Go Prince George!

Go Kamloops, go Kelowna, we dont need this project. We are still paying for the VANCOUVER olympics. And here is another airy fairy sports event that the tax payers will be stuck with.
Cheers

Retird, I am sorry you feel this way about such an excellent project.

This city is 11 million dollars in debt. Enough spending until we are in the black again. DUHHHHH!

PG will never be in the "black" but lets be on the map! It's time we got some recognition for the great town we are becoming! I for one, think this would be a great opportunity for business owners and for people to see that we aren't just a "mill" town anymore! I say go PG!

What a great opportunity.... go Prince George!

maybe i will pull my snow plow out of storage....

Actually we are still a mill town. That is a mill town with a University (small) College, and Regional Hospital. Other than that we are a mill town. So get used to the idea.

I think that stating there will be an economic impact of $70-90 Million is a bit of a stretch. This number was probably picked out of the air and has no relation to fact.

Personally riding around on diesel burning busses, and having people stand around in winter garb waving at the busses, borders on the foolish. However dont let me stop you.

Have a nice day.

I'll get my snow blower out. but hey, go PG go.

Well i think it's a great thing that this could be coming to P.G :) Bout time the spot lights are on us :)

Yippeeeee!!! Lets spend millions of taxpayers dollars to inflate the wallets of a few businesses. Sounds pretty normal to me.

Oh for gods sake...it's people who don't want any change that has made this town so slow in the uptake off the 21st century!...and NO PG is NOT a mill town anymore...it is much more diverse than it was...the mill supported our family as a child and it still does as an adult so be assured Palopu that I am quite used to that fact!

Yes, we have mills. So it is a mill town.

But we also have a University which is large relative to the population, so it is also a University town.

It is also a service town. It provides services to the region of smaller towns around it. No others are that on the scale that PG does.

The ratios of those major elements change over time. And the number of elements also tend to increase over time. It is the natural progression of a healthy, growing human settlement and indicators of such, much more so than population growth is.
=============================

As far a toques in August. Get real!!

Here are the 2011 Halifax sports in the games that do not require winter clothing:

Archery(Indoor)
Artistic Gymnastics
Badminton
Boxing (Male)
Judo
Ringette (Female)
Squash
Synchronized Swimming (Female)
Table Tennis
Target Shooting (Air Pistol and Air Rifle)
Wheelchair Basketball (Mixed)

I would suggest, however, that you do not show up with rifles and/or pistols. :-)

Yuck, I hope we don't win. Enough is enough of this BS. All our tax dollars going down the drain again so that a very few can watch a bunch of athletes skate around in circles or ski down a hill. BIG DEAL! Most don't care. I'm so fed up with my tax dollars going to crap like this. And yes, it is a mill town. Get used to it.

The University may be large relative to the Population, however the fact is, the best we have been able to do student wise at this University is 2500 FTE Students. One must remember that the Full Time Equivelant figure represents students from all the campuses such as Kitimat, Terrace, Valemount, Quesnel, etc; etc; etc;, So although the number appears to be high, the fact of the matter is there are not very many full time students at this University. I think the graduating numbers for the last 4/5 years runs between 600 to 800. So that would be a realistic figure for full time students. The balance would be part timers.

So whats wrong with being a Mill Town. ie; 3 Pulp Mills appox 1200 employees. 5 Planer Mills 1250 employees (rough) The transportation, and distribution industry relies on the Mills to survive. Mills North, South, and West of Prince George is what keeps the local business's going. You might note that they are all lumber mills; ie; Isle Pierre, Clear Lake, Engen, Burns Lake, Houston, Dunkley, MacKenzie, etc; etc;.

We could mention the Mines, however at this point in time we have ;probably three mines in the area that are actually producing. Ie; Endako Mines, Kemess, Blue Pearl (Houston) and thats about it.

You would have no need at all for Transportation or distribution, if all you had to offer was, Schools, Hospitals, Tourists, University, etc; These business would all go broke without the Mills. You cant make a red cent in the manufacturing, distribution, and transportation industry, from Government, or Government owned facilities. The schools, college, universitys, Government etc; all rely on taxpayers dollars to meet their payrolls. Take away the industry (Mills) and you take away the tax dollars.

