"The aftermath of the financial crisis is poised to bring a simmering fiscal problem in industrial economies to the boiling point", said the Swiss-based bank for central bankers -- the oldest and most venerable of the world's financial watchdogs. Drastic austerity measures will be needed to head off a compound interest spiral, if it is not already too late for some.

The risk is an "abrupt rise in government bond yields" as investors choke on a surfeit of public debt. "Bond traders are notoriously short-sighted, assuming they can get out before the storm hits: their time horizons are days or weeks, not years or decade. We take a longer and less benign view of current developments," said the study, entitled "The Future of Public Debt", by the bank's chief economist Stephen Cecchetti.

"The question is when markets will start putting pressure on governments, not if. When will investors start demanding a much higher compensation for holding increasingly large amounts of public debt? In some countries, unstable debt dynamics -- in which higher debt levels lead to higher interest rates, which then lead to even higher debt levels -- are already clearly on the horizon."

Official debt figures in the West are "very misleading" since they fail to take in account the contingent liabilities and pension debts that have mushroomed over recent years. "Rapidly ageing populations present a number of countries with the prospect of enormous future costs that are not wholly recognised in current budget projections. The size of these future obligations is anybody's guess," said the report. The BIS lamented the lack of any systematic data on the scale of unfunded IOUs that care-free politicians have handed out like confetti.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7564748/Sovereign-debt-crisis-at-boiling-point-warns-Bank-for-International-Settlements.html

"The size of these future obligations is anybody's guess"

You obviously have not heard that in 2015 the governments of the world are going to get together and wipe out all debt.

I hope that the fighthst petition gets some coverage from this site in the next few weeks as it progresses along. There is thousands of folks here in the north that need to be informed as to whats happening. Seems the canvssers are doing very well already and sounds like they got 10% signatures alread in gordos riding Point Grey. Theres many people workig very hard and this is the only chance to defeat this HST. People must be kept informed. So sign on the dotted line when you have the chance. Whats your opinion Ben?
Will the campaign gets sufficent coverage?

I agree with Matt about the HST deserving the coverage. IMO the HST debate is about whether or not we will live in a democracy or not. Clearly the process to bring in the HST was an assault on the democratic process and as such if it is allowed to go ahead it is a signal that the political parties truly don't need to listen to voters anymore as they can tell the voters what ever lies they want to get elected only to implement a hidden agenda once elected that goes counter to promises made to get the vote. The sanctity of the vote will be rendered meaningless if the HST goes ahead unchallenged.

LOL Gus, not going to ever happen (wipe out all debt). Especially when we consider a lot of debt is actually someone else's investment on the other side. It would be a contract law mess in a rule-of-law society. Good bankruptcy laws is all we could really hope for to keep things civil.

If we had a government truly planning for the coming fiscal crisis we would have legislation to improve the fairness of bankruptcy laws... ie company pension obligations, bond and trade debt considerations, secured creditor ethics in the death spiral process ect ect ect.

I notice a lot of money is spent by government for economic studies, and initiative boards, and and every other form of bureaucratic subsidization in the name of industry... but what does government do to help the real trail blazers that are creating real opportunities for value added growth. The government IMO has a free enterprise enabling role to play by ensuring adequate infrastructure.

Case in point the Pinnacle Pellet Plant south of Hixon. Probably a heavy truck entering or leaving that location every five minutes. No turn lanes off, or onto the highway... truck traffic jammed up to get on and off the scale backing up onto the highway... highway traffic (tourists especially) not expecting the blockage and trying to pass ect at a busy intersection location that has no real lighting, turn lanes, or marking to alert travelers to the change from the highway norms. Lots of jobs created however and a value created out of a waste bi-product of the forest industry that is an example of what should be happening on a larger scale.

One has to wonder where the governments infrastructure priorities are when one looks at this specific example.

Searching for economic espionage partners in Asia to sell our manufacturing assets to so they can reverse engineer our process and export our plant technology seems to be the strategy for our industry by this liberal government of the day (eg the Mackenzie pulp mill). Providing real infrastructure for a winner where it is needed doesn't even get on the radar (eg Hixon pallet plant)... especially if its in an ndp riding.

In Prince George we have two electoral ridings, Prince George - Mackenzie and Prince George - Valemount. It is absolutely essential people sign the petition which is for the electoral riding which they live in.

The following link will take you to a map which shows the two electoral ridings in the City of Prince George. It takes a few seconds for the image to load. When it finishes loading you will see a small "inset" map of the City of Prince George at the bottom right hand corner of the page. If you click on this map, it expands in size.

http://142.165.149.53/images/map/2008/smp/images/prince_george-mackenzie.jpg

Why is it that so few people give the proper right of way to pedestrians at intersections? They are known as unmarked crosswalks and, by law, the pedestrian has the right of way, yet very few drivers will stop. The ones who do will look at you like they're doing you a big favour.

