Another community garden... yup that will bring more people downtown. I wonder what kind of taxes one can collect from a head of cabbage a few carrots?

Is this because there is zero interest from anybody to develop anything downtown?

...and btw that 7th & Victoria garden is completely surrounded by a large fence. That's attractive.

It'll be a community garden, instead of empty land, until it is developed. Use the land for public good rather than sit idle. It doesn't mean it's going to stay a garden.

What is wrong with that?

Is it any wonder why our taxes go up year after year. Let's have a quick look at some of the financial mismanagement that has come out in the last couple of weeks.

1. $833.00 per hour for an engineering consultant to look at the Boundary Road project.

2. 60-80k budget to develop a plan for the PG golf course lands- now in the hundreds of thousands and counting.

3. $4.3 million spent on consultants

4. God knows how much spent on MYPG and other studies with little or no results.The only difference I have seen downtown in the last 20 years are a few more vacant lots and burnt out buildings.

Now this!!!!!

The financial management of current Administration, Mayor And Council are incompetent at best CRIMINAL at worst. It is no wonder that people like Basserman are trying to keep these dealings behind closed doors. It's embarrassing.

That's disappointing to say the least. I give up on PG ever having a decent downtown. The potential is there but obviously our city council members have zero common sense. How about a condo complex w/ secure underground parking? Nice condo's (not low income) is the ONLY way to improve downtown! The City has been talking circles around this topic for as long as I can remember. If I was on City Council I would suggest a trip to Kamloops and see what strategies they used to clean up their downtown...it used to be no better than PG, but it's great now!!! The City obviously is incapable of figuring this out on their own...another community garden...whatever!

During the next municipal elections I will be expecting all you guys to run for office. Then, after you have convinced the voters that you are the saviors of the universe, you can show everyone how to run a city hall. Lets see you put your money where your mouths are.

One has to wonder about the Cities apparent need to be in the Real Estate Business. They state that the rationale for buying up property in the Down Town is to have it available at a resonalble price for some business if they wish to develop in the area. Seems this type of rationale only applies to the downtown,. If you want to locate in other areas of the City you will have to pay whatever price the seller is asking.

I think we need an audit of the City owned Property along with an assessment to see what the hell we own, and why we are sitting on it.

1. The lots the Outrigger and CKPG sat on.

2. The CN Building on 1st Ave. IPG offices.

3. Property at 4th and Victoria. New Police Station.

4. Lots that Norgate Auto Body used to own adjacent to the Keg. ( PAC Centre?)

5. Old Williams, Moving and Storage lots on East End of 3rd Ave. (Originally planned for the GOOFY co-generation plant)

6. City Yard on the East End of Third Avenue along with the Purchasing Offices etc; Wasnt this property supposed to be sold off, after the City bought the fancy high priced ($5 Million) or more property from Yellow Head Road and Bridge on Ospika and 15th.

7. Building on 2nd Ave that used to be a call Centre. Apparently sold to Tereasen Gas for a call centre. Did we take a beating on this building. Seems to me we paid around $400,000.00 to have it wired for computers, etc; Did we get this money back when we sold it to Tereasen? Somehow I doubt it.

These are just some of the properties that come to mind. I am sure there are more. Does the City now own the property where the Columbus Hotel was located? I think they got it for taxes owed.

Now they want to get into the Golf Course building, and Curling business. I suspect that they will end up with all the property that the Pine Valley now sits on and they will sell it for commercial development. In additon they want to tear down the Playhouse Theatre, and the Roller Rink and sell off that property.

Seems they are heavy into wheeling and dealing, rather than just running the City.

When the City sells off property such as that used for the Shopping Centres at 16 and Ferry. Or the Property for the Canadian Super Store, or the Car Lots. Where does this money go??? Does it go into General Revenue, and then disapear into the sunset, or does it go into the famous **Special Accounts** to be used at the discretion of the City???