So we are a Mill Town pure and simple. So enjoy yourself.

This was the mill town. As with all good things, things change and the old timers go into denial :-)

http://i34.tinypic.com/w0tf1g.jpg

1. I asked them not to raise my taxes. They raised my taxes.

2. I asked them to fight against the HST. They said No.

3. I asked them not to increase garbage rates. They raised the rates.

4. I asked them to pave the roads and fill the pot holes. They said No.

5. I asked them to reduce costs of local Government. They did not reduce costs.


They asked my to stand on the sidewalk in a Toque with a hockey stick in my hand, and wave at a bus. I said NO.

Nice picture Gus. Looks like it was around the Mid 1950's. Not much has changed since then.

Lets not forget that in 1975 the City took in.

1. South Ft George
2. Pineview
3. Hart Highway
4. VLA District (Pine St.)
5. Some other areas.

Without taking in those areas the City would still be about the same. In 1971 Prince Georges population was 33,101. The 1976 Census shows Prince George Population as 59,929, an increase of 26,828 due to amalgamation. It is now approx 75,000 so we have an increase of 15,071 over the last 34 years. Or to put it another way, an average increase of 443 people per year.

This is humungus growth. Hang on to your hats, we are in for a hell of a ride if this trend continues.

We could have a population of 90,071 by the year 2044.

Those with their head in the sand about what this City really is reminde me of the guy at the lake last weekend. One foot on the dock and one foot in the boat. The whole weekend he was trying to decide what to do complaining about everything. He ended up just talking to himself for 48 hours and never enjoyed anything.

I see you have finally come to gripes with your problem Runner46. You have your head in the sand. Pull it out for Gods Sake, look around, see whats going on.

If you think that a population increase of 443 people per year is significant, or an indication of growth then you have a serious problem.

This City is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. There are thousands like it all over North America, and hundreds of thousands around the world.

Vancouver's population increased 167,853 during the same period 1976-2006

Kamloops increase 16,328
Kelown increase 47,511
Nanaimo increase 31,623
Surrey increase 247,838
Maple Ridge increase 36,717.

There are a great many towns and cities in BC that have no growth, or a decrease in population. This is just a fact of life. They are all hoping that some new industry will come to town, or that tourism will pull them out of the slump, however at this point in time nothing is happening.

It is pointless to go around pretending that you are living in a City that has great potential, when in fact we have very little if anything going on that would support that sort of thinking.

At some point the Government will run out of ideas on what to spend money on, and then we will grind to a halt.

If we could get some real diversification as opposed to Goverment projects, and get some private money, as opposed to Government money invested in this burg, then maybe we could go forward, however at this time we are in a decline pure and simple.

It's lucky for us that grumpy old naysayers like Palopu are in the huge minority in this town. Funny enough they all seem to populate these boards which makes for some hilarious reading!

The grumpy old naysayers like Palopu have the facts to back up what they are saying.

Dispute the population figures if you can.

Dispute the lack of growth if you can.

Dispute the fact that there is a definate downturn in the economy and jobs in the last 10 years if you can.

I can easily show you where 5000 jobs have disapeared in this town over th last 15 years.

I suspect that most of those who disagree with me have no facts what so ever to back up their arguments. They operate on the assumption that wishful thinking will somehow morph into action, and the action will create some sort of growth. Highly unlikely.

Most people who think that every thing is roses in this town are on the Government payroll, and have been for sometime. People who have worked in the various industries (real workers) know that there are some serious problems ahead for this town, if something doesnt happen very soon.

The lay off of 15 Workers at Clear Lake is just the tip of the iceburg.

Our whole economy is based on exports, and primarily exports to the USA, and mostly lumber The US housing market will stay in the dumps for at least another two years. This does not bode well for a town that is dependent of lumber exports.

For those who think that China is the answer to all our problems, I say, wake up and smell the flowers.

WOW Palopu it appears PG has zero hope and it's truly amazing these "types" of towns don't just shut down...if those other cities are so great get out of dodge and let us positive thinkers live in denial or dillusions in peace...your "type" I just don't have time for...get a life...go to work, and remember we live in just a mill town...which by the way, was never said once...perhaps it should have been phrased as "PG is no longer JUST a mill town"...something is definitely up your butt and I'm guessing it has nothing to do w/ these posts...

