Well done, Peter.
When seeing or hearing such propaganda as put out by this group of contractors it is always good policy to "follow the money" to see who benefits if they have their way.

Good one Peter...again!
I also agree with you, sardonic...follow the money...always follow the money,because it usually tells the tale of what is really going on behind the scenes!

X3

While true HST shifted the burden of PST off of business to consumers, I think it fair to note, without business, no jobs, no consumers.

Being in business is tough and there is no end of government regulation to make it tougher. In any one year you can have a GST audit, an income tax audit, a WCB audit, a payroll audit, and before HST, a PST audit. And the business pays all the costs for their end of things, including an accountant to handle the appeals because the audits are rarely fair.

And then there's the labour standards rules, wcb rules city by-laws etc. to comply with. So it doesn't seem to me a horrible thing to take some of the burden off of business and shift it to the consumers whose jobs depend on the very health of those businesses.

As it stands now, business endured the costs of converting to HST, paid their accountants to explain and and help them transition, and now it looks like they'll have to bear the costs of transitioning back again.

Everyone seems to think business is large corporations like Canfor, but it's also those guys who own logging trucks, skidders, corner stores, taxis. And it should be noted large corporations don't get a complete break on all of their HST. Some of it is clawed back.

Prince George members of the Independent Contractors' and Business Association of BC are in an interesting position of responsibility, with a fundamental choice to be made. In my humble opinion there is one choice to be made. Choose wisely grasshopper.

Publicly and vehemently renounce Phil Hochstein's tactics or be subject to the hardships of BOYCOTT and all what it brings.

Silence is not a choice. When all is said and done, silence is the weakest form of consent.

BTW, as far as I can determine, there are no ICBA companies in the Robson Valley, but there are 7-8 in Prince George.

Every day is voting day when we "elect" where to spend our money.

Politics aside, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

P.S. There could be a business advantage to those companies that choose Door #1

Shi50- you can tell it the other way as well. The success of many businesses depends soley on the buying power of consumers.

Take 2 billion dollars a year out of the equation, and there will be casualties.

Pretty hard sell to convince people that taking money from their pockets and giving it to businesses is a good thing. The real facts are the consumer drives the economy. Just look at the US economy where the savings rate is higher than it has been in years. There is a big push to get consumer out spending more. Black Friday and cyber Monday are prime examples.
Businesses are in business to make a profit for the owners of small businesses to the shareholders of large corporations. Generally if they don't make a profit then the doors of the business close unless you are a GM or Chrysler and get gov't bailouts, along with reduced wages and benefits paid to their workers.
Supporting business through added taxation on the backs of consumers is certainly not the answer.

First I must address Peter's article. Apparently the anti-HST campaign is allowed to express their opinions on their website, but the ICBA isn't allowed to express their opinions on their website? From the anti-HST website: "Third, how can we be sure that Gordon Campbell’s friends in the big business lobby will not try to scuttle the results of that referendum in court again, like they attempted to do with the petition?" Inflammatory and opinion yes. Come on now.

Second I need to address "While true HST shifted the burden of PST off of business to consumers." This is the biggest lie the anti-HST campaign continues to perpetuate. There is no such thing as a tax shift. When a business pays a tax they pass the cost of that tax to the consumer. If a business buys something for $1 and pays tax of 10 cents they don't mark it by 20% to come up with $1.20. They mark it up to $1.32. If a business does not pass all their costs including taxes on to the consumer they go under.

Your missing one point, some of the largest corporations to benefit from the tax shift make the majority of their sales out of country...to foreign consumers...

The price of pulp is determined by market forces...for example...the pulp producer saves the tax because of the tax shift to BC taxpayers, the price of pulp isn't affected...the end effect is we pay more tax, the pulp company has higher profits.....all due to the shift of PST off of business onto the backs of BC taxpayers.

ski50 wrote: "I think it fair to note, without business, no jobs, no consumers."

I think it is fair to not that.

I think it is also fair to note that it is a chicken or egg situation. Which came first?

In other words, supply side or demand side?

Did someone start a Xmas card business first and then people started buying cards and send them to family and friends?

Or did people send cards and someone caught on to a great business idea and make cards so that people would not have to do that on their own?

Does it matter? Its like the carbon cycle, or water cycle, where does it start and where does it end? Which is the most important part of the cycle?

I would like to remind you that a person living in the wilderness fending for him/herself works first to take something from nature, typically alters its raw state into something more useful such as a tree into a shelter, then uses/consumes it.

There is no business. There is raw material provided by nature, there is work/job that goes into adjusting the natural thing, and there is use/consumption.

If there is a "business" it is the very act of living/surviving also embodied in that individual.

Having someone take hold of that individual to take that living/surviving role over from them takes a large responsibility pf enuring that person continues to enjoy the ability to work and to consume.

And that is the role business used to take seriously.

In today's world that responsibility is typically relinquished back to the individual and in the lucky situation, the state.

So, for all those who are so high and mighty about business, start taking care of the part of business which has a responsibility to the citizens of a country in the first instance and to the so called businessmen in the second place.

When we get that straightened out, maybe we can get back to enjoying life and the fruits of our labour and take some of the stress out of our lives that is killing more and more of the population through drug abuse, alcoholism, overeating, heart disease, stress, dysfunctional families, etc. etc.

"Consumer DEMAND is the origin of all economic activity."