One question. Can we impeach our city council members for incompetence? I for one would like to know.

What next ? maybe build onto City hall and have rooms for the homeless and put a garden in front where the lawn is now...and call it Rogers free parking. At least that way City hall would be of some use , it seems to be a lot of wasted space and money right now.

Several comments have been deleted from this post because of either libelous content or unacceptable language.

Please keep it clean.

Michelle Cyr-Whiting
Opinion250News

hey lonesome your comments are a bit outdated.

try catching up!

Hs the Citizen ever corrected its un-researched editorial that used the $833/hour? It was discovered that one of the counicllors made a mistake in using the worng number of hours the consultants put into that project. It was over 8,000 hours for the $1.5 million.

The chole thing is a $60 million project. 2 to 3% design fees for the preliminary work and the start of final design is quite reasonable.

Of course, we could just take a bunch of excavators, remove some soil to a depth that sort of feels good, put som stuff in that might hold some pavement on top, put somce thinkness of some kind of asphalt on top, ....oops ... wait .... we forgot all about the storm and sanitary systems ..... oh your're right .. some water ..... oh, hey ... do we need some fire protection loops too ... and how about lights .....

What a waste of land, fencing, benches soil and god knows what else.

I do not think that is a "good" feel use of the land.

The piece of land some call "downtown" is much too large. If the City wants to buy property and "green" it, that would be something I would support. We have NO parks in the downtown. SGOG suggested there be some. Council adopted the general principles of that. Buy some land where where it was roughly suggested and turn it into REAL parks, not some city garden ghettos because that is the cheapest that can be done it it, if truth be told why this is being done.

BTW, why did they not tear down their own piece of property that still has closed buildings on it? 4th and Victoria? Tear the building down, make a garden of the unpaved part. Leave the paved part for parking. The RCMP building is not going up tomorrow. If it ever gets built, it will be 2011 at the earliest.

Can we expect the land at Norgate and Enterprise etc to also get wired fencing with some community gardens around it? Maybe that would should be given to the youth containment centre and the jail to intensively farm it and use the vegies for the homeless. Start building some "greenhouses" with donated lumber, put some heavy poly over it and extend the season.

If you want to do this, do it seriously, not just dabble.

Oh UNBC? look at their sustainable landscape projects around the City. A total joke!!!!

Bohemian ..... ther are building standards, park standards, etc.

If the city is going to put these gardens in, there should be a standard that is reasonable. Last year's was totally ugly and useless.

My bad on the 833/hr. There is still a pattern of bad management decisions and financial ineptitude by this group.

My bad on the 833/hr. There is still a pattern of bad management decisions and financial ineptitude by this group.

I agree with ammora-put your names forward for the next election. You seem to know everything.

Would you prefer that until the site gets a new owner and new development we just leave it sit? Or make another parking lot? I agree, downtown is a mess. But all I read here is complaints-I'd love to see some of you make some constructive comments now and again. I know we've got a lot of great people in this city-love to see some positive ideas rather than complaints

How about doing something like this on part of the perimeter?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/octink/3880697059/in/photostream

Use it to put some of the drawings that came from SGOG on the hoarding ... use other parts for some art work from FN, from other PG artists and from kids at school with the theme of "downtown" Prince George.

Draw some building scenes on it that depict the way PG downtown USED to look like when people were using it.

Get some ideas flowing bohemian. You can do it and we can do it ...... leave it up to the city daddies and mommies and we get more of what we got last year.

Hey Flash .... how's that for contructivve comments??????

Where are yours? This is tag brainstorming and you're it!!

Maybe the $100,000/year communications guru at City Hall can get involved with this. It is an opportunity to promote the planning that is being done for the downtown.

Of coruse, the nay sayers will strat talking about graffiti and all that. Do what other cities do, provide a spot for that as well. Most graffiti artists are not vandals and will respect the art work of others.

