Ben - first of all, neither I nor most Fight HST supporters are running for anything. We're working to get rid of the disastrous HST - and just like we successfully used the Initiative process we are now planning to use Recall to pressure government to drop this tax. Hopefully the premier will come to his senses and give BCers a fair, democratic and quick vote on the HST - that's preferable to Recall.

Ben is right on this one. Fight HST may have started out well intentioned but it was quickly coopted by the political left.

And the propaganda and discrediting begins. I cannot speak for Chris Delany or Vander Zalm but I as a canvasser find this post insulting. The 700 thousand citizens of BC did not sign the petition for any other reason than forcing government to remove the HST. We have no ulterior motives other to keep more of OUR HARD EARNED MONEY.

Furthermore elections BC screened and granted Canvassers their canvasser abilities not Vander Zalm or any of his helpers.
Most of us are hard working people, elderly, students and the sick. This government lied and has made life difficult for each and every one of us with their cuts, fees and taxes. It is a slap in our faces that the corporations get what we the people deserve. We pay their over bloated wages and pensions and GOVERNMENT is suppose to work for us.

Ben why don't you do some real investigation and find out what Gordon Campbell was doing meeting with the Bilderberg group this last June?

IMO says:
"The 700 thousand citizens of BC did not sign the petition for any other reason than forcing government to remove the HST. We have no ulterior motives"

Followed by:
"why don't you do some real investigation and find out what Gordon Campbell was doing meeting with the Bilderberg group this last June?"

hmm - sounds like an ulterior motive already, no?

No but I think we need to know exactly what is going on. Dont you?

I think a lot of the loss of steam is due to the shift from fighting the HST to recalling MLAs. I for one support the fight against the tax. However, despite supporting the tax which is likely because they need to tow the party line, I think Pat and Shirley have done a lot of good for Prince George and the north. If I didn’t believe that these individuals have done their best to represent our interests then I would support a recall. The HST is a major issue but it is not the only issue and I am not interested in sending politicians packing that, in my opinion, are the best people for the job. (That statement should get some interesting results!)

I feel the questions are: would a successful recall change the face of party politics so that our local MLAs could reflect the wants of their constituents regardless of party position? I find this unlikely. Would replacing our MLAs with independents that are not shackled by party politics result in them being able to adequately represent our interests in an effective manner? I find this just as unlikely. We have enough issues in the north that we need strong voices that have the backing of a major party, not independent backbenchers.

I look forward to voting against the HST. However, I think others feel the same about the recalls and I would not predict the steam built from the fight HST campaign translating into enough support to unseat our MLAs in this area.

If the HST is amended (lower it by a point or two, get a bigger HST refund to low income earners, etc) the whole picture will change. And I agree with the last post that recalling good MLAs like Bell and Bond would not accomplish anything. Why try to punish them for not going against their own party, something which no NDP MLA dared to do during the whole decade of the nineties, although there were plenty of occasions when they could have demonstrated some disagreement?

It was the Premier who introduced the HST - why don't the recall proponents start by recalling HIM first of all?

At the same time they ought to recall James who has already thrown in the towel, saying that if elected the NDP would neither change or eliminate the HST nor would the NDP ever allow a referendum on anything that has to do with tax policy!!!

Some democracy! She practically closed the only other option some voters thought they had!

The whole recall thing "is an effort at trying to re-play the last election" ...as Ben so eloquently stated.

Yes shockingly politics is all political and generally a waste of time. Its about some bozo who cant do much else convince us all that he/she should represent us. Shockingly these bozos dont end up having much vision or imagination or 'guts' and we end up with the same old same old.

The ONLY time a political party does anything worth doing is when they do something unpopular. It doesnt take a brilliant tactician to realize that decreasing taxes and increasing wages is popular, but that mentality is what got us in debt. In such significant debt that no future generation will ever pay it off.

So remember when you vote for YOUR present, your doing it at the cost of your KIDS future. How do you feel (assuming your in your 30s and 40s) about what the people in their 50s and 60s did to us? Dont like it do you? So now we should do it to the next generations? NO. Time to take a stand and sacrifice for our future generations. Dig deep, because if it was easy the baby boomers would have stepped up, but they didnt, and here we are.

"Fighting the last election over again"? Now there's a helluva good idea. I'd like nothing better than a mulligan on the last provincial election, only this time knowing that the budget was off by a mile and that the HST was clearly on the Liberal's "radar"! Who wouldn't want the opportunity for a do-over if they'd voted Liberal and then found out they'd been scammed?
Sadly we can't go back in time with what we know now, but maybe recall is the next best thing. Heck, maybe it's better! Why, hell yes, maybe we can communicate our discontent not just to the Liberals but to all parties and potential political parties! Maybe we can send a collective message: We really do value democracy and we will fight for it! We will hold politicians accountable for both their promises and their lies, regardless of their political stripe.
I agree that Carol James is a major disappointment and if there was an election tomorrow, I'd be hard pressed to cast my vote in one direction or the other if for no other reason than the fact that I don't trust ANY of our provincial politicians to do the right thing.
We need taxes to pay for the social safety net and services like roads, airports, etc. but these are things that busineses profit from as well, so why shouldn't they pay taxes, too? The Americans argued during the NAFTA talks that Canada was at a competitive advantage because we have socialized medicine. What does that tell you? Why should there be a two billion dollar shift from corporations on to the shoulders of the middle-class? Why are we joining the race to the bottom, vying for 3rd World status in terms of the way we care for our populace?

