Letter To The Editor

Saturday, February 06, 2010 03:50 AM

Prince George D.B.I.A. Discriminatory SCHEME!

The revitalization of the downtown center is going into its 30th year with not much success. Is it not supposed to be the City’s responsibility to take care of it with funding from our land taxes? I am disappointed in City Council for being blinded by this Downtown Business Improvement Association scheme. This is what I see:

Firstly, I should say I am an owner of a building downtown, and I reject the P.G.D.B.I.A scheme. Kirk Gable and associates Incorporated a business called Prince George Downtown Business Improvement Association (hereafter referred to as PGDBIA), and their proposal says they need approx $200,000.00 to run their Incorporated business. This is where I smell a fish. The fine print of this scheme is that the city of Prince George is to grant all monies to PGDBIA, the current president is Kirk Gable, once a year. The truth of the matter is that no one knows how much tax money will be collected. Is it $200,000.00 or is it $500,000.00? Very clever scheme. How is it that this PGDBIA can tax each downtown business through the City…when the City can’t give out tax information to anyone?

#5 in the City of Prince George’s Notice of Intention explains that there is a $10,000.00 cap on large buildings. What most people don’t realize is that if you read #5 and #6 it explains that if a building is assessed at a greater amount, the excess over that $10,000.00 cap is “allocated proportionately between the owners of the remaining Taxable Properties within the Downtown Business Improvement Area…” So, the smaller building owners will be paying the excess of the cap on the larger buildings, not necessarily only what they are assessed at. This was confirmed in a telephone conversation with the PGDBIA office.

#1 in the City of Prince George’s Notice of Intention also says that one of the purposes of the PGDBIA is: “The improvement, beautification, or maintenance of streets, sidewalks or municipality owned land, buildings or structures…” So, a select few building owners downtown will be paying extra taxes to maintain or improve municipality owned land, buildings and structures!? This is ludicrous!

The PGDBIA has an underhanded advantage. In the PGDBIA letter from Kirk Gable to building owners, it says, “ Property owners will have 30 days to respond to the City, and those who do not respond will be assumed to be in favor.” This bylaw is called a reverse petition, and it was denied last year by Mayor Colin Kinsley and City Council. They also felt that one month as well as a reverse petition, was unfair to the business people downtown. And the PGDBIA is trying this again? Absurd! If the City partners with the PGDBIA, then it is my opinion that they too are guilty of discrimination and underhanded business.

And where does it end? Will this ‘special’ tax increase every year as everything else does? Who’s going to be able to afford to own a building downtown in 5 years? 100% of the owners of the downtown buildings, whether in Prince George or not, should be given the chance to say no to this, and NOT by an underhanded reverse petition. Not one business downtown should have to have this imposed on them. And what an absurd time in our economy to impose such a ridiculous thing! For those of you who pay rent to these downtown buildings, this involves you too. Your rents may go up in order that these business owners can afford their taxes. So, is that going to revitalize the downtown? Or is it going to cause more small renting businesses to close?

I’m certainly going to be voting next time for more business experience in City Council. I, personally, don’t appreciate that they sit back and say yes, yes, yes to something that won’t affect them just because it looks pretty. It’s kind of like the city would be playing Robin Hood for the PGDBIA.

Once again, the City’s downtown problem is the whole City’s problem! This is why we all pay taxes! A secondary tax, for a few, and not places like the casino or the College Heights area, is ridiculous and not acceptable. This looks like plain ol’ discrimination to me. I was born and raised in Prince George and am as committed as anyone to wanting to revitalize the downtown. However, I believe that everyone in Prince George would benefit, therefore everyone should be participating, not just a select few.

Yes, I smell fish, sorry PGDBIA...........NO DEAL.

~Peter Campbell Sr.

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Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 03:50 AM in Views by Submitted Article

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Comments

Posted by: Stompin Tom on February 6 2010 5:43 AM

Start up a kiosk somewhere on George Street, sell the previously free needles for $10.00 each, that should cover all costs that they need.

Posted by: whatintheheck on February 6 2010 6:00 AM

I smell a fish as well with the incorporated company. Would be interesting to know who the directors are in this company and will it end up being something similar to the society that sold a couple of properties in South Fort George for dirt cheap.

Posted by: Jim13135 on February 6 2010 6:37 AM

That society didn't have any members [the only members were those on the board]...and didn't tax anybody...a very fundamental difference don't you think??

