Smoke and mirrors. Maybe the lowest personel income taxes and probably the highest bunch of hidden taxws than any other province. I can tell by the spending power of my pension. Carbon tax rip off and the HST are only several.

I'm sure that to offset the revenue lost though lower income taxes, there will be a large increase in 'user fees.' Maybe some new taxes as well.

I'm curious as to what will happen to those kiddies unable to read, write or do math at the end of grade four. Are they going to be held back until they can? Will the schools be given extra money to help them? Will the schools be sold?

I do think that he is right about one thing though. British Columbians can accomplish a lot when they work together. I hope that when the next election rolls around, we all vote for people (not parties) that will make a difference.

money, money, money makes the world go round.

At least with right of center leader, the money always gets redistributed through the system.

Well said 'My3Centsworth'. And 'oldun'-you are correct too. I think Campbell will soon be out of BC politics. BUT, who to vote for ?, is my question.

Very shortly I predict James will come out bashing Campbell's speach, but will not say ONE WORD of what she would do to better the province.

I recall the first thing Campbell did when the NDP crashed and burned and he managed to get elected,was give us a tax cut.
We all know how that went.
This exercise in political rhetoric gave us nothing.
He answered no questions.
He talked about a 15% tax cut, but he didn't talk about increased user fees etc.and added costs directly because of the HST.
Of course,he did tell us how much better of we are now because of the wonderful things this government have done for us!
A complete waste of the tax dollars that he used to pay for this empty garbage.
We got nothing!
Sorry Gordo...classic fail!
Nowhere near good enough!

oh, and I did spell speach that way on purpose.

And something else that bothers me a lot...Campbell wants the HST so bad he can barely contain himself...that scares the hell out of me.
When a dubious politican of Campbell's ilk wants something this bad...something is very wrong!
We need to be more afraid of this band of thieves than ever!

I appreciate what Campbell's offering. My family will save several hundred dollars a year with this tax cut and the HST.

If I'd been given a choice of the HST plus a 15% tax cut, I'd take that in a heart beat versus the PST mess we had.

I like consumption taxes because consumption taxes tax the #1 and #2 industries in BC (Pot and Crystal Meth).

Hmmmmm...I wonder what his "agenda" is? There must be something in it for him...I don't have time to read the posts but I'm betting i'm not alone in my suspicious thoughts!

A 15% tax cut eh? Great! More money that I can use to pay down debt, buy some new fly rods, spend on a vacation abroad or just throw in the bank. Can someone please explain to me how this is going to help fund health care, education and roads?

A whole bunch of double speak... he treats us like we are all uneducated fourth graders.

Notice how he compared what was taxed under the GST to what was taxed under the HST... pure smoke and mirrors... shows he lacks any real argument as Gordon Campbell avoided comparing what was taxed under the PST, as to what is taxed under the HST. So what was his purpose then... to avoid the real issue with misdirection?

The reason Gordon Campbell won't compare the two taxes is because PST was mostly services exempt. Services are jobs... not value added profits, but basic raw jobs flat taxed 12% regardless of value of the job, or profitability or lack of profitability of the company employing and paying for jobs.

So he says the HST will create jobs too. Yup services jobs in places like Alberta where they have a 7% productivity advantage over jobs in BC due to the HST. To counter this he will give you a 15% cut on the 5.09% tax of your income... for a real 7% productivity loss via the HST... off set with a Gordon Campbell .76% income tax reduction... a tenth of what he takes. Pure double speak at its finest trumpeting with the '15%' figure.

Gordon talks about: the $11 Billion in new investments... but no specifics, and its all conjecture at best... the $1.6 Billion in Harper bribe money that was essential to maintain health care and education... essential when you are off by a couple of billion on your balanced budget projections at election time... he shows a chart of ever increasing public tax demands as costs of government spiral out of control... taxes are required he says, but nothing of reining in the spiraling public sector six figure 'management' salaries. Its all classic double speak of a felon liar.

Gordon Campbell thinks we are all uneducated fourth graders... he is arrogant and condescending in the level of his shell game, and he shows no interest in genuinely consulting with anyone in BC that isn't a member of the Bildeburg Group, or a CEO of a major corporate globalist.

Recall should target Gordon Campbell first... he is a direct threat to democracy in BC and the rule of law in our democratic process in my opinion.

The advantage of the HST, is it puts our provincial government in our jeans by taxing us the same way the fed got us with GST. They are on the value added gravy train. I was hoping for the HST to drop to 10% or he announces his retirement.

Gordo, you pulled us out of the socialist catastrophe. Thank you, but your recent behaviour is a bit embarassing.... can you move on. Stop giving that dead beat Vanderzalm any opportunity. Go Carole go. your the best thing the Liberals have.

Now.
If he only increased the ''over-the-speed-limit,limit to 80 kph instead of 40 kph over before the man takes my truck away''. He'd have my vote.