Where have all the bridges gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the bridges gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the bridges gone?
The river took them everyone
When will they ever return?
When will they ever return?

Sorry to butcher an old Pete Seeger song like that
but it was what I was feeling
as I walked through Cottonwood Park the other day.
The park had its usual visitors.
Moms with strollers and kids on bikes.
Joggers and dog walkers and
others just taking in the scents and sounds of spring.
The geese were on the river and the eagle couple
were screaming at each other as they renovated their nest.
The sounds of the many birds helped drown out the noise of the city.
But something was missing,
Five bridges to be exact.
It has now been two long years since
we have had access to the island.
Should we change the name of the park
To Cottonwood No Island Access Park?

Where have all the bridges gone?
Do you miss them anyone?

Ben had the Regional Organizer of the HST on his talk show on Thursday. The local group of about 60 volunteers will start the local campaign (door to door) and random sign up starting Monday April 12th.

The Prince George volunteer group will cover the PG Mackenzie riding and the PG Valemount riding. The Nechako Lakes riding will be handled by them. Apparently Nechako Lake needs more volunteers as do the PG Ridings, and anyone interested in collecting signatures can go on line to fighthst.com and sign on as a canvasser. As long as they were registered to vote prior to April 6th.

They apparently are also looking for volunteers from Mackenzie BC so anyone in Mackenzie that is interested should sign on right away.

My understanding was that an office will be opened downstairs at 1705 3rd ave., the hours that this office will be opened would be announced after their canvassers meeting on Sunday.

So there you have it. Ben has covered his part to date, and no doubt will continue, so let the games begin.

Bang on RIP Commonsense!!!!

The City blames it on the Province for not coming through with money or something to that effect.

What is worse for me is that all the signs were gone as well. In addition, there is no indication to any visitors what has happened. When I checked this out last year Tourism PG still had maps and were giving these out without identifying which parts are no longer useable.

Welcome to PG. We really do not give a ......

I was reading Palmer in the Vancouver Sun yesterday, and he brought up an interesting point. The implementation of the HST is not a provincial law, it is federal. The province, it seems, has only introduced laws to end the PST. So the referendum, which I still fully support, is really not to cancel the HST law. Our referendum laws apply to provincial matters, not federal.

I am afraid that this will be the excuse around the referendum, even if its successful. The agencies overseeing the drive will say that voters were deceived by the canvassers (thought they were getting rid of HST, not the other law eliminating PST). While I will be signing the petition, I am afraid that it will do nothing but embarass the government. Any thoughts?

If the government makes HST law before the recall 10% is finished what happens then... I see the leg is in session next week?

HST; I don't believe that any amount of protest will sway the government in their determination to implement this new
(to us) scheme. The temptation of the extra revenue has far more allure than the wishes of the electorate. Go ahead and join the anti HST brigade, we must let them know that we are unhappy about it, but don't be too let down if they do not listen. Also, join the Canadian Taxpayers Federation www.taxpayer.com they are lobbying the BC and Ontario governments on our behalf, to reduce the HST to 10%
metalman.

metalman,

That is something to look into, lowering the HST would make much more sense to all of us, business and private.

Prostitute sign confuses drivers in Italy

A road sign depicting a woman with high heels, a short skirt, a little handbag and big breasts is confusing motorists in a town in Northern Italy. The triangular sign, shaped like a yield sign, says "Attenzione Prostitute" on it and would appear to warn of prostitutes operating in the area.

One driver said he wasn't sure what the sign meant:

"I just couldn't work out what it was for? Does it mean I have to look out for prostitutes crossing or that they are available around here?"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7547224/Prostitutes-sign-confuses-motorists.html

www.taxpayer.com/british-columbia/lower-hst

I don't know how to create a link to a website, but if you follow that web address, you will see a petition to lower the hst to 10%.
Please sign and send it.
metalman.

The (lega) petition to recind the HST by Bill Vandersalm can be viewed at **fighthst.com**

Im sure all the legal hurdles have been reached, or the petition would not have been okayed by Elections BC.

Insofar as the petition to reduce the hst to 10% may be a good idea, the timing is bad. We have to finish this legal petition and put it to bed before we start another one.

Who knows it may not be anything more than a divide and conquer ploy.

In any event lets finish this one and see the Governments reaction before we start another.

Palopu,

whats good for the gander isnt always whats good for the goose.

As we have gone over many times and not worth going over again, I support the HST for my reasons, you dont.

Therefor it is a good time for me to explore the other option which I feel is better for everybody.

I admire the efforts of the petitioners, although I do have some concerns about some of the mis-information and deception that will likely happen to get people to sign.

Ultimately like it or not, we will be paying the HST, even presuming that the petition campaign is successful.

I support HST, I support a 10% HST even more.

I also believe that only the people that voted on election day has the right to sign the petition. Then this information should then be made public.

We are Canadian, get use to being taxed. Besides, we all have been living a bit too high on the hog for the last thirty years. its time to get back to the basics.