This is true whether you're dealing with a simple, one-person-Robinson-Crusoe-on-his-deserted-island-economy, or the most complex, modern, industrial one imaginable. If there's no 'supply' then 'demand' can't be satiated ~ but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Simply that it can't be filled. Robinson still gets hungry, even if there's no cocoanuts on the tree.

An endless 'supply' without any 'demand' is of no use to anyone. And when you take more 'money' from consumers with the HST, their REAL demand has just been made that much less an EFFECTIVE demand.

Jim13135 Has is right. Because BC exports 80% of what it produces, ie; coal, minerals, pulp and paper, ingots, lumber, etc; So there is no way for these costs to be added to the price to consumers, because the consumers in BC do not buy those products.

That is the BIG LIE. Business and Corporations get a $2 billion dollar gift from the Government, paid for by BC Consumers, who get (as usual) the Royal Shaft.

So lets give up on trying to support this bloody tax, all it ever was, was a shift from Business and Corporations to consumers. Thats it pure and simple.

If you havent got that figured out by now, then you never will.

Lest we forget, The BC Chamber of Commerce and several other big business groups along with the ICBA were the ones who sought to subvert the wishes of 600,000+ residents who signed the anti HST petition by bringing a frivilous court case against the anti HST group. It seems money and greed trump the wishes of the people of BC. The sooner we get rid of the Lieberals, the sooner we can rein in these self serving people like Phil H.

Hochstein and Co. are shooting themselves in the head with their current attempts at intimidation.

If anything, it will just strengthen the resolve of people TO sign the Recall Petition.

Likewise the new official BC Liberal "spin" that the whole Recall process is the now revealed secret brainchild of the NDP.

The Recall canvassers are volunteers that come from all sides of the political spectrum, and the issue is NOT overthrowing the government by re-fighting the last election, but in applying 'pressure' on the government to hold a binding Referendum on the HST as soon as possible.

We do not need until next September to further "consider" the issue. The arguments for and against have all been heard and should be familiar to us all. If they're not, then they can easily be re-capped in the short space of time it takes to hold the Referendum.

If Hochstein and the Liberals are so concerned their Party retain office and save the expense of continuing Recalls and by-elections, then hold the Referendum NOW, and the Recalls will stop.

We, on the anti-HST side, have no problem in abiding with whatever outcome the voter's decide in that Referendum ~ that is 'democracy'. What is gained by delay?

"The arguments for and against have all been heard and should be familiar to us all."

I am usualyy relatively thorough in seeking information. In this case, either I did not do that or the arguments for or against simply have not been presetned to my satisfaction. All I have heard are opinions from both sides as well as the other 5 sides. I have seen very few facts.

In fact .... I think there would be considerable difficulty in attributing an increase in production, sales, job creation, or any of the kind to the reduction of consumption tax that business has to pay. Similarly, it would be difficult to attribute any kind of price reduction, or holding the price rather than increasing it, to the introduction of the HST.

Even a decrease in restaurant sales, fast food sales, general retail sales, etc. would be difficult to attribute to the introdution in HST.

One way to do that might be to look at regional pictures, such as Ontario versus Quebec, BC versus Alberta. But even that is fraught with a few comlications to make sure like things are measured.

http://www.policynote.ca/we-told-you-so-hst-introduction-a-factor-behind-gdp-drop-in-july

Back to the original comment about voting sooner than later. I really do not expect much from government in the way of explanation that would point me in either one direction or another.

So, the sooner we vote, the better.

Effect on Tourism - an example

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2767953

From the link:

For the past five years, John Moland has gone fishing in Lake of the Woods with seven buddies.

Moland and three of his friends live in Edmonton. The others are from Manitoba. They've enjoyed the good food in Kenora and the great scenery and good fishing in the pristine lake.

This year was their last, Moland said.

The reason? The HST.
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This is not rocket science. No need to be a Chartered Accountant to understand this.

The only people who do not understand simple things like that seem to be politicians and business people who make enough money to not have to worry about HST on their personal spending. Wonder if that has anthing to do with them travelling to other countries to spend their money. :-)

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5033

You try to eat healthy. Costco sell a spinach salad priced at 6.99. Prior to the HST there was no tax. Now the salad costs an extra 12%.
How about the hidden agenda on autos. Private sales previously 7% PST, now 12% HST. Hundreds of millions generated for the gov't coffers and the effect on consumers slides neatly under the radar.

What's worse is that this kind of taxation, wherever it's been imposed, has continually gone up afterwards. Often despite the promises of Opposition Parties seeking to get elected to eliminate, or at least lower it, if they attain office.

New Zealand's experience is a perfect example. For that matter, our own country, with the Federal Liberals and the GST when Chretien was first seeking office, would serve as well.

Harper lowered it finally, to 5% from 7%, but is there any guarantee that a majority Conservative government in Ottawa wouldn't put it back up again?

Just look at Britain, and their current government's slavish grovelling before the 'lords of high finance' ~ a repeat of the late 1920's and early '30's all over again. Destruction of lives and property that are REAL in the quest for what is supposed to be 'sound finance'. To WHOSE benefit? Certainly not "the People" in OUR quest for a standard of living that's more than possible to attain and sustain 'physically', but is to be permanently denied us 'financially'.

Sign the Recall Petiton, if and when one becomes necessary in your riding ~ if the 'pressure' of the current one, and those planned to follow is still not enough to obtain the results desired. THAT is OUR last and best chance to reverse the descent into being controlled by the men of 'money'.