Typical Gordon Campbell, more lies. You can be sure if he gives you a tax break fro $200.00 somehow he will take $400.00 out of your jeans. Best thing he can offer is his resignation and take the rest of the liberal sheep with him.

More lies and innuendo! Campells rating on my scale plummeted to 3% tonight. That is the lowest I have ever ranked a Premier since John Hart Days.
Fifteen percent tax cut is smoke and mirrors because he will escape any reduction in tax with hefty "user fee" increases.
He should be totally ashamed of suggesting the dollar percentage for health care is and will be going up.
What has happened to his agenda of the fittest jurisdiction anywhere in BC. He promised programs for youth in schools to decrease obesity and type 2 diabities in our youth, and better health and fitness programs for Seniors.
Once the Olympics were over he took immediate steps to cut funding to these groups through charitable gaming. Revenues from gambling have stayed stable or increased in the past two years, and he is eliminating contributions to proactive health programs. Forty nine percent of our dollar going to health care is outrageous. We have to get a handle on this situation.
The programs of early childhood education will be a social failure because teachers and their assistance will be the ones raising kids. A five year old in all day kindergarten, will be lucky to get 5 hours a day with their parents, and those hours will be under the duress and distress of getting off to school, home for supper, go play in your room, get to bed, etc., etc., and the wheel goes around tommorow- kind of lifestyle.
This man was so desperate to up his ratings tonight,he almost chocked on his own words telling us how fortunate we are to be British Columbian's and have him and Colin Hansen on our side.

HST Savings coming back to use in more jobs is a fallacy beyond belief.
The man made a true fool of himself tonight.
Perhaps my rating should be less than 1%!!!!

I can't believe that someone can compare the 'socialist catastrophe' to the 'capitalist catastrophe' we are having now. Fast ferries, big deal. They could have been fixed and would of if someone actually wanted to do what was right for BC, instead of do what was right for the liberals. NDP - off by 200 million on a budget estimate and the oligarch controlled press was all over them like they were thieves. Yet Campbell lies and sells BC rail, ho hum.

The common man needs to wake up and realize that the liberals/conservatives have only one god - that of greed. The left might be incompetent but I don't think they're evil.

I meant to say, that he bragged that we would have the fittest jurisdiction in North America.
While I am on the subject of youth, lets talk about what the government policies on schools is.
They seem hell bent on closing as many schools as they can and stuffing the ones that are still functioning with so many students that they are becoming dysfunctional.
A local highly regarded Physical Education teacher who has developed many high school championship teams and individuals province wide is on stress leave from one of our Senior High Schools. She was transferred from a closed Junior High to a Senior High School, this fall.
Although she has over 30 years seniority teaching and her previous school, she is considered Junior Staff in her new school.
They have so many students that they are unable to hold all the Physical education Classes in the Gym. So she was forced into conducting (are you ready), classes in the hallway. What a travesty, and we are supposed to be providing better fitness for our youth.
Over twelve Gymnasiums have been closed in our School District, and we have to now instruct kids in hallways. INSANITY!!!!!!

A 15% Gordon Campbell tax cut... verses a 12% HST on your cost of income comparison.

A savings to your employment of $515.15... verses a cost of $10,764.55.

Lets say hypothetically a person makes $72,000 a year.

$10,320 Basic Exemption
$2163.15 CPP ($3461.04 matched by employer)
747.36 EI ($747.36 matched by employer)
$13,230.51 deductions

Therefor $58,769.49 taxable

$1814.47 @ 5.06% provincial
$1336.97 @ 7.07% provincial
$6146 @ 15% federal
$3915.89 @ 22% federal
equals total of $13,496.23 income tax ($13,496 matched by employer)

Therefor earning $72,000 per year you take home after say $4000 in benefit and union costs... your take home is $41,273.26

Now if one looks at the cost to the employer for you to take home $41,273.26... your employer pays $72,000 plus matching costs of $17,704.63 for a total of $89,704.63.

Now $89,704.63 is not to total cost to your employer to pay you $41,273.26. Your employer has to have revenue to pay that $89,704.63 and the revenue will have HST on the full costs, because your employer gets no deductions from their revenue for the matching taxes, the CPP, EI, not the money you take home... it all requires revenue taxed by the HST with no deductions for the cost of your employment.

So $89,704.63 in revenue will cost your employer $89,704.63 plus 12%... or a total of $100,469.18 cost for you to take home $41,273.26.

That is a HST cost to earn $72,000 per year of $10,764.55. The real take home is only 41% of the actual cost to an employer after the payroll deductions and HST.

HST costs the $72,000 a year individual $10,764.55 in additional costs. Gordon Campbell is offering $515.15 cents in compensation for his job creation program. A difference of $10,249.05 in the cost to employ.

