Have we ever seen a tax go away? Like the temporary war measure tax "income tax" or the pay down the deficit "GST" or the one time temporary tax from the city to repair roads.

Soon we will just give all of our pay cheques to all forms of government and they will give us enough money back buy groceries.

All taxes are here to stay and will continue to rise while minimum wage and other wages will remain the same. Just dig a deeper hole.

It is not so much fighting the GST but anti liberal. The people who voted for the fiberals are made about beng so easly taken in. They are emabarressed and mad.

Bill Vander Zalm is nothing but a scam but you see people are stupid. I never signed no petition. I know how politics works. The rest of these people that signed this thing are the ones that never vote.

acrider you forgot to mention we will have to have a number tattooed to our forehead to receive anything back!

I signed the petition. I have never missed voting in an election (federal, provincial, or municipal) since I was eligible to vote.

To me, the issue goes beyond the HST. There has to be a message sent to all politicians, no matter what party they belong to: you cannot lie to us and get away with it. That's why I signed the petition, that's why I will vote for recall. This goes beyond party politics-this is an opportunity for the voters to take back the democratic process. A few successful recalls and the government might remember that they work for us.

The Zalm is ok, remember a Shovel for some of Surrey finest, the only one in Power who said Beer is to costly for the Working Man, mind you he never lowered it, maybe the Time in Office was to short, ha,ha,ha.
NDP,Lib,Con all want Power and all your Money and nothing will change!

the point is to show these polititions who they work for, and if they lie cheat and steal we will fire them.
The next group that gets voted in will know if you screw us over we will fire you.

I agree Flash and Boudicca. It's karma time for these despicable liars. It's high time that politicians became accountable to the people that pay their way and who they are supposed to represent. B.C can and will send a message to the rest of Canada. Keep on keeping on. The people will prevail!

Keep voting them out until you come across the ones you like. Meanwhile keep yer wallets open.

People forget that in 1991 Saskatchewan's government imposed the HST on their electorate. What happened? It cost them the election (since it was introduced before an election year).

So, it shows us that provinces do have the power to buck the HST, all it takes is actual representation from the people who win our political popularity contests.

She better recall the HST if she knows what's good for her.

"The next group that gets voted in will know if you screw us over we will fire you. "

That's why the next group doesn't promise to undo or change the BCR and HST deals! They know that they will keep their promise NOT to undo what's already done!

They also don`t promise to re-open (or NOT close) any schools except that they would fund the schools instead of the pupils - whatever that means!

Remember the flip-flop on the Carbon Tax.

They also know that one can screw the people over for a whole decade and NOT get fired during that whole time...fudget budgets notwithstanding.

Some of you need to consider that paying for services we demand is part of what a government is elected to do.

Of course if you were born before say 1965, then you believe that spending the money of future generations (your own kids and grandkids) is what politicians were elected to do.

More services! Less taxes!

I love how the various NDP supporters on this site actually believe this line of crap and call everyone else sheeple. What color is the sky on your planet?

I am considering giving myself a lobotomy so that I can vote NDP and think that its a good idea too! I will still have the capacity to get a union job picking medical services off the medical services trees that Carol James has planned!

Hi PrinceGeorge

That's point we need to make. When only 50% of the eligible population actually votes, all parties think they can get away with everything. Time for us to stop treating democracy as a spectator sport.

I sincerely believe that all of us have an obligation to hold any government's feet to the fire on their decisions. The petition and any recall campaigns are the next logical steps to remind all parties that they work for us. I'm not stating that one party is better than another-I am saying that if voters get involved, governments will have to think twice before making policy decisions.

Well about time someone said it thanks Flash. To mean I think folks should get their head out of their ass and vote then we won't have these problems anymore right. We could always vote in a Nazi party and have no rights at all. Maybe thats what Canadians want a dictatorship.

Watching Global tonight and it appears that the Campbell Liberals DID lie and the HST WAS on the radar!
And that was from Keith Baldry, who is usually pretty much Liberal/Campbell biased.
Who would have thought...lying Campbell Liberals...say it isn't so!
When they said they didn't lie...they were lying about that too!
RECALL!

Hi Flash, you said:"...all parties think they can get away with everything."

I agree. It's nothing new. As long as THAT is understood by everyone. Voter apathy is mostly the fault of the politicians, imho. I have always voted in every election, federal, provincial and municipal. I believe very little of any promises made during an election campaign and I usually vote for the lesser evil, as judged by previous non-performance or mis-management.

Sad state of affairs, really. I never really like or enthusiastically approve of those I vote for.

For me it is just a matter of trying to keep those out who I know would make an even bigger mess.

One day I may get tired of that too and just sit at home having a beer instead of going out to cast my anti-evil vote.

Born in BC, What the hell does the provincial Liberal government deficit of 2.4 Billion dollars have to do with the NDP?

It is the Liberal government in BC that is spending like drunken sailors, your children and grandchildrens money.

The NDP are no where near the provinces bank account.