Thanks for the great ideas, gus. I really don't have any, and it should please absolutely everyone that I have no plans to ever run for office ;)

Just nice to see some positive, constructive comments. Told you this town has some great people

I'm with gus. Make it a REAL downtown park with green space, trails, maybe a pond that could double as a skating surface in the winter, some benches so people working downtown could eat their lunch there on a nice day, etc.
Something like that would actually be used by people and it could be a catalyst for other stuff to pop up around it if it was done well enough.

Gus, ran a few elections ago, but nobody voted for him because he didn't have an incumbent name that was recognized (its about name recognition in this town when it comes to elections). I think his voice would be a good voice on council (more so now than before)... if he ran again and I'd lend him my vote (specifically for his ability to organize process).

Ditto for Palopu if he ran... I don't always agree with him, but it would be good to have some realism willing to hold the bureaucracy to account (specifically on the land use issues and operating budgets).

There are a lot better uses for taxpayer dollars than buying land downtown no one other than the city wants. The thought may occur to pay down some of the city debt so 13% of city income does not go towards interest on city loans. There is also the thought to decrease or atleast hold property taxes to last years level rather than the continuous yearly increase. Decrease the cost of user fees for minor hockey.
Anyone attending the garden will probably drive there so there will be an increase in green house gases.
The produce grown will be the most expensive produce in PG and in reality subsidized by the taxpayers of PG.
Just another bad idea from city hall. Councillors please come back to planet earth.

A garden! wonderfull. now the street people can go in there and eat something!

The street people in this town get three meals a day, seven days a week from the various Downtown charitable, volunteer programs. In addition they have access to very cheap clothing, and a least once a week free clothing. In addition there are a number of places where they can stay overnight. So they are not hard done by in the Food, Clothing, and Housing catagory. There main problem is drugs and alcohol.


The community garden is just a holding pattern for the property for the City until it can sell the land.

I suspect that there will we some major developments downtown in the next few years, whether this will have a significant effect on the over all problem remains to be seen.

I dont think that there is any doubt that if you eliminate the drinking establishments, and wine and liquor stores from the downtown area, and fill these spaces with Government offices, and high rise apartments, restaurants and supply some areas for the homeless to stay that the area will begin to improve.

Problem is, if you do not do it right you will end up with the problem in a different area, like what happened when the prostitutes, etc; moved into the Miller Addition, and the Hood. This was not a solution, but merely a shift.

Although I do not agree with some of the proposals for the downtown, there is no doubt that if they are built they will have an effect on the area.

a. Police Station at 4th and Victoria

b. Performing Arts Centre, adjacent to City Hall.

c. Wood Innovative Building **Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink** somewhere in the downtown area. (Maybe a High Rise)

d. Bigger and better Farmers Market.

e. Terasen Gas call centre 2nd Avenue.

f. We already have the new B&B Music building, and an adjacent coffee shop.

So there are some signs of progress.

Since when is the word "urinate" considered "unacceptable language"? It is a fact homeless people urinate in pubic places. (They LIVE in public places - where else would they urinate? I was expressing concern that given the fact homeless people urinate in public, maybe a public garden downtown is not the best idea. If we are going to discuss issues such as homelessness as adults, we need to get over any squeamishness we have about such things. There are many inappropriate terms for the act relieving ones self, I did not use any.

This website is supposed to encourage thought and debate and take the pulse of our city and up till now did a very good job of that. You can censor everything you don't like to hear and be left with a watered-down online love-in where everybody kisses Meisner's um, posterior, but what good is that?

I found myself in a difficult situation last summer in downtown Prince George. I needed to use a restroom/washroom.bathroom....whatever name you wish to call it.

There are no public facilities available downtown. Businesses are reluctant to offer facility use to anyone who is not a customer.

I was fortuneate.....I had a key to a downtown location and was able to use the facilities there.


And there lies the rub....what do you do if you have to go????? and there is no please available to go?????