Oh and even the $615.24 Gordon Campbell 15% cut figure is a misleading lie... this assumes the $72,000 a year employee pays no CPP and no EI... I don't know of anyone that gets that exemption... but why not embellish if we are all just fourth grade thinkers....

How can anyoen say the HST is value added... it is nothing of the sort.

HST taxes mostly the cost of employees. Very little of it is from profits due to value added. A small business losing money still pays HST on all of its none exempt revenue.

It piles a tax burden on any small enterprise that wishes to get through the incubation period where loses are the norm... it favors mostly large monopoly globalists where they can avoid the HST through internal services giving them a 12% productivity advantage over the domestic small business.

It is not a value added tax... that is misinformation.

The decrease in income tax will save you about $1.35 per day, or roughly $490.00 per year. However for people earning in excess of $40,000 per year you will be paying approx $1200.00 a year more in HST. So your tax increase per year will be around $700.00.

Lets not forget that the HST is a transfer of taxes from Business and Corporations to consumers. This is what it is all about. The rest is all BS.

Isnt it rather strange that they were able to find an additional $2.5 Billion in revenues in September, and that some of this money will be used to pay the cost of the tax increase, ie; $568 Million in the first year, and $600 Million plus thereafter???.

Seems they are willing to do everything they can to keep the HST. Why?? Because it is a huge savings for business and corporations, especially those 80% who export thier products. Also it will be easy to increase the HST in the coming years by one or two percent and raise additional revenue.

Campbell and his buddies have been lying through their teeth right from the beginning on this HST issue, and I dont expect them to change anytime soon. What we need is.

1. Campbell should resign

2. We should recall as many MLA's as necessary to get this HST cancelled.

3. Some MLA's with enough guts to walk across the floor and tell Campbell to stuff it.

4. The HST referendum to be moved up to early 2011 so that it can be dealt with.

5. A resounding rejection of the HST with the PST being reinstated so that the Business's and Corporations who make Billions of dollars in profits in BC can continue to pay a share of the taxes.

6. Kick the Liberals in the ass in the next election so that they land somewhere far from BC, and do not return for at least 20 years.

7. Elect a middle of the road, fiscally responsible Government in the next election, so that we have a choice other than NDP/Liberal.

Have a nice day.

PST was more of a value added tax... it took a cut of your markup on a product... it didn't target directly services (employment).

GST and HST are a direct tax on your employment.. they target services, which is why they are so popular with financiers and CEO types of the globalist ilk. they are double talk in the way they formulate the tax to the way they force its implementation on those of us it the working middle class... all for their greedy strategic gain at the cost of the working middle class....

PST could make more of a claim to being a value added tax then HST ever could.

Total fiscal irresponsibilty...Campbell, Hansen and the finance department have stated we will be running multi billion dollar deficits, what will be cut, what user fees, more hydro increase, more gas taxes, msp increase, a ICBC car levy for $250 dollars...

The pie has only so many slices,

And no hst on legal aid, I guess that`s why he closed every legal aid office and slashed funding by 85% for legal aid cases..What a clown!



http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.com/2010/10/well-well-well.html

Bad spelling on my part... but the numbers are correct.

The more I learn about government, the more I want guns.

The good thing coming out of this is that as he is clinging to power, he is dragging down the liberal party and his fellow cronies.

It will take a few years to reverse all
his dirty works to protect his cronies
from prosecution.

I like lower income taxes.

Ya typical Gordo tell us what we want to hear. Maybe if we could trust him, once a liar always a liar.Since he was elected 400,000 new jobs created, what a load of B.S. So laughable you want to puke!

unfortunatly i was put on full disability not my choice but anyway at 55 iwas offered to move into a seniors housing and due to my lower rent the govt took 16 dollars away from my 906 a month ,please this very difficult and maybee not to most people that 16 dollars is like a million to myself,everybody please try to stay healthy because not only am i ill but no iam ashamed,what a mess

take the 15% and just hope it won't bite us in the ass

lower inco,e taxes.. remember its .0076% of your total income... not 15% less of 'your total income' as reported by the compliant media... its 15% less of .o506%, which works out to .oo76% less income tax... for a cost of 12%.

Not a good deal if you really take away the smoke and mirrors.

Remember his comment about the lowest personal income taxes in Canada. In Ontario, the medical services costs are built in to the taxes, here in BC they are separate as the MSP. He can't compare the two in a chart, they're different. Add the costs of a families MSP (1300$ / year) to the 'new' income tax rate and here in BC, we're barely even with. What a scam.

Calvin11 .. bang on!!! Gotta compare apples to apples. Of coures it works the other way as well. Ontario restaurant meals had provincial tax on them before the HST. So they saw no change. We didn't, now we are the same.

Of course, our restaurants have cut prices on their menues to reflect the savings the government says there are as a result of this new HST, and I see new restaurants opening up all over the place and visitors from all over the world booking trops to BC this year due to the cheap meals they can now get ......