Which party is lowering taxes Born in BC, but only for a select few.

I think if you check Born in BC, you may have already had that lobotomy.

Flash, Boudicca, Junco, are on the right track. There is a hell of a lot more to Politics, and democracy than sitting on your ass, crying the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

Ben should have slept in this morning, then he would have heard the news in regards to the Liberals being involved with the HST prior to the last election. No surprises there.

The HST is not here to stay, unless we allow it to stay. We have to get away from this defeatist attitude that we cant do anything about it. We can, and we must do something about it.

If people would stop to think for a moment they would realize that if we were to recall 6 MLA's as quickly as possible after November 15 this would put huge pressure on the Government. If they did nothing and we recalled 6 more the Liberals would no longer be in power, and the NDP would form the Government.

However the NDP would only have a majority in the Legislature until the bye elections are run. The bye elections have to take place within 90 days of the recall. So in effect we would have NDPERS running in bye elections trying to get re-elected. If they dont promise to recall the HST what is the chance of them getting elected.

The Liberals would have little chance of winning the bye elections also. So we are then given an opportunity to vote for a third party who would state quite clearly that they would get rid of the HST. If the third party was to get 6 seats out of the 12 bye elections, they would control the legislature, which at that point would be a minority Government until the Election of 2013.

So it is possible to get rid of the HST. Dont listen to the nay sayers and the really negative people who post on this site.

Do what we have to do which is support the recall in these ridings when and if they have one. And get out and join the rally that is being planned for the 25th of this month.

The Provincial Government is treating us like a bunch of morons. They beleive that we will sit on our asses and do nothing about this issue.

We have a choice. We can prove them right, or prove them wrong. You will never get another chance to get involved in an issue as important as this, so for crying out loud, do something besides bitch.

Its time the people of British Columbia made a statement.

Ben might think that this HST issue has no traction, however he has been involved in issues in the past, and he also knows that people can and do make a difference.

If it hadnt been for people like Ben fighting Alcan to save the Nechako River we would have nothing there to-day but a trickle of water. There are other issues also, so lets not for one minute think that we can do nothing.

Clearly they all need to go to jail. They didn't just lie. They committed a crime willfully and knowingly campaigning on a lie while in power to stay in power defrauding the voters of an informed vote.

This is now beyond recall, and criminal charges need to be laid... and each and every one of the liberals that is standing behind this fraud needs to face charges of treason against the democratic process. This is the most serious and blatant abuse of our electoral system in the countries history.

Furthermore I think they should also loose their ill gotten pensions when it is found out they committed fraud to obtain them.

Red flags should be going off right now with the new revelations that are coming to light. Even if you are a liberal supporter, and even if you do benefit from the HST as implemented, and even if you vote for 'business' values... then I would say even you benefit from a rule of law democracy, and as such should be as offended as anyone that the BC liberals would go to these lengths to pervert our democracy. If the BC liberals can allow for this standard to be the norm then what stops an anti business government or worse yet from using the same standard to achieve ends through backroom deals made in the dark that negatively effect you and trample on your right to an open and informed election?

This can be reversed if we elect a free enterprise party that represents the values of a democratic process, and with a legitimate representation of the people we can use the constitution to up hold our provincial right to determine provincial taxation policy... the HST should be finished as unconstitutional. Clearly we are all relying on VanderZalm and his court challenge for that now, but we don't have to wait for the courts if we have the political will to exercise our provincial sovereignty in this matter.

The HST is unconstitutional, and the people that implemented it did it through fraud to the voter. It has no life under the rule of law. The PST can simply be brought back as it was, and we can have a real debate in this province between the people and not the hidden bureaucrats to decide what our taxation policy should be, and how the PST can be reformed to account for what will be taxed, and whether or not business should be able to collect a remittance for their expenditures during the course of doing business.

Small business should have a say in the matter, working people should have a say in the matter, fixed income people should have a say in the matter, and young families should have a say in the matter... and this is our right to expect this... in a democracy this should be the basis of any new taxation policy... the rule of law has no room for fraudulent elections influenced by big corporations (ie the forest companies CEO letter last election threatening the people of BC to vote liberal), and the back room deals quid pro quo of the BC liberals.

Folks we seriously need to see people going to jail over this... its much more than just an issue for recall IMO.

"If they dont promise to recall the HST what is the chance of them getting elected."

I think more important is the question: "If they get elected, what is the chance of them undoing the HST". Nil to none. They might promise, but they will promise something they cannot do. So, we are back to having to be mindful of hollow promises. Which puts us all back into politics again .... when push comes to shove ... the hollow promises will come out, I don't care which party makes them. They all do.

The only reason I vote these days is so no one can tell me that I did not get the government I wanted because I did not vote. I have a clear conscience when I say that I voted.

AND I can also say that my single vote did not switch the outcome of the election. If I would not have voted because I was ill or in Sri Lanka, everything would still have turned out the same.