I would prefer the government to tax us less and waste less money.

However, I support the HST. It is more efficient to have one tax than two. Just think of the number of government employees who will be let go because they are not needed to collect the PST. That is a good thing. Also, it will reduce the red tape for business. That is a good thing. Contrary to what people say, business cost savings are eventually passed on to consumers.

Will I like paying HST at McD and Tims? No, but that is just because I don't like paying taxes, not because I think the HST is a bad tax.

Everyone has the right to vote even IF they did not vote in the last election. I voted but I know that there are a lot of people who are fed up with the corruption in all levels of government. The young people are full of hopelessness and the old people feel abused by the way things have become. They worked hard all their lives for this country! They should not be taxed to death at the end. We should be ashamed of the way the poor, elderly, sick and students are being treated through taxation. The governments will NEVER HAVE ENOUGH. The waste and spending spree that is practiced by government has got to stop. There are probably more government workers than private sector workers. The ever shrinking middle class will not be able to support it all for ever. They will take, take take until we say enough and then they will take what is left. We are slaves to the monetary system which is just a huge scam that the few on top win at. Money created out of thin air. Hopelessness is growing everyday more and more. This is not what God wanted for us. We should not be slaves to anything!
Have a nice weekend all.

I was just thinking, with all these school closers will we be paying less school taxes next year! ;)

right on he spoke you hit the nail right on the head all you have to do is look around people 2 cars in the drive sleds boats trailers 4 wheelers and the list goes on stop crying and be happy with what you have got...

kolberg's statement about waste may have been too small to be noticed.

I believe that we all (business and individuals) have been taxed to the max. Unless the government is going to provide for my housing ad food, there is no more left in the cupboard.

I bet if any level if government made a point of cleaning out all the waste, redundancy and inefficiency, our tax load could be reduced significantly.

Perhaps our next mayor could win on a platform of doing just that at city hall.

hammy: good one.

When is Red Rock ever going to get high speed internet??? Xplornet is useless. May as well be on dial up.

Stompin Tom. I suggested in a letter to Campbell,Hansen, etc; a number of months ago that they should go to 10%. This is nothing new. I would agree with it also.

The problem is they are not interested, because at 10% they dont make any money. This is all about increasing our taxes, and nothing else.

Mr PG there may be some concern about how people sign, however the intent of most people in my opinion is to do the petition according to the law. Cant control those that dont, however it is illegal to sign more than once, so that avenue is closed, plus all the canvassers are registered with Elections BC and have to sign off on all signatures.

We may end up paying this tax in the end, however if we do then I suggest that the next step could well be a tax revolt.

Perhaps a flat out refusal by BC Residents to not pay anymore taxes than they did in 2008, if the Government doesnt like it they can take us to court, or better still they can resign.

Have a nice day.

This could easily apply to our schools

http://www.thescreeningroom.ca/2010/04/megan-fox-wants-to-make-arnie-cry.html

Here I am at a restaurant paying my bill. I decide not to pay them the HST portion, or even only 10% rather than 12%. We all know what would happen.

The government has a front man collecting the taxes. The enforcement then becomes he RCMP, or whatever the community police force happens to be, when they get called.

Taser time if you get too upset or have a big belt buckle .....

:-)

Is it just me or what. Is any one not concerned about the commonwealth real estate deal to the city. This has the pottenial to be the biggest story of the year. Why are the citizen and the free press not printing the story. The province news paper and BCTV news are aware of what went on. People need to ask questions and we tax payer need answers. If at the end of the day the deal was above board then fine. Dont let this story die on the vine.

Yeah let's spend more money on digging up info on deals made by the city.

What did we accomplish on the Gaming Centre investigation from Skakun? Just another bill to the taxpayers.

I agree that there may be something "fishy" with the PG Hotel deal, but the deal is done.

The City (we) will now have to pay the bill to demolish and clear the site. That bill could be close to $250,000.00 (based on what the City spent on the Columbus and Bamboo Hut).

What will the City get in return for handing the land over to the Province?

kolberg said..."However, I support the HST. It is more efficient to have one tax than two. Just think of the number of government employees who will be let go because they are not needed to collect the PST. That is a good thing."
How is anyone losing their job a good thing, even if they are government. Wait until it happens to you & then you may sing a different tune. My husband was a sawmill worker until his mill closed down and it's been hell. I would never want anyone to loss their job. It's not just the employee who suffers, it's their families too along with all the businesses they supported. No can imagine what it does to a family, a marriage and your entire life.

"When is Red Rock ever going to get high speed internet??? Xplornet is useless. May as well be on dial up."

Move into civilization. Plenty of high speed internet here.

"How is anyone losing their job a good thing, even if they are government. "

Wait a second. We constantly complain about government waste, yet we don't want to see government staff cut back? Seems like a conflict to me.

