I would almost bet that the reinstatement of the GST/PST means we keep paying the PST on the items that weren't included before - same taxes, different breakdown and names.

and they will start saying now there will be no hst rebate, and not mention it was a gst rebate to start with.. scaring the low income people into voting to keep it!!!!!

I think "reinstating" means the PST would be as it was before, but with this government we'd better make sure. Personally, I'd like to see our vote decide one thing at a time, which would mean two questions. Yes or No to extinguishing the HST, and Yes or No to the reinstatement of the PST in conjunction with the GST.

No room for discussion, compromise or exemptions. No common sense can be applied. Just yes or no.

This question does nothing to solve the problem. Because either option is not the best solution. Can't we come up with another option that we can all live with? Of course the HST benefits many corporations and will simplify and reduce many costs to administer.

However, the added burden to the average consumer and taxpayer is not an acceptable alternative.

When the rights of one group override the rights of another group, that is where we need to begin the discussions.

This is not an opportunity to start a question about sales tax in general.

The question has to be very simple. The one that is proposed meets the criteria of

1. dealing with the repeal of the HST legislation and putting everything relating to the HST and PST back to the way it was before July 2010.

2. simplicity.

It does not meet the third important notion

3. no confusion.

It is obvious from just the first few posts in here that there is confusion, suspicion and fear.

That part needs to go. The current government is no longer trusted by a significant part of the population.

If a statment such as "PST reinstated to the way it was before July 2010" were added, then that would be clarified.

Of course, after that the government can make other changes. They always have been able to do that.

In fact, to make it even clearer, I would link the personal income tax reduction to the HST as well and rescind that as well since many are writing that the new party leader should be given as clean a plate as possible.

On top of that, I would see what can be done to move the question to before the leadership convention.

I could care less if they recinded the low ball income tax reduction. It amounts to approx 70 cents per day. They can throw it out, and of course there would be no need to give a HST rebate because no one would be paying the HST. They can even take the HST that has been paid so far, and apply this money to reimburse the costs to business to go back to the PST, and to help pay back the Federal Government.

The killer aspect of the HST is that once it is in place they can jump it up one or two percentage points every couple of years, and eventually we will be paying somewhere in the area of 19 to 23% like some European countrys ie; Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc; etc; etc;

Anyone who thinks this tax would stay at 12% or be lowered over time if just kidding themselves.

The beauty of the PST is that in addition to applying to everyday consumers, it also applies to Business and Corporations. So when the Government trys to increase the PST their bosses, big business and corporations tell them to take a hike. If consumers complain about a tax hike they are ignored.

So I say reinstate the PST and allow Big Business and Corporations to keep the Government in line when it comes to increases.

Down with all taxes, down with Government waste, down with the lack of fiscal responsiblilty, down with corporate welfare.

We are a Province who wastes money on a scale that defies reason. We need to stop. We need to base our tax system on the ability of the citizens to pay, not on some convoluted system based on the price of a house, that has been driven up in value by speculators, and developers.

We are facing higher and higher taxes at a time when more and more people are retiring and reducing their incomes by 50% or more, and as far as I know there is not one person in Government who cares.

Thats a pretty scary situation. The Campbells, Hansens, and others of their ilk need to be retired. We need new blood and new ideas in Government.

Obama, Nenshi or Ford type of new blood?

I dont know if there is anyone on the Canadian Horizon that has the qualities for leadership that we need to turn this ship around.

Hopefully we can elect a number of members to the Legislature that have the intestinal fortitude to tell their leader to take a hike when he gets out of line.

Is this to much to ask?? Do we not deserve good and honest Government.?? Is it some kind of Universal secret law,that leaders have to be a-holes.

Most of the dudes in Government do-day are there for the great pay, and spiffy pensions, and the ability to live high off the hog on taxpayers money.


What a shame.

Death and taxes deal with it

Gone are the pre-1972 days when our MLAs, unless they were in Cabinet, had to hold down another job, or be in business, in the community they 'represented'. A MLA's pay alone wasn't enough to live on, and going to the Legislature was akin to being a volunteer fire fighter.

It was something done "for the good of the community", although there were some obvious 'perks' available, too. From being "in the know" about certain things, especially if you were on the Government side of the House. And no doubt many were able to turn their new-found knowledge to private advantage financially later on.