Also, unlike the USA, I never got to vote for the Premier. He does not reside in my riding. So, I blame the people in Point Grey.

Why can those we elect as MLAs not undo the HST, Gus? If this is indeed so, then it is a tacit admission that we're wasting our time bothering to vote for anyone at all. That some 'power' other than those we elect to represent us really calls the shots. Who, or what, is that 'power'?

Now I'm quite familiar with the argument that because the HST was enacted Federally, the BC government, no matter who forms it, cannot change a Federally enacted law.

But it has also been continually inferred that the BC government has the authority to determine what the tax rate for the Provincial portion of the HST is. So what, if anything, prevents the BC government from setting that rate at 0%, effectively negating the HST?

Perhaps before any further speculation over which government can, or cannot, do what, we should all see the FULL text of just what kind of agreement Gordon Campbell's regime has supposedly subjected us to. In a properly functioning democracy, that should be available to the public.

Yet, so far, I've not seen the full text printed anywhere. I've only heard bits and pieces of what's supposed to be in it. Perhaps Ben, or even you yourself, Gus, who seem to be quite adept at finding things on the Internet, could give us the full text of what we're actually committed to?

Gus. I was being specific to the Bye Elections that might take place because of recalled MLA's. My sense is that it would be difficult for either a NDP, or Liberal candidate to run in a bye election that came about because of a re-call because of the HST, and not promise to get rid of the HST.

If they didnt support recinding the HST then they would have a hard time getting elected,. In addition it would be a great opportunity to get Carole James to take a stand on this issue.

Remember that under this scenario the NDP would have to win the By Elections to stay in power. I see this as a Golden opportunity for a third party to come up the middle and get the balance of power.

Theoretically it could all be done by this time next year, and we could have some sort of coalition Government.

It all depends on the number of successful recalls that take place, and of course that is a tough one.

Socredible, I agree with the lowering of the percentage that gets returned to the province part of the process.

I have not read the agreement. Don't even know where it is. Maybe there is a summary of salient points somewhere on the net. Have not bothered to look for it.

But I have stated elsewhere on here in the last few days that they should lower it from 7% to 2%. More realistically probably to 3 to 4% to come out to about the same total effect as it was before. I realize that some things would still be higher, such as restaurant meals, etc. but, on average, the effect should be about the same to the consumer.

Whenever taxes are shifted there will be some people who will be affected more than others. Personally, I do not like the shift in the first place.

There is ONE party, being ignored by the media, all of them, which has a platform of direct democracy, easier recalls and initiatives from the first sitting, and has openly said that the HST will be repealed.
We are the fourth largest party in BC despite the media not giving us an inch.
We are BC Refederation.

Here is the agreement for Ontario which would be founded on similar principles but vary in some of the details.

[url]http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/2009/citca.html[url]

The reason I put that here is because the BC one is a bit more difficult to find.

I thought I had it with this site which has a link to the agreement. But it has since been changed to a dumbed down version and commercial of the benefits of the HST. I do not need that kind of chit from my government!!!

http://policymonitor.ca/financial-regulation/canada-and-bc-sign-hst-implementation-agreement

there is a hyperlink at the bottom of the news release.

I will continue my search for a few more minutes.

"has openly said that the HST will be repealed"

I just posted on here that every political party "openly" states stuff.

My test is simple when something like that is "openly" stated.

1. How will it be done?
2. When will it be done?
3. How much will it cost to do it?
4. List 5 positive effects of the change.
5. List 5 negative effects of the change.
6. Identify the risks of it not being doable.

That's good for a start. :-)

In other words, does whoever is "opnely" stating something know what he/she is talking about. Is that person or organization credible. Or are they just selling some more tonic at a carnival that will cure everything?

That document, file name "bc_citca_nov09.pdf"
sure has disappeared from tons of links.

But, here it is. Looks like they had some problems formatting it to PDF file format.

http://hst.blog.gov.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/bc_citca_nov09.pdf

On a quick skim through, it appears that Annex B is where BC has the most flexibility in providing "rebates" in several more areas.

For instance, since the restaurant industry is quickly definable, they could exempt them from paying HST altogether and become responsible for making up the difference of the 5% GST that the Feds want out of that deal to ensure their part of the tax take stays the same as before HST implementation.

At least that is the way I read it on first pass through it.

Campbell and his cronies are now getting millions from private sales of autos now that the GST is applicable. The budget projected hundreds of millions from this increase in taxes alone.

Hansen, Campbell, and all the other liberals need to go over the latest revelations concerning discussion of the HST. LIES ARE ALL THEY SEEM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING.

RECALL THIS FALL!!!!!!!!

Thanks for finding that link, Gus. It seems that we've even signed away the right to change the rate of the Provincial component of the HST for the next two years. So it's stuck at 7% until at least July 1st, 2012. For any Provincial government to enter into such a surrender of our already limited sovereignty is nothing short of traitorous to the citizens of BC.

I have a good "Recall Ramsey" bumper sticker. Never used. Can I trade for a new one?