I understand the comments regarding support for the HST - after all - we are only going to be paying more for extras - fancy meals out, vacations, those ridiculously overpriced coffees at Starbucks - certainly if we can afford these, we can afford to shell out a few extra cents in HST. After all - as 'hespoke' says - "we have been living too high on the hog for the past thirty years and it is time to get back to the basics".

I am not sure what planet 'hespoke' has been living on, but it is certainly not mine. The HST will not affect my dining out, (seldom) my vacations, (none)my fancy toys (WTF?) etc. It will affect the clothes my kids wear, (HST will apply to the sizes my 12 and 13 year old kids fit)the sports and art programs I put them in (as the school system does not offer them) as well as the school supplies I purchase to send them to school. It will apply to the haircuts they need, and if I decide to really splurge - a bicycle (or is that living "to high on the hog" for you?)

The HST will apply to the fuel we use to heat our home, the hydro and the phone bills. It will not affect our cable or internet - but only because we do not have them (too "high on the hog" for us!)It will, however affect first aid supplies, vitamins and smoke detectors(I know, I know - more luxuries for us rich people).

I am a budgeter and saver - I manage to save a little of the money from the two jobs I work to support my family, so I realize how much a few cents here and a few dollars there can mean to an average family. Now those few dollars are going to be going to the government so that they can afford to give tax breaks to the big companies whose profits go overseas and whose products I can no longer afford.

I do not mind paying taxes, and I support the healthcare, education etc that those taxes provide. I do not support paying more so that the already wealthy can get a little richer, while all the rest of us get a little poorer and the Gov't officials who make it happen 'retire'to 5 and 6 figure 'management' or 'consulting' jobs for the same companies that their policies have enriched.

Yes I vote - but really - why?

" Posted by: MrPG on April 9 2010 10:59 AM"How is anyone losing their job a good thing, even if they are government. "

Wait a second. We constantly complain about government waste, yet we don't want to see government staff cut back? Seems like a conflict to me."


Apparently people losing their jobs is too deep a subject for you MrPG.

Heres hoping you do, whatever it is you do!

fn2play, you're bang on!

The only people that support the HST are those in the federal and Campbell gov't, business owners and those that haven't a clue because they are sheep!

"Wait a second. We constantly complain about government waste, yet we don't want to see government staff cut back? Seems like a conflict to me."


Apparently people losing their jobs is too deep a subject for you MrPG."

Well, maybe you can enlighten us with your wisdom on why you don't see my point as a conflict? I'm all ears.

MrPG: do you know where your food comes from? It is not from "civilization"

Mechanization and complete automation of food production has not yet been implemented. We still need people not only willing, but preferring to live outside of urban areas so they can grow the food you consume. Even Hogwarts has vast gardens to feed the residents, and the reality is that magic does not exist.

You may counter with "from foreign producers" but that is sending our high paying Canadian earnings out of the country to feed a foreign economy.

We need the rural areas and the wild areas. We cannot have one vast urban planet, it will die. I suggest you plan and participate in a summer on the farm.

Jayda:
Aside from that, any community can approach the federal government for support of a community based ISP. Back in 1998 the federal government stated a mandate to make Canada the most connected country in the world and they are still on that track. Once the ISP is in place, ABC communications is able to provide wireless access to the regional residents. The catch is the community has to buy in and support it.
Get your community association to strike a community internet provider committee to pursue this action item.

"MrPG: do you know where your food comes from? It is not from "civilization"

Weren't we talking about internet access? In any case, I'm well aware of the government initiative to bring high speed internet to the hinterlands. I never said that we don't 'need' rural residents, I do have some issues with some rural residents demanding the some of same service levels that the bulk of the population enjoy in rural areas.

The fact of the matter is that it is very costly to give everything to everyone no matter where they live, so if you support that, it's fine... but don't complain about high taxes and 'government waste'.

Butch, the rooster.....



John was in the fertilized egg business. He had several hundred young layers (hens), called 'pullets,' and ten roosters to fertilize the eggs. He kept records, and any rooster not performing went into the soup pot and was replaced.

This took a lot of time, so he bought some tiny bells and attached them to his roosters. Each bell had a different tone, so he could tell from a distance, which rooster was performing. Now, he could sit on the porch and fill out an efficiency report by just listening to the bells.
John's favorite rooster, old Butch, he was a very fine specimen, but this morning he noticed old Butch's bell hadn't rung at all!

When he went to investigate, he saw the other roosters were busy chasing pullets, bells-a-ringing, but the pullets, hearing the roosters coming would run for cover.

To John's amazement, old Butch had his bell in his beak, so it didn't ring. He'd sneak up on a pullet, do his job and walk on to the next one.

John was so proud of old Butch, he entered him in the Renfrew County Fair and he became an overnight sensation among the judges.

The judges not only awarded old Butch the 'No Bell Piece Prize,' but they also awarded him the 'Pullet-surprise,' as well.