I guess I don't really understand your point gamblor. Are we supposed to not develop our city because someone might go to the washroom there? I've seen drunk hockey fans do it outside the Multiplex and I've also seen sober golfers do it on the course. Should we tear those facilities down?

I'm actually of the belief that the nicer we make the downtown core, the less of that sort of stuff we'll see. Making it nice will tend to draw in people in crowds and the more people there are, the less likely you are to see people around doing things that aren't generally considered acceptable by the public. This goes for all sorts of things, whether it be vandalism, people using public space as a toilet and even crime. You help address these issues by increasing the use of an area, not by letting it stagnate and rot away.

Two questions. Question number one. Does the city of Prince George charter allow for the buying and selling of real estate? Who decides? Make money or lose money "flipping" or speculating? Who is held responsible? Question number two. Would it not be appropriate and more hygienic to install urinals in the alleys behind some buildings? Urinal cakes to be provided by the city's health department. Still a gritty little mill town.

The City is providing facilities- they will soon have pea(pee?) patches on every vacant lot downtown.

Eagleone ... I feel people on Council become jaded. Some of the newbies have this altruistic drive that feel they will be able to implement change. They soon find out otherwise.

Look at the budget process, for example. I recall that they stated they had no choice when they came on when the budget process started last year in January/February, so they essentially approved most of what the previous Council had started.

There is no such excuse this year.

What I think they should have done early in 2009, after the budget was passed, is direcgt administration to work on a process that would get them to a net expenditure that was a 3% reduction over 2009 without a loss in services.

Because of the uniqueness of that request over previous Councils, the intial draft of that should have been ready for review by August. A review of that and its implications would then have set the direction to Administration of the nature of the budget requests to be prepared by departments for October. That would then be refined for final presentation in January/February.

A toal new appoach is required during the transition. Without that intensive effort, it will continue to be the same old, same old. We now are watching that.

The names have changed, but the ideas and the processes are the same.

I have to shake my head when I read people bleating that if they don't like how things are done, they had better put their name on the ballot come next election.

It takes a lot of money to run for election, which is why you never see the 90% of working poor ever running.

Political ambitions are for the very rich, this is why the only people you ever see get elected are already wealthy!

Most people can't afford to run, but that doesn't take away their right to point out the people running the ship are drunk, or stealing the silverware.

"Put your name on the ballot" is as silly a thing to say as "Let them eat cake!"

I don't like neo-nazis, but I sure as hell am not going to try and take over a neo-nazi movement and try to make them right.

i think they should make an open plaza like park
with some big trees and a cobbled walk way and benches and maybe a fountain.
It just has to be an open space so junkies cant hide init to shoot up....

i think they should make an open plaza like park
with some big trees and a cobbled walk way and benches and maybe a fountain.
It just has to be an open space so junkies cant hide init to shoot up....

pojeb has a point, although I would tend to think that you may not need to be 'very rich' if you have sponsorship to pick up some of the campaign costs. Whether I could afford to campaign or not, I would not want the job of the politician, you are constantly trying to maintain people's approval of your actions, and most of us can so easily find fault in our elected ooficials. Maybe a system of citizens' committees is what we need to get some scrutiny on the issues such as budgeting, or whether or not to build a new copshop or p.a.c.
metalman.

I think that is great, and hopefully the center/shelter will utilize part of it with the residents as gardening is a great form of therapy!! and some of them are trying to start over, and working on/at a community garden just may work wonders for them!!

With the pollution throughout the downtown, wouldn't it not be a very good idea to have a garden there??? I wouldn't want to eat anything comming out of the soil around there!

As for condos, what's the point? No way people are going to purchase besides a homeless shelter.

Not only that, what homeless peopl would want to live next to a bunch of uppity condo owners. :-)

Of course the Woodwards mixed residential complex apparently shows otherwise. The again, that is Vancouver, not PG.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Woodward+comes+back+life/2305030/story.html