A steering committee could do the same thing, maybe the question should be why do they think they need a separate incorporated company???

Posted by: Andyfreeze on February 6 2010 6:45 AM

30 years and nothing much has happened.
Still the same issues...so what are they missing?
The other day I looked around downtown while waiting for my wife and thought...wow...what a mess.
It looks pretty much like it did back in 1976 when I first came here.
Line up a row of D9's on Victoria street and don't don't stop until you get to the river.
If it wasn't for the fact that most merchants cannot afford to move somewhere else,downtown would be inhabited by ghosts.
Even the homeless would leave.

Posted by: Stompin Tom on February 6 2010 8:04 AM

Hmmm, imagine if the Casino built downtown, think there would have been a much larger influx of people?

How about the Multiplex?

Great vision by our city council.

At this point downtown needs a bigtime tenant to attract people. Either that or built a crap load of condo's. One way or the other they have to get people to go there. I was going to say "get people to go there again", but frankly I cant remember the last time people "went" there.

Posted by: Free Enterprise on February 6 2010 9:01 AM

Shame on City Hall...once again!

Posted by: Outwest on February 6 2010 9:07 AM

I came here in 1976 , downtown has gotten worse , a Haven for Drug Dealers, Panhandlers , Drunks, Hookers, I avoid it except going to the Library !

Posted by: gus on February 6 2010 10:04 AM

"How about the Multiplex?"

Look at Prospera Place in Kelowna. Big building surrounded by a sea of parking that is only full when there is an event. Does not do squat for downtown Kelowna. Way too far to walk.

Casino is the same thing. We had a casino downtown. Did squat for it. The movie theatres that were there before probably did more for that part of downtown.

The Casino in Kelowna is across from Prospera Place. People drive in, park, gamble, go home or some suburban restaurant before or after.

The Casino is in the best spot it could be in PG. Intersection of two main highways/arterials, easy to get to, sea of parking around it, a hotel for out of towners for the captive market.

Go to Vegas, go to Reno. The gambling hotels are all lined up in their spearate precinct with their own facilites to try to keep people there. Locals have other places to shop and be entertained. They are those communities' BCR industrial site. They bring the money in, but add squat to the normal lifestyle of community residents.

Posted by: gus on February 6 2010 10:10 AM

Why would anyone want to live in "downtown" Prince George? Try the Winnipeg/Vancouver corridor and one might have a chance.

There is one successful development there - the courtyard. Others have tried for decades now, but have failed to get it off the ground because they cannot pre-sell enough to start building.

The one on 7th that Creuzot was going to build looked very nice. Also the one on 7th and Vitoria. Would have been the proper type of development with commercial on the ground and residential above. Also on the right side of the downtown to make it most likely to succeed.

If there was money in it, the builders in this town would build there. They are not stupid. They build to stay in business, not to go out of business.

THAT is what Council does not seem to get!!!!!!

Posted by: gus on February 6 2010 11:03 AM

One other thing. We have between 75,000 and 80,000 people in Prince George and the immediate area that use Prince George as a shopping, recreation, education and entertainment area.

Two or so thousand people (that would be 1,000 or so units)living in the downtown area.

Put that into a "picture". If they were to be built as 10 storey high rises to conserve ground space, that would be about 20 buildings the size of the 10 or so storey apartment building on the south west corner of 3rd and Winnipeg.

We have 8 big box "grocery" stores in the community that serve at least 80,000 people. One per 10,000. If those 2,000 were to be added to the population of PG, rather than relocated, they could support an additional fifth of a store, or about 10,000 sf.

None of the big named stores selling gorceries would build that size. However, if one could consolidate a green grocer, a butcher, a fishmonger, a deli, a bakery, a small drug store, a coffee shop, and possibly a couple of small take out places for pizza, chinese, greek, etc. and that was all properly desinged and locarted to serve not only those 2,000 but also those in the city who are into a more pleasant shopping experience, then we might get somewhere.

And don't forget to add some office space and maybe an artisan or two who would ply their trade on the ground floor, visible to all who pass by.

Create a little village.

How do we get there? Not the DBIA, that is for certain.

This is a planning exercise for the City Planning Department. Not some consultant from out of town. Let us given them something meaningful to do. Make their job more pleasant and supportive of a better community.

Do the plan, set up the zoning, provide some incentives and be ready to move when there might be a turn around in the population "growth" in this city.