Clearly old Butch was a politician in the making. Who else but a politician could figure out how to win two of the most highly coveted awards on our planet by being the best at sneaking up on the populace and screwing them when they weren't paying attention.

Vote carefully next election, the bells are not always audible.

Correction to above: "I do have some issues with some rural residents demanding the some of same service levels that the bulk of the population enjoy in URBAN areas. "

Mrpg:
"Move into civilization. Plenty of high speed internet here"
Here a clue for you pg, not everyone wants to live cheek by jowl with your neighbours and your postage stamp sized yards, traffic noise, etc. etc. ad infinitum. Just another hick is me, and no hi-speed internet neither, dang!
metalman.

thank you loki,laughed a good 5min on that one.
anyway heres what i think,not that anyone may care
domocracy only applies to the elections,after that the politicians have control and you will have a hard time stopping what they want to do.
food can be grown indoors with hydroponics,meat,hey tofu has any flavour you want,so theoredicly rural farming is not needed,so live out there and don't say its needed(choices)
taxes,taxes,taxes,need them for infrastucture,saftey and health,so why is it that its ok to pay up to 35%of gross to taxes,then another 12%on the net and get almost nothing in return.
thats should be good for now

oh ya,government jobs,anyone feel sorry for all the forestry workers loosing their jobs"hey down turn in the economy","bad lumber prices"etc.Well if there is less money going TO gov't them it only makes sence to trim the fat,and let the fat cats ijn gov't do there own jobs,rather than tax payers money to pay others to most of it for them.Share the wealth,share the cuts.

sorry "rather than use tax payers money to pay others to do most of thier work for them.

Of course the falacy in Mr. PG's argument is his assumption that it is cheaper for the Canadian taxpayer to provide support to the urban dweller than it is to provide support to the rural dweller.

If he could show that is the case, then he would have a semblance of a chance to win his point of view. However, he has a slim to no chance of doing that.

I agree damyzz! When all the forest workers were losing their jobs the Ministry of Forestry was renovating a whole floor in the plaza 400 right here in PG. When I asked why the response was shocking. "We need to make room for additional staff". I walked away shaking my head. Brand new top of the line furniture systems. No expense was spared. Not one government forestry worker has been laid off. My friend has worked for Forestry for 35 years. He is sick to death of what he sees and can not wait to retire. 7 guys do what he and two other did 10 years ago. He often sits at his desk and does nothing other than killing time by playing games on his computer. We the people need some legal team or whatever to go into government and do what needs to be done because they won’t. They will never have enough money like one other poster said because of waste. Government has gotten bigger and will continue that way because we DO NOTHING! The sheep need to take back government so that they can become people again. If things continue the way they are our grandchildren will have nothing and BC will be owned by corporations based outside of Canada. I believe that when and if the truth comes out about all of Campbell’s shady dealings it will be mind boggling and devastating information.

Why do developers have to destroy a green belt, put up a big ugly coming soon sign and then do nothing with it.I speak of the so called Outdoor equipment store that is supposed to be at the corner of O'grady and Domano. That land was destroyed almost a year ago and nothings been built. Clear the lot when you actually have something to put on it so we don't have to look at an ugly clear cut every day.

metalman: "Here a clue for you pg, not everyone wants to live cheek by jowl with your neighbours and your postage stamp sized yards, traffic noise, etc. etc. ad infinitum. Just another hick is me, and no hi-speed internet neither, dang!
metalman."

Nobody is telling anyone where to live. Just don't expect me to pick up the tab so that you can have services out wherever it is you reside.

gus: "Of course the falacy in Mr. PG's argument is his assumption that it is cheaper for the Canadian taxpayer to provide support to the urban dweller than it is to provide support to the rural dweller."

I don't make the trends, gus. The fact is that more people are living in urban areas and fewer in rural. As that ratio increases, it is less cost-effective to supply the same services to very few people. This is basic supply and demand economics. If you can't wrap your brain around that, I don't know what to tell you.

Why do developers have to destroy a green belt, put up a big ugly coming soon sign and then do nothing with it.I speak of the so called Outdoor equipment store that is supposed to be at the corner of O'grady and Domano. That land was destroyed almost a year ago and nothings been built. Clear the lot when you actually have something to put on it so we don't have to look at an ugly clear cut every day.

MrPG you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer huh?

You wrote, "Well, maybe you can enlighten us with your wisdom on why you don't see my point as a conflict?"

My comments have nothing to do with what I see or don't see as a conflict.

What part of people losing their jobs is not a good thing even if they are gov't employees, escapes you?

You say "Wait a second. We constantly complain about government waste, yet we don't want to see government staff cut back? Seems like a conflict to me."

Who are the "We"? You and ?.

Did you read somewhere where Mythoughts wrote something that put her into your
"We" category?

Who exactly is included in your "We" club?

You apparently don't have an issue with someone losing their job because they are a gov't employee.

Some people care what happens to others no matter who they work for.

Your reply to Mythoughts comment says much about what you think of others.