Born in BC:- "It doesnt take a brilliant tactician to realize that decreasing taxes and increasing wages is popular, but that mentality is what got us in debt. In such significant debt that no future generation will ever pay it off."

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If you paid off the debt you'd have virtually no 'money' left in existence, Born in BC. Do you not realise that?

A National Debt, and only to a slightly lesser degree, a Provincial Debt, is primarilly a "distributing agent". It's what puts, under our current inane system of finance, enough new credit charged to the public sector into the economy to allow existing credit charged to the private sector to be repaid.

You can cut wages and increase taxes to any extent the idiot in power who thinks that'll be a solution wants, but it won't rid you of debt. Gordon Campbell probably spoke the only true thing he's ever said when he uttered the words, "Tax cuts work." And they do. Only he obviously doesn't understand "why". Under the current financial situation going the opposite way will only increase overall debt, not rid ourselves of it.

The reason the NDP do not act like an opposition is because they are NOT! They work for the same puppet masters. It is so blatantly obvious just by their inactions in regards to everything wrong there is in our corrupt government right now. THINK ABOUT IT. Take ten minutes and actually ponder why Carol James and the NDP are so quiet. Take ten minutes and ponder why Campbell was at the last yearly Bilderberg meeting in June.

"We need taxes to pay for the social safety net and services like roads, airports, etc. but these are things that busineses profit from as well, so why shouldn't they pay taxes, too?"

Businesses do not pay taxes in Canada? Or is it only in B.C. where they don't pay? Well, one can learn a new thing or two every day, that's for sure!

There are a lot of people out there that oppose the HST typically called the "silent Majority". These people don't attend the rallies and wave the placards or get vocal about their beliefs.

Once referendum time rolls around they will show up in numbers to put an end to Campbell and his liberal cohorts HST efforts. As for recall, should it prove successful in a few constituencies it can only be the considered the peoples choice. The cards are stacked against success in any event.

It sure would be nice to have a MLA from the PG area actually represent their constituents instead of towing the party line. It seems Ft St John area is the only area in BC where the MLA was not afraid to follow the wishes of his constituents.

The Liberals can spout off about the method of introduction of the HST tax being the issue. A typical Campbell/Hansen spin. Tell the people what it really is, a shift 2 billion dollars a year from the pockets of working people into the coffers of corporate BC.

Without Bill Vander Zalm everyone would have rolled over, bitched a bit, and played dead and Campbell would have had his way with the HST. Atleast now we will have a say in the matter come referendum time.

All I say is, "thank you Bill".

"Ben why don't you do some real investigation and find out what Gordon Campbell was doing meeting with the Bilderberg group this last June?"

Let me see ....

If you are a right winger, then you would already have made your mind up that he was meeting to join the conspiracy to form a new world order in the form of a socialist one-world government.

If you are on the left, then you would have already made up your mind that he was meeting to join the conspiracy to impose capitalist domination of the world.

In either case, anything anyone would tell you, you would not listen to unless it supports your viewpoint.

:-)

Kim Jong Il!!!

I am 2 finger pecking this from Edmonton.
I just saved a whack of taxes (hst&pst). Ohyeah! Gas was only 87/l. Something about carbon taxes I think.
Thx Gordo!!

Denaljo, you should get a swiss bank account to avoid income tax as well.

http://www.somethingmustbreak.net/id147.html

I have searched the Bilderberg attendee list here and on other websites: Guess what? No Gordon Campbell!

Hmmm....

One of those urban legends .....

I would think he would not fit in with that crowd, but one never knows. That part of Spain is a nice place to go. Great beaches .... :-)

"Gas was only 87/l. Something about carbon taxes I think."

Right ...

I think it is something about having oil fields close at hand ...... but hey, why would that make a difference, eh??

Yeah! Sure sucks Gus. I mean gordo bragging about all the oil and gas money coming in so we better add a carbon tax, and no refineries in the area to bring down the price.

I doubt the oil fields have anything to do with the gas prices. We have a refinery here in Pr George and therefore no transportation costs, and our gas is higher than the outlying areas. Our gas prices are high because of ***greed***

The Liberals went to a binding referendum in Sept 2011 to try and reduce the pressure they are receiving on the HST. The problem is that even if the binding referendum is successful, they could delay implementing it until late in 2012, and even then they could recind the HST and implement a new tax at a somewhat lower rate.

In other words all they are doing is stalling for time. That is why recall is necessary. If we can recall enough MLA's to force the Liberals to move the referendum date up, or better still recall the legislature and recind the tax and reinstate the 7% PST then it would be a done deal.