And make sure that there is good bus service that runs down the spine of the inner core housing precinct.

And if it does not work. At least we have tried more than just through useless street "beautification", traffic redirection and free parking projects.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 6 2010 12:51 PM

Raising taxes, eh? Now we are like our big city cousins now. 604 has Translink and we have the DBIA. Be it ever so. If a group of people such as the DBIA can raise taxes for some, why can't someone form a group to lower taxes? I will pick the letters for the group. Concerned Ratepayers Opposed To Calculated Harmful Regulation in Overpaying Taxes.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 6 2010 12:55 PM

If some one such as a like minded group wanted to lower my taxes, I sure wouldn't run down to city hall to sign a petition saying no. Sad. Reverse petitions. Heads I win, tails you lose.

Posted by: Eagleone on February 6 2010 2:57 PM

The downtown is dead because of location and nothing else. Lets face it, who wants to live across the river from a pulp mill on a flood plain that can never have meaningfull underground parking in an isolated corner of the city?

Gus is right in that you get some elevation up to the Victoria street and at least you can start talking about high rise residential....

IMO I think PG should focus on the concept Gus talks about, but locating it where the golf courses are now for the reasons stated above.

Posted by: interceptor on February 6 2010 6:49 PM

I dont know how to help the downtown, but I am laughing to tears at Harb's acronym! Thanks for the laugh...

Posted by: Eagleone on February 6 2010 7:19 PM

One point Peter is very right about I think is his objection to unaccountable taxation through property taxes. This is a huge problem and exploits some property owners for the benefit of others without any democratic accountability that is effective in balancing the interest of all stakeholders.

It smells like future bureaucratic corruption more than fish to me. It fits the mold of a failed system of taxation for municipalities in Canada.

Posted by: Eagleone on February 6 2010 7:21 PM

lol that is funny....

Posted by: gus on February 6 2010 8:46 PM

I agree that should be what they should put on the golf course. Problem is, it will once more cause the downtown to sit idel unless there is substantial and sustained growth in the order of 1.5 to 2% a year for a good 10+ years.

Interestingly, by creating such development and populating them, the city will become more attractive to new businesses because it is attractive to people, the key "raw material" businesses need to survive.

Posted by: dcfluid on February 6 2010 11:22 PM

Why all the expression to save or revitalize the downtown? We have so little of true historical signifigance here worth saving. No one from Europe or eastern Canada that I have met thinks anything manmade in this region is worthy enough to be called an attraction. Even Barkerville draws yawns from the people used to world class attraction many centuries old, still in pristine conditions. Let's get real and realize what we have. A historically young workers town, trying to grow into something attractive enough that more people will be moving here.
Let downtown die, stop wasting my taxes on it. Let modern developments go where they need to, to make profits and survive. The strong businesses downtown will survive and the area will evolve or degrade with the process of natural selection. Give every area of our city the same treatment, stop feeding my taxes into a pit of studies, renovations, committies, and associations.
Nothing wrong with evolution, evolve or die. The people will go where they want, and it's not downtown. Of 24 family and friends I have here, the only store that is a destination east of Victoria is the Northern. No one feels safe enough to window shop there, they go to the mall.

Posted by: gus on February 7 2010 8:38 AM

"We have so little of true historical signifigance here worth saving"

I would be interested in knowing what that little is.

Besides, the heart of Prince George must be somewhere. That is what people from outide want to know. Where is the passion of Prince George people directed?

The often several pick-up trucks and snowmobiles parked in their driveways and the vinyl sided houses with asphalt coated paper as roofing materials?

World attractions? Whose world? Chopin lived here? Mozart was born here? This is where Lincoln was born? This is the brilliant work of Eiffel? These are the stone houses the Scots who built the Rideau Canal lived in? This is where Riel was hanged? These are the streets Ghandi walked? This is where Fraser built a trading post? This is where the BX used to anchor? This is where CNN broadcast from to the rest of the world?

Posted by: gus on February 7 2010 8:57 AM

This is one of the places that people from the rest of the world visit when they come to Norway. A bunch of wooden buildings, three stories high, on the UNESCO list for World Cultural Heritage sites.

This is where they sent fish from to Germany. They relied on an extractive industry to bring money into the community.

We sent lumber to the rest of the country and the USA. An extractive industry we reilied on to bring money into the community.