An appropriate reply from you or anyone to Mythoughts statement would be to agree that anyone losing their job no matter who they are employed by is a terrible thing. Yet you always insist upon making comments that show what you are all about.

You live in an ugly clear cut vocer.

You're right though, it sure is taking Wholesale a while to start building...guess they're waiting for the economy to pick up. Or something.

Loki

Thanks, yes not everyone chooses civilization. I believe our community association has tried. I'm sure the lines go right past us, as Hixon has it PG has it and I'm sure the new weigh scales will have it. We seem to be missing a link somewhere. Telus has been promising for 10 years now.

"MrPG you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer huh?"

Far sharper than you, apparently.

Since it appears to have gone clear over your head, my point was that people complain about government waste and yet don't want to see government cut staff. You can't have it both ways.

Hope that clears it up for you. If not, I can't help you any more.

gus you need to shake the Friday fog off your brain.

Surely you are not suggesting that it is cheaper to supply internet services or paved roads or sewer/water/garbage services, hockey arenas, library's, food delivery, healthcare etc to a population based on one household per 5 or 20 or 50 acres vs one household per 1/4 acre?

It would be convenient to blame your lack of analytical skills on the government, but methinks that problem is all on you.

Indeed, it is more cost effective to service a more dense urban environment. I simply take exception to anyone ever suggesting that the urbanization trend is the end all. If someone expresses a desire to maintain a rural life and not do without modern amenities, they should not be penalized.

There are challenges to providing even a close approximation of equal services in a rural setting compared to the urban setting. To quote someone else, "challenges are unrealized opportunities." with that in mind, there is a huge opportunity for an astute business person to serve rural communities with high speed. The government already has programs in place if someone with the wherewithal would only take the chance on these challenges and the communities I am sure would jump on board. Those communities are not looking for a free ride. They just don't know how and do not have the contacts or skills to make it happen. Industry Canada is who is responsible for this program I think.

Just because it is "the" trend, does not make it a good or right thing. Sheeple will blindly follow the most popular trends (pants on the ground). It is the independent frontier spirit of those outside the lower mainland that buck the trends. That is a good thing in my mind as we all need to evaluate our circumstances in an ongoing fashion, lest we fall into one of the many big brother/totalitarian regime scenarios proposed in literature and have been very close to reality throughout the world.

IMO, regarding your Plaza 400 reno rant.

If you and your connection really knew anything about what went on regarding the reno's then you'd have the right to make comments. Tell us all what dept did these reno's

You say, "Not one government forestry worker has been laid off"

Thats a lie! I know that for a fact.

So tell us MrPG, what are your thoughts about people employed by the gov't losing their jobs?

"Indeed, it is more cost effective to service a more dense urban environment. I simply take exception to anyone ever suggesting that the urbanization trend is the end all. If someone expresses a desire to maintain a rural life and not do without modern amenities, they should not be penalized."

Totally agreed. However, just because you and others don't happen to like 'the' trend doesn't mean it's not happening or will not continue.

Dragonmaster: "So tell us MrPG, what are your thoughts about people employed by the gov't losing their jobs?"

Personally, I think gov't staff at all levels should be cut to match what has happened everywhere else. To a large extent, this has not happened.

Absolutely correct MrPG, if someones job is no longer required, then they lose their job.

We don't pay a milkman to deliver milk every day anymore or lamplighters to light streetlights as they are not required.

It is often SAD when someone loses a job, but it is not always BAD.

How about this "without the Hinterlands You wont be living in the City" you will starve, be cold.
Loki: Great Story , Butch the Rooster and the Italian Road Sign.

More than a decade ago I heard the figure that 3 out of 5 Canadians worked in all levels of government. I tried to rustle up the current figure but was not ale to find it.

Gus, Stompin tom, metalman metalman, anyone, can u find the current numbers.

It seems to me that if that figure is correct would go a long way to explain deficits and ever increasing taxation.

Mr. PG.

Again, you make a very fundamental mistake. Supply and demand kicks in for some cases and not for others. As technology changes so do the costs of providing services.

The example was high speed internet. Accessible the world over now. No more need to be hooked up to a land line. Costs a bit more still, but that too will change.

You speak about the masses of people living in an urban environment. You can see those same masses of people moving along multi-lane highways throughout North America each workday morning. News programs devote at least 5 minutes per hour on the daily commute that takes about as long as a drive from Nukko Lake at the least. In order to coax people from that method of commuting to use rapid transit, billions of dollars are spend to increase those NOT using the roadways.

We get a $30 million doubling of a bridge over the Fraser, GVRD get a $3 billion doubling of a bridge over the Fraser. That is a factor of about 100 difference. And, of course, it is not the only relatively new bridge over the Fraser in the GVRD.

We have about 80,000 living in the GPG. The GVRD has about 30 times as many people. Do you have some figures for the cost of commuting infrastructure for the GVRD versus small town PG? If truth be told, cities the size of PG are not exactly urban areas. They are semi-urban or semi-rural.