Be that as it may, it was still far more 'cost-effective' to us, than what's come since Dave Barrett decided to make being in the Legislature a well-paid, full-time profession.

And just look back at the record of some of the original Socred MLAs who regularly took their own Leader and Government to task publicly for perceived failures ~ and often did it more vigourously than the Opposition did. How many of THEM did WAC Bennett dismiss from his caucus? They criticised from within ~ it was expected, that's what they were there for. Just look at how far we've declined today.

We are very nearly back to pre 1972 in terms of days our MLA's actually sit in the Legislature.
When Dave Barrett doubled the MLA's salaries in, I think 1973, MLA's sat in the house for a spring session, for on average 50 days. What also came with the full time salary positon for MLA's was a fall session in the house which also doubled the days MLA's were in Victoria.

Bill Bennett went back to one sitting in the Legislature but it was a long session. Bills's session started in he spring and went into the summer, his sessions more than doubled in days to a peak of 136 days.


Since the Bill Bennett days the days the BC MLA's sit in the house has steadily declined.

In 2001 Gordon Campbell campaigned on a plank that the legislature would operate under a fixed schedule, with a spring and a fall session. A campaign promise that Mr Campbell did not keep. Mr Campbell's sessions have been as low as 46 days. Currently our MLA's sit an average of 60 days.

So yes socredible we are back to pre 1972, only the pay for our MLA's does not reflect it.

Correction...Before Barrett added the fall session MLA's sat an average of 50 days, after Mr Barrett added the fall session the days in the house doubled.

I do not like the word "conjunction" in the question.
It doesn't need to be there, so why is it?
It takes the question from a simple yes or no, to what?
With this government,knowing their penchant for lies and manipulation,we need to clarify in writing exactly what the question implies before we vote.
What rate will PST and the GST be set at?
As well,the government will spend the next year trying to convince voters to keep the HST.
Get ready for the biggest bombardment of Campbell Liberal propaganda ever seen in B.C.!
Guess who gets to pay for that?
The suedo-Liberals and the NDP need to get their sorry asses back into the house and start acting like a government.
It appears what we have now is nothing short of the last desperate gasps of a dying government trying to keep it's replacement from getting in to see the mess on the books!
Recall them all!
If these clowns are allowed to continue to 2013 and the next election,we will regret it!
There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know,and none of it is good!

I like all the talk of the good old days. No problems back then.

There were problems back in the day,but somehow the the issue of governments looking after themselves has been allowed to grow and prosper.
Almost to the point of being out of control.
I guess that's our fault.
Apathy is a dangerous thing,particularly when it comes to the ballot box and acceptance of the bullsh**t our 'elected representatives'shovel on to our plates.
The other difference is,way back when,governments didn't seem to have the means and the power to hide the corruption like they do now.
They knew someone was watching.
Now,they don't even bother to hide it anymore.
They know there really isn't a damn thing we can do about it until election time,and even then, we are fairly predictable.
As Palopu said,most of the polticians in today's political life, are indeed in it for the great pay,spiffy pensions,and the ability to live high off the hog on taxpayers money.
Perks,pensions,and prestige.
Not to mention power,before and after political life, gained through insider knowledge and contacts made.
Of course,we are told that none of the above is true.
Of course not.
We are told we just don't understand!
Which is a polite way of saying we are stupid and we are treated as such.
These political opportunists are simply there for the betterment of their fellow canadians...no greater honour than public service in Canada.
That must be true,because I heard Gordon Campbell,one of our shining examples of political perfection,say it, and he wasn't the first to use that line.
No greater service than public service,he said.
How could we think it was not true?
Silly us for thinking otherwise!
Actually,3 cheers and a pat on the back for us...for finally starting to wake up and push back!

Lots of problems back then, too, hood rich. But things were more in proportion. Now it's getting way out of whack. Look at all the Ministries in Campbell's government. He's got more people from his caucus sucking off the public tit as Minister of This or That to administer a government of some 4 million people than Obama has in a Cabinet administering a nation of 360 million! Do we really need a "Minister of Amateur Sport"? Or most of the other Ministries now in place, too?

As for the rest, the 'backbenchers' that're left, just WHAT do they DO to earn the money we pay them? The whole HST experience indicates they sure don't "represent" what the majority of people in their ridings were telling them. Their salaries aren't hardly pocket-change, they're more by far than what most of us are earning. And with "expenses" covered on top of that? And they preach a need for "austerity" TO US?

