Well, as if we never saw that coming from day one.

$tandard operating procedure. Typical First Nation shakedown using the "environment" as a smokescreen.

Question: Why has Canada spent 8 years, 20 billion$ and lost 139 Lives in Afghanistan?
Answer: oil & gas.
It is all about energy (power).
The pipeline will happen.

No I think those are some legitimate concerns we should all be looking at.

Think about it, any new oil sands production does increase our CO2 emmissions. Our government is set in the CO2 limit policy, and enforcing that policy with taxes on Canadians heating their homes and driving to work. Any new growth in one area will have to be paid for by punitive taxation in another, so as to to reduce consumption, and the punitive tax will thus be paid at the pump and through our home heating bills by you and me... we can all be sure of that.

So we all pay more for our heating bills and fuel so that we can export to a country that will drive up the value of our energy needs, and at the same time they will be exempt from the punitive CO2 taxes.

The CO2 catch 22 is a very serious issue to the future viability of our economy if we continue down the road that the political parties have laid out for us for greater government revenue. Our cost of living will spiral out of control if they are allowed to continue under current plans.

That said issues like the fisheries is a big deal considering the route the pipeline will take, and to say nothing of the closing of Eurocan... another possible casualty... and thus it makes sense to have an open and transparent process that addresses these kinds of concerns I think.

Hey ... someone discovered oil and gas in Afghanistan?

Learn something new every day.

Here is the oil situation in Afghanistan:

Oil - production: 0 bbl/day (2008 est.)
Oil - consumption: 5,000 bbl/day(2008 est.)
Oil - exports: 0 bbl/day(2007 est.)
Oil - imports: 4,404 bbl/day(2007 est.)
Oil - proved reserves: 0 bbl (1 January 2009 est.)

I mean, we might be stupid in having forces there, BUT, we are not that stupid that we think there is oil there.

Gus, there is no oil in Afghanistan, but the neighbors in the neighborhood have a third of the worlds know reserves in the Caspian basin, and the pipelines (read choke control points) are all planned to transit Afghanistan to feed the Indian Ocean ports, Pakistan, and India.

For a new perspective one might find it interesting to read up on the Bridas case and the goings on behind that to find out why we are in Afghanistan. The courts in Texas have a lot of information on that in there records for anyone that wnated to look and come to their own independent conclusions... very few have because its not something people want to accept as a motive at this time. Most are hoping that good will still come of it, and not very many are willing to defend the taliban.

Afganastan had the 4th largest natural gas reserves at the beginning of the war and there is a pipeline being built ... I had read that Haliburton was doing the work . here is some information from Wikkipedia about the proposed pipeline

The original project started in March 1995 when an inaugural memorandum of understanding between the governments of Turkmenistan and Pakistan for a pipeline project was signed. In August 1996, the Central Asia Gas Pipeline, Ltd. (CentGas) consortium for construction of a pipeline, led by U.S. oil company, Unocal was formed. On 27 October 1997, CentGas was incorporated in formal signing ceremonies in Ashgabat, Turkmenistan by several international oil companies along with the Government of Turkmenistan. In January 1998, the Taliban, selecting CentGas over Argentinian competitor Bridas Corporation, signed an agreement that allowed the proposed project to proceed. In June 1998, Russian Gazprom relinquished its 10% stake in the project. Unocal withdrew from the consortium on 8 December 1998.

The new deal on the pipeline was signed on 27 December 2002 by the leaders of Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan.[4] In 2005, the Asian Development Bank submitted the final version of a feasibility study designed by British company Penspen. ‘Since the US-led offensive that ousted the Taliban from power,’ reported Forbes in 2005, "the project has been revived and drawn strong US support" as it would allow the Central Asian republics to export energy to Western markets "without relying on Russian routes".

We must stop this hypocrisy. We all want to consume, but we don't want any industry in our backyard. We want meaningful work, but no traffic, noise or polution. When will we take responsibility for our consumtion and stop exporting our pollution to countries that have little or no regard for the enviroment?

The pipeline will have less impact than building a road. If the pipeline is not built, the products in question will be hauled by truck on our highways - I dont have to tell you which option is harder on the environment and more dangerous. The Pembina Institute are a bunch of crackpots, nobody takes them seriously.

The only reason this pipeline isn't going down the Robson Valley is because no Indian groups have solid land claims there. Its going where its going so our indigenous mafia can pick the bones and get their cut. They want this pipe worse than anybody, they just gotta run it down the line and grease the right palms.

My only question is what sort of long term economic impact is this going to have for these communities? Keep in mind when I say economic impact that I mean how many dollars from outside the area, are going to stay here, be spent here, and make an impact to each of us? Also, how many actual jobs will this create in terms of hours? Not head count, hours.

Is this provincial government going to work out some sort of deal that sees communities pay more in green taxes because we've allowed this through our community or do we get a reduction in green taxes because we're sacrificing our environment for the rest of the country?

There is always the option of moving product by rail.

moving that amount of oil by rail is not possible to do safely excspecially with CN's safty record. It is a pipeline or nothing. To go through the Robson valley would cost much more than the route Enbridge has picked out. I say build the pipeline than at least there would be another market for oil than the US. If the natives were worried about the enviroment that would be one thing but it seems that all they want is money.

If they are truly standing up for what the believe, than, good for them. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant. If however, they are merely waiting for a higher price, something has to be done. 3% of the population cannot be allowed to hold the entire country at ransom.

environmental concerns, cultural concerns,etc etc etc.....

