and Mens Basketball at UNBC
e. The Northern Sports Centre. Walking, Running, Weights, Excercise machines, etc;
f. Theatre Northwest
g. Prince George Playhouse Theatre
h. Vanier Hall, and associated functions.
i. Movie Theatres
j. Ipods, and texting, that seems to be a national pastime.
k. Huge (relatively empty) Library
l. Huge (relatively empty) Art Centre
m. Curling Rink
n. Roller Rink
o. Various and Sundry concerts at the CN Centre
p. The Fury indoor Soccer.
q. Indoor soccer at the Northern Sports Centre
r. 160 TV Channels, and of course High Speed Internet.
s. Huge indoor Mall, and Huge shopping opportunities in other Malls.

In addition people have to raise a family, and go to work. There are only so many hours a week that are available for entertainment, and sitting on your ass for two hours watching a hockey game, with music and noise cranked to the 11th power blowing out your eardrums is not a lot of peoples first choice.

You can say **it is what it is** and I will say **it will never again be what it was**

The City is taking a bath on this building and on this franchise.

All valid points Palopu, but you've also missed the most important one and that is the fact that there are probably in the order of at least 2,000 to 2,500 ex-season ticket holders that will never buy another one for as long as Brodsky owns the team. A majority of them would be back in the stands (almost overnight I may add), if the team were under new ownership. Finding people that fit this group in PG is about as easy as finding bad air in the bowl.

"Mr PG. Wrong. I predicted that the attendence at these games would not hold out. "

Maybe. But you're negative about pretty much everything.

Youve got it wrong again Mr. PG not **negative** skeptical.

My point is that when the City, and other levels of Government make decisions to spend taxpayers money on these projects, the least they can do is a good and honest analysis of the costs/benefits.

We have many examples of where they havent done this and it is costings us big money.

(a) The CN Centre
(b) Northern Sports Centre
(c) Pr George Airport Runway Expansion.
(d) Automated Garbage Pick-up

The next two on their list that will cost us huge dollars if they used the same criteria they used for the above is the

(1) Performing Arts Centre
(2) Downtown Co-Generation Plant.

My experience with the City and others is that they do an analysis that allows them to build the project, rather than doing an in depth honest analysis.

As an example, when they do the analysis on the Co-Generation Plant do you think they will cost out the use of Natural Gas, or Electricity for the next 20 years as opposed to hauling and burning, biofuel, the cost of digging up the streets to lay the pipe, the cost to renovating all the Government buildings so that they can receive water heat: Will they include the cost of borrowing the $18 Million dollars over 10/15 years.

Do you think they will approach Terasen Gas, or BC Hydro, and try to negotiate reduced rates for all these Government buildings so that there would be no need to build the Co-Gen Plant.?????

I sincerely doubt it. I suspect that they will just build the bloody thing, let the contracts, spend the money, and at the end of the day the taxpayers can pick up the tab.

Have a nice day.

Ah nice to see the positive spin on the Cougars lease. For those of you who like hockey, you already know that this is the worst run organization in all of sports, not just hockey. They have proven over and over that they are inept to run a WHL franchise.

For those of you who don't like hockey, but care about this city, then give me a few seconds of your time as I put forward a few questions to you. As the Cougars are the anchor tenant for CN Centre and primarily the reason CN Centre was built, what has been their economic impact been on the city of PG? Bear in mind that when I say economic impact, that local dollars don't count, and for good reason. One, you must be talking about external dollars brought into PG, spent here, kept here, and having an impact on the average everyday citizen of PG. Also, the dollars that are spent on the Cougars by PG folks, could have been spent elsewhere in this city. What is the opportunity cost for other businesses in this city? That is, what other opportunities could PG folks have spent their money on that would have had a better return for PG?

Secondly, if folk from out of town come to PG, do they come to exclusively see the Cougars or do they decide to go after a long day of shopping? I highly doubt anyone is traveling here to see a last place team unless of course they know a player.

Lastly, how many Cougar jobs have been filled by actual people from PG?

Dan, the Cougars may be a good tenant for you in paying your bills, but one is left to speculate the opportunity lost by signing a deal with these charlatans.

This is a basic chicken and egg situation.


While we know that the City gets at least $3000.00 per game from gross ticket sales, and if we factor in 36 home games and 6 exibition games we could say they would get approx $126,000.00 per year from ticket sales. They also get some of the advertising money, suite rental money, and concession money. So we could probable say the would gross at best $150,000.00 per year.

What we dont know is the cost to the City for running this facility for 42 Games. ie; Heat, light, ice, zamboni driver, replay board operators, staff, janitors, maintenance, etc; etc;. This figure is never given out.

What we do know is that the City loses over $300,000.00 per year on this facility, so if we attribute half of the loss to other people using the facility, we can then assume that it costs us $150,000.00 to have the Cougers use the facilities, and therefore the whole excercise is a dead loss. Now that the Citys portion of gross ticket sales will drop from 12.5% to 5% with no $3000.00 minimum gaurantee, we will lose even more.

In other words, taxpayers of Prince George are in fact paying the Cougers to play in our building.

See anything wrong with this scenario????