Rounder:"What will the City get in return for handing the land over to the Province?"

Hasn't that been discussed over and over?

Answer: A Wood Innovation and Design Centre.

(Don't thank me, this was easy).

Loki: With regard to your question about the number of government workers in this country, I posted the following on this web site on March 12, 2010:

The following is taken from an article written on March 10, 2010 entitled "Civil service: Too many jobs, too little service".

In February, Statistics Canada reported that public-sector employment increased 0.5 per cent in the final quarter of 2009. This may not seem excessive. But it was enough, year over year, to bump the number of Canadians who work for government to 3,650,000 from 3,350,000 - a public-sector infusion of another 300,000 people.

Canada has a labour force of 16.9 million workers - and a public sector that requires the full-time services of more than one in five of them. At the end of 2008, the public sector needed to employ 19.1 per cent of the work force; at the end of 2009, 21.1 per cent. Local governments were the most aggressive last year - expanding staff by 3.2 per cent. Did anyone in the country detect any improvement in efficiency at City Hall? Did anyone observe any gain either in productivity or in performance?

The following link will take you to the article in the Globe & Mail I took this quote from:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/civil-service-too-many-jobs-too-little-service/article1495774/

Depends what is considered government.

The entire health system?
The entire education system?

Here are the stats:

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labor10a-eng.htm

16.8 million total employed

3.7 million of those in goods producing (or what some people errroneously refer to as those who create money) some are in government, but very few.

0.9 million in public administration (the real hard core government employees - so roughly 5% of the workforce

3.0 million in education and health care, most of whom work for government funded sectors of the industry.

There would be a few more government workers in other categories, so they would likely trade off the ones who are in private sector components of education and health.

Given that as a definition, I would say one out of four workers get a paycheck or fee from government dollars.

A Wood Innovation and Design Centre.

Really?
And how exactly will that directly benefit me?
Will I or a family member be employed by it?
Will it generate any direct positive influence on our local economy?
Will it provide a tax credit to the citizens paying for it, the citizens of PG?

All I see is another way for our inefficient government to waste more of my tax money on pie in the sky dreams that will only profit the elite. If it is a research facility, no benefit will be derived for a minimum of a decade, and even that will have an additional time added on to develop any implementation of that research. Again, we pay for anothers benefit. So how is this a good thing for us? At least Vancouver has the population to support such a venture.

If you think that one (1) city block is adequate for this type of facility, I want what you are taking. 1 block would not even be adequate for parking.

gus: "Again, you make a very fundamental mistake. Supply and demand kicks in for some cases and not for others. As technology changes so do the costs of providing services."

And again gus, in your attempt to muddy the waters of the discussion, you have missed my point, which was that supply and demand does matter when it comes to providing many services in general to rural residents.

That all being said, I don't disagree with a lot of your post, I'm just not sure why you want to split hairs on something when it is unnecessary. Mind you, looking at your posts historically, you are a classic hair splitter, so maybe this is no different.

Mr. PG .....

I do not like general statements. If those who design systems and did research of how to improve an existing system were to jsut look at general applications, there would be little progress in this world.

IN GENERAL, I agree that most people do not care about such details. Just give me the yes or no answer. Don't tell me about the gray. It is often the gray where the solutions actually lie, where the trends can be seen.

Just different backgrounds and different knowledge bases. Interstingly wih many billions of people on this earth, that tends to happen every now and then.... LOL

If you prefer to live in a cookie cutter world ... hey, knock yourself out.

Hello hope it's a fine day for you all have a good weekend...... Chris L.

Loki

I posted this under another thread recently. It provides my opinion about why a wood tech centre. BAsically, if you want to improve the utilization of the land base for forestry, one has to keep up wih the reseach. We have Forintek that does a relatively good job, but we could use some more brains to work at improving our value added products. It is one thing to talk about it, another to actually do somethng about it. Industry ain't. You tell me why.

"What the hell can we learn about wood that we dont already know???"

I think we can learn the key thing we have not been able to figure out yet. How to get 4 to 5 times the money out of the land base without ruining the great potential we have for tourism.

Bavaria
- land area = 70,550 km2
- population = 12.519 million
- per capita GDP = C$44,509
- forestry + timber sector = C$33.5 BILLION/year
http://www.bavaria.org/forest_market.php

BC
- land area = 944,735 km2
- population = 4.495 million
- per capita GDP = C$41,689
- forestry + timber sector = C$17 BILLION/year
http://www.forest-education.info/forest-facts/index.html

Two geographically similar areas, both with forestry as a/the major industry. BC has over 10 times the land base, yet Baveria can produce over twice the income from forestry that BC can produce.

Places like Bavaria, Austria, Oregon and others have plenty of wood research centres which allow them to increase the value of the extracted raw material before it goes to market.

If we want to do the same, it will not be handed to us on a silver platter. We have to go after it ourselves.