The difference is, we are still young, but in 200 years we will be older and our buildings will no longer be around since we do not conserve and maintain what we built. We let it fall apart. THAT, is what we will get to be known for. A typical little hillbilly town that is the epitome of the North American throw away society.

Posted by: gus on February 7 2010 8:58 AM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/audunbakkeandersen/1097812250

Posted by: dcfluid on February 7 2010 9:38 AM

Gus, 'historically significant' is perhaps the wrong term. Many persons with sentimental memories of our area have a highly significant viewpoint. However, in terms of 'historically attractive', it fails miserably in comparrison to so much of the rest of the world and even most of Canada. We are not going to be a historical destination for as far into the future as you like to look, we will always come up short.
We can build on what we do have that the world wants, and build up our attractiveness with those. Let's build and promote our area for what it is and not try to get caught in an 'us too' plan.
We are a resourse based industry, transportation hub, vast wilderness recreation area, and slowly we are getting some reasearch and education infrastructure to support these areas.
These are the areas we have a geographical advantage with. Any town with cheap rent and low wages can attract call centers, notably overseas competitors, but no one can compete if they simply don't have what you have. Alberta has oil, agricultre, etc that they built their province with.
What do we have? Build our legacy with something we can be leaders with, and can make it last.
Finally, yes a city needs a central area of attraction. Who says it has too be downtown? Thru history the center of most cities migrate around as needed to suit the residents living there. Prince George is a spread out city with lots of room for everyone to go where they choose. Let's use that as a way to develop a unique, meets our needs city instead of copying some outdated blue print of what a city should be.
I chuckle when I see people comment on using bulldozers on the downtown, I hear people say it every day, a sentiment shared by more than a few.
With so little love for the downtown from the general populace I don't want any more of my taxes funding this lost cause, until a more viable solution arises.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 7 2010 12:17 PM

What would Homer do to help Springfield if Prince George was Springfield? Maybe it is. Springfield has an ongoing tire fire. We have our pulp mills. They have a nuclear power plant. We have UNBC. Ha ha ha . Draw yer own parallels.

Posted by: gus on February 7 2010 12:46 PM

dcfluid .... I can understand much of you viewpoint.

I was born in Germany in a city that was a major Roman outpost over 2,000 years ago. Buildings got bombed and unearthed floor mosaics from that era. Subways were built and re-routed around ruins found that became part of an unplanned station. Bombed out buildings from the middle ages were rebuilt after the war to such detail that it would take an expert to tell the difference between old and new.

This is the heart of that city both in the physical and emotional sense.

We have not such heart in this city. Few people give a chit. When a community has no heart, visitors can tell.

Go to Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec and Ontario. Go to the Southern Interior of BC and most of the Island. There are many communities there our size and smaller that are not 2,000+ years old. That does not mean they have no emotinal heart or physical heart.

PG will remain a non-entity until there are more people who realize that we have to work at it. It does not come naturally.

Posted by: verballabel on February 7 2010 7:18 PM

Thanks gus. Until the landlords and business owners downtown start to make changes to their appearance, people will not want to go down there.

One thing I'd like to see is to house the farmers market in an indoor/outdoor building like the Granville Island Market in Vancouver. This way they are located downtown all year round. Make it look real nice, and built with PG wood.

Posted by: gus on February 7 2010 8:36 PM

I agree with the farmers' market idea. The challenge is to make something that works 6 or 7 days a week, at least 8 hours a day, year round, from a farmers' market that works one day a week for 5 hours from April till September, 6 months of the year. I am not sure how long it manages to be open during the other months. It is not well advertised, so I do not even know where it is.

So, that is an increase of about 15 times its current open hours. A lot of people there would not even be able to attend much longer than they currently do.

To get something like Granville Island Market, Lonsdale Market, New West Market and the one on Robson Street, one would need to pull in the several stores we have in the community to that central facility. With a critical mass like that, there might be opportunities to increase the number of businesses since there would be enough people attracted to such a location.

That "challenge" has been there for about 10 years and even more. No one has managed to create a successful project out of all that interest.

I doubt the City wants to become the landlord for such a facility. So, where is the brave person, group of people or company willing to take the chance?

I wonder if the BIA were to direct 80% of its requested funds toward such a structure and keep the other 20% for administrative costs, if property owners donwtown would support the effort. $160,000 per year for 10 years would go a long way to provide the seed for putting a small and expandable building together.