Well I think there were many more problems back then. Focus on the issues on hand instead yearning for days past.

I would like the provincial government to keep the HST but drop the PST portion of it by a percentage hopefully/maybe two.

I see the long term benefits/efficiencies of combining the two similar taxes. I believe that government should have been honest during the campaign about the possibility of the HST. For that I favor the HST but not this government.

You're right hood rich...and because of the dishonesty in bringing the HST and all the things they neglected to mention about it,they can never be trusted again.
They took a chance of pulling a fast one and they got caught.
Now they pay for that, as they should.

The chances of a rate drop in the HST are highly unlikely. If anything, I'd look for them to raise the rate, since that's been the experience in virtually every other country that's introduced this form of taxation. If there had been any possibility that the rate of the two taxes combined was going to be less than at present, I think Campbell would've lowered it on its inception, and avoided virtually all of the public furor that's put his government on the skids, and ended his own political career.

Bang on socredible..a percentage point drop,maybe 2 percent,would likely have saved their butts.
Once people got used to the HST,they would have raised it anyway.
They still will raise it,if we are not successful in getting rid of it,along with this government
Campbell has no one blame for this other than himself.
He and Hansen succeeded in killing their own government.

Well when I first read the question I thought that it was **ok** However on reflection and considering the source ie: Liberal Government and Liberal appointed acting Chief Electoral Officer I thought that I should look for the fix.

I now interpret the question to mean the following.;

The HST will be recinded.
The PST will be re-instated on those items that we previousley paid PST on. The PST will be merged into the GST so in effect we will have a GST of 12% with those items that were exempt from the original GST still exempt from the new GST.
The new GST will probably be called a VAT or some such thing.

I further expect that the PST will not be re-instated for business and corporations, and therefore they will be able to offset their GST costs as they do now, and for those companies who export, they will get tax credits on the new GST 12% the same as they do now for the GST of 5%.

What this means in effect is that the Government is still going to be short of money because they will not receive the PST from business and corporations, and will not get any new revenue from the new merged GST of 12%.

Business and Corporations will still continue to save the $1.8 Billion a year, (which is what this whole process is about) and the Government will have to go shopping for the additional revenue.

Its possible that they will be able to keep the money from the Feds because they did in fact bring in a form of HST, and they probably would indicate to the Feds that they would over time get the other items included in the tax.

In addition they would probably cancell the 15% income tax reduction, and the HST rebate because the original tax idea did not go through.

So the question is. Where will they make up the lost revenue. ie; The money they would have collected on the items that will once again be exempted from the GST.Ie; $1.8 Billion .

I have no idea if this is what the Goverment has in mind, but it is so bloody confusing, irrational, deceiving, and downright nasty, that it could be.

I wrote this post, and have now totally confused myself.

Have a nice day.

It hinges on how they intend to interpret the words "...in conjunction with the GST...", and that's what should be clarified.

If it means that the PST and GST are back to where they were before the HST implementation started, that's one thing.

But if it's to be as Palopu has explained above, then that only opens the door to some other way of taking from all of us the PST shortfall that would've been paid by exporting businesses. And that's certainly NOT acceptable.

I have no doubt that the "Liberals" (sic) will turn the tables on us regardless of the results of the referendum.

As has been so eloquently stated above, the intent will be undermined and the consumer will continue to be screwed for the benefit of corporations.

"Are you in favour of extinguishing the HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) and reinstating the PST (Provincial Sales Tax) in conjunction with the GST (Goods and Services Tax)? Yes/No"

Why people make the english language so complicated continues to be a mystery for me. I can only attribute it to mistrust in this case.

Conjunction = the state of being joined; a joint or simultaneous occurence

Reworded.

Are you in favour of extinguishing the HST and simultaneously reinstating the PST and the GST?"

I would lengthen it to the following to provide more certainty to the meaning.

"Are you in favour of extinguishing the HST and simultaneously reinstating the PST and the GST as they were applied prior to July 1, 2010?"

Ahhhh. If we only had clarity.

A simple question that would be understood by all would be.

**Are you in favour of returning to the tax system in BC that was in place prior to July 1, 2010. Yes or No.

There is no need to discuss PST, GST, HST, etc;

Beware of Geeeks bearing gifts.