The longer it takes us to get to that Eureka moment, the worse off we will be.

Hi Chris. See you downtown tonight.

I agree damyzz! When all the forest workers were losing their jobs the Ministry of Forestry was renovating a whole floor in the plaza 400 right here in PG. When I asked why the response was shocking. "We need to make room for additional staff". I walked away shaking my head. Brand new top of the line furniture systems. No expense was spared. Not one government forestry worker has been laid off. My friend has worked for Forestry for 35 years. He is sick to death of what he sees and can not wait to retire. 7 guys do what he and two other did 10 years ago. He often sits at his desk and does nothing other than killing time by playing games on his computer. We the people need some legal team or whatever to go into government and do what needs to be done because they won’t. They will never have enough money like one other poster said because of waste. Government has gotten bigger and will continue that way because we DO NOTHING! The sheep need to take back government so that they can become people again. If things continue the way they are our grandchildren will have nothing and BC will be owned by corporations based outside of Canada. I believe that when and if the truth comes out about all of Campbell’s shady dealings it will be mind boggling and devastating information.

Here is what wood tech research can produce, a 9 storey wood structure building. A systems building technique developed in Austria. Yes, that is right, the country with that Wood Tech centre ... :-)

http://www.bdcnetwork.com/article/379526-World_s_tallest_all_wood_residential_structure_opens_in_London.php

http://www.klh.m2online.at/fileadmin/klh/bilder/2007/Konstruktion/Building_elements_catalogue_multi_storey_buildings_01.PDF

More than one way to skin the cat ....

But hey, if we were all the same as Mr. PG, then the entire world would be building housing out of 2 bys from around here..... :-) Once you got a system, why look for something different.

Heaven forbid, it might actually be better.

gus: "I do not like general statements."

Clearly not, considering your posts ('in general') are longer than anyone else's by far. I don't have the time nor the inclination to spell out every fine detail and exception to the rule, but if you want to do that, knock yourself out.

http://www.bc-forum.org/pdf_pubs/presentation/Hansen_071108.pdf

This slide presentation is 3 years old. Tells US wood based manufacturing industry to get off their behinds and start competing seriously .....

Jeezz...... longer than palopou's .....

now you hurt my feelings ..... :-)

Loki:"If you think that one (1) city block is adequate for this type of facility, I want what you are taking. 1 block would not even be adequate for parking."

You can't have any of what I am taking!

You already came to the conclusion that the City will NOT be giving the land to the Province because it is too small.

Well, then, the City will NOT be giving it to the Province - although the whole story has been revolving for many days about the likelihood that it may indeed become the site for the new Wood Innovation Center because the land also includes the present large parking lot next to it.

I wonder what all THOSE people are taking who have been insisting all along that the Innovation Center will indeed be put there?

Some of these people include final decision makers...

Stoped at the liquor store today and the Libs have even raised the price of beer as of April 1 the money grubbin tax robbin bunch of @#$#@@

I didn't mean stoped I meant stopped. But I'm still stupdified. Money grubbin tax robbin bunch of @#$#@@

This has been a great Friday Free for all, lots of interesting comments, and most everyone is behaving themselves, as far as their comments anyway, good to see.
Two more plugs, he said shamelessly;

Watch out for motorcyclists on the roads!

Check out the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, or for you business people, check out the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. I belong to both, and believe in them, they are our 'voice' against the government, and they both do a lot of good for the average Canadian, even if we don't see them or hear of them very much. Okay that was three, but hey it's Friday! Have a good week end y'all.
metalman.

Don't forget the City also owns a good swath of the block CKPG and the Outrigger were on. ...

Then again, the City also owns property by the river. It would be great to have a view of the river instead of the rooftops of shantytown..... and be able to go for a jog along the river during lunch instead of breathing in the fumes of cars idling for free....

"This has been a great Friday Free for all, lots of interesting comments, and most everyone is behaving themselves, as far as their comments anyway, good to see."

Totally agreed, a great free for all this week. I won't agree with some people's point of view and they won't agree with mine, but it's good to have this forum to let our thoughts be known without resorting to personal attacks (well, most of the time anyway).

An animal trainer died Friday after being kicked by an elephant at a circus.

The accident happened about 5 p.m. at the Irem Shrine Circus in Wilkes-Barre.

Wilkes-Barre Police Lt. Steven Olshefski said the elephant was somehow startled and kicked the trainer, who died at the scene. The trainer was thrown about 20 feet, WNEP reported.

The accident happened when the circus wasn't open, and the elephant was in a secure area. Police said other trainers rushed to the area and were able to calm the elephant.

We should all be very glad that something like this will never happen in Prince George due to the good sense of City Hall.

didn't quite hit the 100 mark .... close though ....

Have a great weekend.

Darned cold these days overnight. Have to get the bonfire going.

Another sunny day. Beautiful weekend. Buds starting to be visible on trees.