Palopu

Get it through your thick skull....

YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ALL (or even a slight majority) OF THE CITIZENS OF PRINCE GEORGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If they did, you would be mayor!

There are other people in this town and alot of of us disagree with you!!! Don't you ever get sick of spewing the same dribble over and over? Don't you have anything better to do then post a complaint to every single story on this site? Get a life, move, or get out from behind that key board and do something! My god you are boring! I don't even read your posts anymore....the first thing that comes to mind is wah wah wah.

The lasting legacy will be higher taxes to pay for the event and the 1/2 million already blown on this fiasco. Go Kamloops Go!!!!!!!

I am not old nor grumpy,maybe cranky,but I have to agree with quite a few of Palopu's points.This doesn't mean that I hope PG does poorly when in competition with other cities for events.The reason I have been here for so many years,is "that" optimism that PG is on the verge of taking off.I just think some of the overly positive people need a guided tour around town,just to see what is going on in PG.People generally don't know that something needs to be fixed if they are unaffected by anything.Once you can see and figure out what the problem is then it can be worked on.(Prime Example:Downtown)

Dan Rogers is right, you can't go wrong with a hockey stick downtown...or any other weapon, especially at night.
Go, Kamloops! Let them blow their tax money. They claim to be the Tournament City anyway. Let them live up to the title.

What if they are wrong about all the economic benefits to PG?
Seems this is exactly what was said about the Olympics?
Now,everyone is waiting for the economic benefits to kick in for B.C.and the Campbell crew won't tell us how far in the hole we REALLY are.(can you say HST?)
These projects are corporate driven,and in the end,what the taxpayers think will be moot.
If the big boys want this,they are going to get it.
Just like the Olympics.

There will be many small towns becoming smaller. The goal of some governments is to have the masses in larger cities. You just have to look at the smaller communities loss of hospitals and schools and it becomes clear. What are the prime things people want in a community? Schools, hospitals and shopping. Prince George may be one of those cities where lots of people will move to for jobs. There lies the problem, where are the jobs? Prince George has one of the highest tax rates with increases every year for the last 4 years. House taxes are more than they are in the south. I know because my parents are looking for a house there. There is also the problem of the stink and air quality here, unfortunately PG is not on the top of the list for desirable places to relocate to. Prince George is losing people every day and there is not many taking their places. We have a city council who wants to spend money on an art center, paved 11klm trail and new police station when they should be tightening the belt. The city is 111 million dollars in debt! That in itself should say it all. It is cold here for many months and utilities are on the up rise. Gas is always more here than anywhere else. In reality PG is an expensive place to live for what it has to offer. The fishing is great but the brown water with no beaches does not draw the swimming tourists. Tourist destination? Not at all unless you are a hunter or outdoorsman of some kind and even that can be found in much nicer places.
The only way that things will change for PG is when people face the reality of the city itself and what it has to offer. This is not a tourist destination and never will be. It is a good place to live if you have a job and you do not mind taking a chance on your health in regards to the air quality. The downtown is a total embarrassment and all the money in the world will not fix it. We have two prisons here and PG is where all the people in the north have to come to deal with addictions and mental illness. The problem is when they are released they have no bus ticket home so they end up with the gangs or on the street in some capacity. It has one of the highest crime rates. It is a ugly town with very few architecturally pleasing buildings.

Prince George needs young, new blood with vision making decisions. The old gang is not cutting the mustard and they have put us so far in debt that the interest alone must be outrageous. I hope for nothing but the best for PG but the reality is we may be in big trouble.

Holy cow! IMO, you're worse than Palopu! Why you live here if it's so disgusting I can fathom...something is keeping you here. Why don't you move to those "nicer" places with so much more to offer! And downtown has improved a ton! There is lots of nice places to go there i.e. restaurants and shops...I don't notice the pulp mill smell but I have lived here for my whole life. Have you seen the air quality in Toronto? LA? Hello...oh I gues they have more to offer so bad air is ok...Crime rates might be high, but I think crime is in every city/ town. You say we shouldn't spend money on a new police station, trails, art ctr etc...well those are the kinds of things that make a city nice and attractive! You can't have it both ways buddy!