Seen this scenario a thousand times before...


All code for..wait for this surprise....


NEED MORE MONEY !

Pipeline is bad...None of you are thinking about where the big threat is!

Perhaps you need a history lesson.

And don`t forget terrorism.

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.com/2009/11/it-cant-happen-again-can-it.html

C02, hasen't anyone here heard of climategate and how the whole Co2 mancaused globull warming is a scam. It is turning into a bigger money making scam than the oil industry.

There are many webstes to check but start with this one wattsupwiththat.com. Have a look before commenting.

"3% of the population cannot be allowed to hold the entire country at ransom."

3.8% of Canadians are aboriginal.

5% of BC residents are aboriginal. That is where the pipleine is going.

Thew rate of growth of the aboriginal population is 15% over the 5 year census period and 5% for the non aboriginals over the same period.

They are concerned. They have learned how to use the law. They no longer live in the 18th 19th and 20th century. Neither do we.

So maybe they are better at getting dollars from those who try to freeload. remember, we are not that good at negotiating with repect to our natural resources with our neighbours. Maybe we need some aboriginals at those trade talks.

:-)

I think they should build the pipeline to Vancouver. Let's see how many non aboriginals would protest.

Sorry gus,
it is not and never was planned to go to Vancouver. The whole idea is to use the Prince Rupert loading facilities because it is 3 days closer to Asia than Vancouver is.

then
  /ðɛn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [then] Show IPA ,
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–adverb
1. at that time: Prices were lower then.
2. immediately or soon afterward: The rain stopped and then started again.
3. next in order of time: We ate, then we started home.
4. at the same time: At first the water seemed blue, then gray.
5. next in order of place: Standing beside Charlie is my uncle, then my cousin, then my brother.
6. in addition; besides; also: I love my job, and then it pays so well.
7. in that case; as a consequence; in those circumstances: If you're sick, then you should stay in bed.
8. since that is so; as it appears; therefore: You have, then, found the mistake? You are leaving tonight then.

than
  /ðæn, ðɛn; unstressed ðən, ən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [than, then; unstressed thuhn, uhn] Show IPA
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–conjunction
1. (used, as after comparative adjectives and adverbs, to introduce the second member of an unequal comparison): She's taller than I am.
2. (used after some adverbs and adjectives expressing choice or diversity, such as other, otherwise, else, anywhere, or different, to introduce an alternative or denote a difference in kind, place, style, identity, etc.): I had no choice other than that. You won't find such freedom anywhere else than in this country.
3. (used to introduce the rejected choice in expressions of preference): I'd rather walk than drive there.
4. except; other than: We had no choice than to return home.
5. when: We had barely arrived than we had to leave again.

Loki whats with the gobbly gook?

just then and than

Loki. I realize the pipleine was not to go to Vancouver. I was just trrying to make the point that if it were to do that, I think that there would be just as much, if not more opposition to it.

Look at what happened in Tsawwassen with the high tension electrical conductors going through a Hydro easement in the back of people's properties.

Besides, they should be building a pipeline to Alaska, across the Bering Strait into Russia and then to China. Never mind the ocean going vessels.

The money offerred is obviously not enough for the First Nation's.

Can you spell "blackmail"?

Cut 'em off, fend for themselves like they want to, good luck!

It is most definitley not blackmail. It is free enterprise.

Wanna get permission to cross the land that we have a say in how it is to be used to benefit our communities?

Show me the money to compensate.

If you do not feel you can give what we think it is worth, off to arbitration we go.

It is contract negotiation plain and simple. For once the aboriginals have a bit of a chance. This is no longer a negotiation with Mother in England handled by some local jocal with a sidearm.

"Cut 'em off, fend for themselves like they want to, good luck!" ... Is Enbridge fending for itself?

This oil pipeline to Kitimat is essentially to supply oil to the USA, via ship.

The USA is the biggest importer of oil in the world.

Russia exports 6.67 million barrels of oil per day, and is one of the top ten exporters of oil in the world.

Here are the top 10 countries with the greatest oil reserves in the world.
1.Saudi Arabia 262 Billion Bbls.
2.Canada 179 Billion
3.Iran 126
4.Iraq 115
5.Kuwait 102
6.United Arab Emerites 98
7.Venuzalea 77
8.Russia 60
9.Libya 39
10.Nigeria 35

Canada is not in the top ten Oil Exporters in the World.

I dont think that there is any doubt that this oil pipeline will go through.

Enbridge waiting for government funding:

http://www.nickles.com/ntm/extra.asp?article=NTM2009_AD0000.html

Like or not,this WILL get done!
Watch!

To those who want mines and oil to stop...The first step is to stop being a consumer.. Cut the demand and the suply will follow.

I have cut my consumption to the minimum. No one else is following my example.

The oppostion is just the vocal minority. The silent majority as usual, rules.

I cannot believe the ignorant racism behind most of the comments about the Enbridge pipeline. Setting that aside, the reality is that the two 1000 km. pipelines would cross hundreds of fish-bearing streams and unstable mountain ranges that have resulted in several gas pipeline leaks due to landslides. First Nations are not the only residents along the proposed pipeline corridor opposing a project that would provide a handful of permanent jobs while putting our rivers and salmon at risk. It is not a question of if a leak would occur, but when.

So what's the alternative solution welshboy?

Do you not realize that BC (and the rest of the world) are already covered in natural gas and oil pipelines? Pipelines are the safest and most cost effective way to transport these materials. This is certainly not the first pipeline to be built and it won't be the last.