For those people who would support recinding the HST but not support recall, you are taking away the only vehicle we have to keep the pressure on the Government. Recall will force them to act. Doing nothing will allow them to find away around their dilema.

Keep in mind that all the MLA's are keeping their mouths shut on this issue. You can rest assured that they have their marching orders from Campbell. By using recall we can also give them some marching orders. The question is, do we have representation or not???

Heres how the recall works.

1. Vancouver riding starts a recall on Jan 1st.

2. They have 60 days to complete the task. Assume that the recall is successful, then election BC has 42 days to count the signatures. This puts it into early May.

3. Once Elections BC confirms that the recall is a success the MLA is out of office. The Government then has 90 days to set a date for a byelection. 90 days would ;put us into early August.

4. Once the byelection date was set then of course you would have to have time for the byelection which could put us into?? Who knows??

5. The MLA who was recalled can run in the byelection if he chooses, and if he is as good as some people think, then he would probably get re-elected.

So you can see that the recall process is a good vehicle to put pressure on the Government, because for every MLA that is recalled it puts them closer to losing thier Majority. If they were to lose 11 seats in a recall they would lose the Government.

As Andrew Jackson said. **Governments yeild to pressure and it is the responsibilit of the Citizens of a Country to apply the pressure**

To not vote for recall because Pat Bell or some other MLA is a **good guy** or a **good MLA** defeats the whole purpose of trying to get rid of this tax. You may have to recall Bell/Bond to get the bigger prize. Thats what it is all about.

If Pat Bell, Shirley Bond, were loyal to their constituents, rather than to Mr **Trust Me** Campbell or Mr. **I was not aware** Hansen we would be far better off.

All we need is 5 or 6 MLA's with some gonads to stand up and say enough is enough, axe the tax. and this issue would be settled, and Campbell would be gone.

If they dont do something soon the whole bloody Liberal Party will be gone.

"I have searched the Bilderberg attendee list here and on other websites: Guess what? No Gordon Campbell!"
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That must've been a let-down, still not good enough to make the team! Poor Gordo, no matter how hard he's tries he still can't impress those he's so anxious to.

Why shouldn't a gas rich province get lower prices? That would make sense to me. I was in Houston Tex last spring and the gas price was 1 dollar to 1.25 Per GALLON. Only in Texas though. We should get fruit, natural gas, fish and a lot of other things cheaper than those provinces that don't have our resouces. I know lobster is a lot cheaper in New Brunswick and blueberries are a give away in Nova Scotia.

Why shouldn't a resource rich country look after its own needs first, and export only its surpluses in sufficient quantity to secure through trade those things which we can not produce at all, or very efficiently, ourselves?

After all, is that not the whole purpose of international 'trade'?

Even if it is a trade for some other country's 'money' instead of its goods, that country's money is only really effective demand for ITS goods, exercisable at some time in the future, not OUR goods, at any time.

Canadian goods, in Canada, are not sold for British pounds, or Euros, or Japanese yen, or Mexican pesos. No merchant or manufacturer wants those currencies in exchange for his products, for how could he pay his bills here in any of them?

Yet it seems that as a country
it's their 'money' we want, not alternate real wealth in exchange for the wealth we have exported to them. Their 'money' that can be converted by the Bank of Canada to Canadian money, to make up for an otherwise larger deficiency of consumer purchasing power here in Canada. Why should there be such a deficiency in the first place?

The economists have long maintained that the very act of producing goods and services also produces enough purchasing power in the form of consumer incomes to BUY ALL THOSE GOODS AND SERVICES. IN THE COUNTRY IN WHICH THEY ARE MADE.

In other words, they are maintaining that
there should be enough 'money'at any given moment in the hands or on deposit in the bank accounts of the general public to fully meet the price of every good and service already made and available for sale in Canada. Whether made for sale here, or exchanged for some other goods made elsewhere through trade for sale here.

Is there? If there is, then why does the amount of overall debt keep rising exponentially, and large amounts of it have to be continually written off periodically, as has been the case with those wiped out financially by the current recession?

Sure Gordon Campbell is on the list of Bildeburg attendees this summer.

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Bilderberg-Participants-2010.htm

Who cares if some politicians wants to capitalize on the arrogance of a corrupt liberal government.

The recall is about the HST and its violation of our democratic process and the only tool we have to address that violation of our democracy... the right to be informed as to what it is we are voting on.

The BC liberals lied and continue to lie, and as such if someone wants to capitalize on that by supporting the recall process then all the power to them... I for one thank them rather than casting aspersions on them because they're taking action for a good cause.

Ben is listening to much to the political hacks that call themselves political scientist from places like Simon Fraser University and UBC where all they do is read up on what the elites are doing and then think that everything HST has to do with the political power struggles between the parochial world of politicians... they (political scientists) would love to create their own reality, but in fact the reality is that HST was a bad tax shift, it violated our democracy, and the people of BC were not fooled by the lies and want to use all the tools at our disposal to remedy the situation... despite the shameful spin of political scientist working for an elite agenda.