Palopu, use this as a better common indicator of the university stats.
http://www.aucc.ca/publications/stats/enrol_e.html

The Association of Universities and Colleges puts out some data for the entire country that provides a common methodology across the country. FTE are actually a bit more difficult to calculate since they are in part program dependent. The total number of hours for a meds student, for instance, are different than the total number of hours for a general arts program student.

Tthe figures show full time for undergrads and grads and part time for the same grouping.

When you do a bit of number crunching you will find the following for UNBC for the fall of 2009 figures.
FT undergrads = 2,030
FT grads = 410
Total FT = 2,440
PT undergrads = 990
PT grads = 120
Total PT = 1,110
When you factor that through, the FTE should come out to roughly 3,000

Sorting that with the rest of the 81 “universities” in Canada, UNBC is the 57th largest on FT alone and 58th on combination (simple numbers additive) of FT+PT.

Now comes the important part and one of the reasons why UNBC has managed to develop an excellent reputation in a VERY short time as far as universities go.

Sorting by numbers of FT graduate students, it moves to 44th position.

And one more sort for the percentage of graduate students of total FT students it comes up at 16.8%, putting it in 24th place.

The big name universities that have a higher percentage of FT grad students include, Sherbrooke, Montreal, Laval, SFU, McGill, UBC, Queens, Dalhousie, Calgary, UofT , Quebec, Concordia.

It's like Prince George itself. Its quality, not size … :-)

"Prince George has one of the highest tax rates"

WRONG!!!!!

on top of that it has close to THE LOWEST BUSINESS property tax rates in the province. If you want your residential property tax to go lower, get them to tax businesses higher.

The fact that our taxes are lower than the average in BC shows in every nook and cranny in the operations of this place.

This does not change the more often you beat that into your head. I have posted figures often enough about this so go look them up in old posts of mine.

"Have you seen the air quality in Toronto? LA?"

I have. It has changed tremendously in both cities for the better over the last 3 decades.

``I don't notice the pulp mill smell``shesmiles! just goes to show that you dont notice a lot of other things too!

I think IMO has some valid observations.

Some things to remember:

1. people's observations should not be ridiculed or dismissed. When one takes a survey of shoppers' experiences, one does not dismiss the bad experiences if one wants to improve the experience for shoppers.

2. One does not tell shoppers to go somewhere else either. They may have some very overpowering reason why they come to shop at your place anyway, despite the bad experiences. Once the fine balance is upset, however, they are gone.

3. I assume we all want to make this a better city. Well, then you have to listen to the good and bad. Then build on the good and address the bad!

On my part, there is no dispute with IMO regarding:

1. air quality
2. city building quality
3. the population drop
4. the city is close to its maximum reasonable debt load
5. Quality lake beaches are rare and river access is the chits
6.Not only are urban tourist destinations nil to nothing, but our services to tourists are lousy - wrong places chosen for info centres for 20+ years.
7. The only way that things will change for PG is when people face the reality of the city itself and what it has to offer.

Others I have a different opinion on:
1. property tax rates
2. cold is bad (this is warmer than most other places in Canada and that is why a large percentage of long term residents that came here are from other parts of Canada

I have to go with Pal and IMO. They have made some good points. Aside from air quality PG is still a good place to live.

The big problem is at City Hall and the management. Its all about building an empire and make work projects. Can you imagine standing on the street at this time of year in your winter garments! This is the sort of thinking that prevails at City hall and is typical of the airy fairy dreams they have.

I cant agree with the idea that we are not over taxed. The annual release that the City makes on who is taxed and how much for 2009 they do not show us but on former releases they have shown that 25% comes from commercial properties, 17% from industrial and the homeowner contributes 53% to the City. If I remember correctly the industrial contribution was lowered last year.

When you go to the website of other cities like Naniamo, Kamloops and Red Deer AB which has a similar climate to ours and about the same size. When you compare the value of an equivalent home the taxes in Prince George are a lot more then those I have mentioned. If there is another standard to make comparison with I don�t know.
Cheers

Yah Gus, so has the air quality in PG! And it's going to get better as Canfor has just spent millions on this jsut recently! I can't believe you all think so little of the city you live in! OMG, Kamloops is no better! Why is it better? Because it gets super hot...ewwww...they can have that! You are all so synical and negative it blows my mind! You think these issues are unique to us, well they aren't! Move away and quit bitchin'! It's getting VERY old!