LOL LOL LOL LOL ....

Tell us another one. We really like being treated like kids ........

Campbell is raking in millions alone just from the sales tax change on private auto sales. Previously the buyer paid pst at 7% and now with the hst the tax is 12%. On a $10,000.00 used car purchase that adds up to an extra $500.00 out of your jeans.
The guy is a scam artist. His real calling in life is working in a carnival where he can smile and lie to you while he fleeces your pocket.

The 15 per cent tax reduction announced by Premier Campbell in his TV address is NOT a cut restricted to those making less than $72,000 per year; it is a tax cut for everyone on the first $72,000 of their income. That means that the 20 per cent of taxpayers who make over $72,000 a year will get 50 per cent of the total benefits. The total lost revenue is estimated by the Campbell government to be $568 million; those making over $72,000 a year will collectively reap $284 million per year in tax cuts. Once again Campbell has tried to make it look like he is helping the middle class, when the truth is he is helping higher income earners.

I listened to Campbell on Meisner this morning.
Ben,I have to say,I thought you were a bit condecending to him,which suprised me.
More of the same old rhetoric we got last night from Campbell on TV,so obviously,Campbell has nothing new to say to us.
Another fail,Gordon,and your script is getting tiresome.
What was interesting and a bit disconcerting...I am pretty sure I heard Ben refer to the Premier as "bud" when speaking to him a couple of times?
No big deal I suppose...just weird!

@ Icicle - you're not too bright, are you? You must have been one of the Campbell voters.

The HST and/or consumption taxes DO NOT tax pot or crystal meth.

Good try, though. I see you have the same thought processes he does.

Actually, Icicle's point is extremely valid. They are probably alluding to the fact that income derived from illicit sources will often not get reported on income tax returns and in such instances (unless Revenue Canada does an audit) income tax will not be paid on it.

With consumption taxes, however, everytime someone buys something that is taxed, they pay. If there is something that criminals love, it's buying expensive crap. Cars, houses, jewellery, rims, you name it. At least with high consumption taxes, the governemnt gets their pound of flesh from those that earn income from illegal sources.

Honestly, I think a good tax system could be one that almost eliminates income taxes and has very high consumption taxes (with exemptions built in for necessary items like shelter, food, etc.). You could still build in ways to offset taxation on low income people, but at least the criminals and average folks would be on the same ground and contributing "equally". Truth be told, the criminals would likely pay more because they often have more to spend because of their criminal acitivites and the need to spend it. That would be fine with me!

With all the posts describing how much we will spend or save,(and I want the HST repealed also) I think we all blew by the post by Alex1212.
We are lucky enough to be able to post on how it will affect our lives,however, what about those who lose $ 12 and it making a huge difference in their lives.
Something to think about.

NMG, do you want more services or less tax you can't have both. I for one would way rather pay tax on what I spend rather than what I earn. At least this way I am rewarded for paying down debt and increasing my savings. Lower sales tax and higher income tax rewards me for spending money I don't have and didn't earn.

porter, I think we agree, LOL :)

Oh and btw, I fully recognize that you can't have both. The government needs to get off their kick of always having to have the lowest taxed jurisdiction. It's a race to the bottom IMHO. I liked Blair Lekstrom's comment on Meisner today where he said that instead of being the lowest with no money for services, why not be the 3rd lowest and be able to fund things adequately? The trend of lowering income taxes every year has a hidden cost that nobody seems to want to talk about.

I'd have no problem with shifting the entire tax burden from income taxes to consuption taxes. Like I said, exempt the necessities of living and have a sliding scale for everything else. The more luxurious your spending, the higher rate you pay. Want to buy a vehicle that gets 10 MPG, pay a higher rate. Want to buy a pair of jeans that costs $200, pay a higher rate. It could go on and on. Tax the people that can afford to pay it, use the tax system to impact behaviours or provide incentives and make sure that the money coming in can fund the services we need.

NMG, you have a point. I too agree a form of consumption tax would be better than any income tax at all.

My main point was HST and GST are designed to be a consumption tax on employment and not on value added goods. This and its a disincentive for creating employment in the services sector creating costs to government in unemployment and lower sustainability of the economy.

The examples you used in your post are value added types of consumption, not necessarily related to services or employment. Things like goods, cars, jewelry, rims, and jeans ect... a cut from the mark up in value... this has some merit and is essentially what the PST was. Going a step further would be consumption of fuel?

I think in an ideal world we shouldn't pay any income tax below a good middle class income threshold.

The cost of labor would be deductible from revenue for remittance calculations of the business in a consumption tax.

Services wouldn't be taxed as its services that generates employment.

And I think one of the best consumption tax would be for gas and natural gas... and that this is how cities and regional districts should be funded, rather than from captive property taxes.