It is people like shesmiles and their attitude why things never change in this city! The answer to everything is MOVE because one points out things they DONT WANT TO HEAR! Maybe some of us see things for what they are even IF they love the city. Reality is, it has its problems and fixing them does not involve only looking at the nice things.

I haven't read anyone with any solutions to these problems that you seem to think are only in PG, I'm just saying that no one says anything positive - EVER and it's tiring!

Wellllll.... it isn't much.... but I did wake up this morning to a spectacular sunrise and the intoxicating, unforgettable smell of freshly cut sweet clover and the delicate, soft touch of my mate's paw on my outstretched arm.....

V.

Oh my! If we all stand out there in our winters we are sure to win the bid!! *Mortified look What if they put this on television? We will be the brunt of some pretty good laughter I'm sure. I find this a really really bad idea. Sorry! Professional? NOT!

RRrabbitt is refreshing :}

Checked the taxes for Prince George (my residence) Naniamo, Kamloops and Red Deer AB. These cities are around the same size as PG. Each of these cities have a tax estimator for your property. So it�s a cinch to find what your taxes will be and how much they have increased from the previuos year. Strange PG does not offer that service and as I have pointed out they no longer tell us what the tax share is for industry, commcerial, or residence.

Taxes are based on the assmment value of my home which is $213,000.00. Figures are gross figures and do not take into account the home owner grants. The reason I selected Red Deer is of the similar climate to ours.

Prince George...........$2346.80
Naniamo....................1844.93
Kamloops...................1684.49
Red Deer.....................1138.47
Cheers

$111 million dollars in debt? Thanks, but no thanks. Maybe when we get our debt paid down, our roads back in reasonable shape, more businesses opening up, and a more business friendly city hall. Our public campgrounds are at Walmart and the casino parking lot. This is and always will be a "gritty little mill town". Despite that I have lived here for over twenty years and would not live anywhere else. Kelowna is just a small Vancouver. The population numbers at 16 & 97 have always said 81,000. No truth in advertising? I guess there are no borders when figuring out that bogus number. One more thing, shouldn't city council be working on an affordable alternative to that undersized ancient fire hall next to the Coliseum? City council can't see past the next election. Bunch of no account ninnies with our check book at the ready for their whims.

Thank you Retired! My parents were absolutely shocked at the difference while looking for a home in the south. When you look at the sale sheet for a property the taxes are listed. They said that most were approximately 800.00 lower than PG. They have a 300,000.00 home here and were looking in the same bracket there as well. People need to face the reality of the state of Prince George if they want to bring forth change. The only way to get people to stop moving away and relocating here is to fix things like this. City hall has to stop gouging home owners year after year after year or more people will leave. What bothers me the most about the constant increases is that we are 111 million dollars in debt? Something is very wrong and it seems like they will never have enough! This goes for all levels of government, they are all in debt! Yet they give themselves raises? If the country, province or city is in the red NO RAISES. End of story!

"This city is 11 million dollars in debt. Enough spending until we are in the black again. DUHHHHH!"

Nope, last I read, just a short while ago, this city is 116 million dollars in debt. Try to rmember that we loaned Terasen only 74 million (which we had to borrow).
Never underestimate the stupidity of city council. I'm sure they will go ahead with the games as long as Shirly and Pat show up on Monday for the 'winter games support parade'.

Let's all show up with hockey sticks and toque's. NOT A CHANCE! Hey, Dano were 116,000,000.00 dollars in DEBT! Hello give yourselves another raise why don't you! Hey shesmells I too have lived here all my life and this dirty town has done nothing but gone down hill, Vancouver General will even tell you that. I will never go downtown again unless I'm armed. The only thing that has ever grown in this town is Crime, Drugs, Crackheads, Thieving, Murder, Prostitutes, Gangs and Pawnshops! Shirley and Pat all you guys are, are over paid figure heads who DONOT represent the average tax payer. Thanks for letting our jobs go to China, you both should pack your bags, buy yourselves a one way ticket and don't come back on us!