uh huh....

I recall all the naysayers on this site poo-pooing the trips to China but that's now starting to pay off in spades.....this is an excellent step and undoubtedly it will take numerous trips over numerous years before we start seeing results. I for one have no issues spending my tax dollards opening doors in this way.

positive thoughts.

Next step.. Sales.

good bye USA

well lets close the two idled mills in p.g permantely because we are all tired of the political fluff!!!!!!!!!!! what excuse do they have now march lumber futures are over 340,us economy housing number are going to pick up an extra 20 percent and exports are going for another double in 2011 and with india it can or may go over a triple.

Does anyone know how long the dead pine is still viable when it comes to using it for lumber?

Said another way, when does it actually stop being a source of wood that can realistically be sold?

As I understand it NMG,the usable life of these dead trees was 15 years,give or take a few.
But it was a few years back now,when I was told that.
I was also told around the same time that 15 years was a figure being touted by the government, and the wood was actually blowing up in the saws after 7-8 years.
I don't think anyone really knows the answer to just how long it will actually remain useable.
I have heard that a lot of what they are hauling out of the bush right now,is crap.

Thanks for the info Andyfreeze.

I just find it interesting that stories like these just seem to assume that what is going on right now can continue on for decades, when in fact, there are still serious issues that need to be addressed once the MPB fallout really starts to occur.

It won't really matter what markets we have if we don't have any useful wood to sell for a period of 20 years or so. What are we doing in anticipation of that, other than sticking our heads in the sand and saying "don't worry folks, China and India are coming on board!"?

good point NMG

Any effort at trying to develop a market for wood that will otherwise just rot and be completely wasted is certainly a worthwhile effort.

I would imagine that India, like China, probably uses a lot more lumber for concrete form work, crating and packaging exports, pallets, and such like, than for higher end purposes, or even wood frame construction. The demand seems to be mostly for low-grade, cheap, expendable lumber ~ with 'price' being the main consideration ~ wherever it comes from.

If we can still recover that type of material out of MPB killed logs that would just otherwise rot, and are able to get it over there at a price that fully covers our costs, at least were doing something with a resource that's bound to have a steadily decreasing time-frame for its utilisation as lumber.

Long-term, we're unlikely to be able to capitalise on those same markets once the MPB killed wood is gone.

The 'cheap' resource is depleting rapidly, both from what we're able to remove and process before it's too far gone, and even more so from natural deterioration that will render most of the beetle kill useless for any kind of lumber manufacture at all long before we can ever get to it. At the moment, something's better than nothing, though, and if we don't use it we're going to lose it anyways.

What form the forest industry takes afterwards remains to be seen. One thing seems to be certain, it won't be employing anywhere near as many people as it does now.

Those who believe "VALUE ADDED" will be the wave of the future that'll reverse that, would do well to remember that it's exceedingly difficult to ever add value to anything that's already becoming more valuable through increasing scarcity.

All that's usually added is 'cost', and that becomes awfully difficult to fully recover in 'price' in all too many instances.

Even when it can be fully recovered, eventually, it often takes far too long for that to happen. And the "cost of money" ~ a cost based on time ~ eats up any anticipated profit.

I think we need to start selling charcoal with the pine beetle wood. Same energy density as coal... ship it for cooking fuel to island countries that don't have natural gas options. Fill shipping containers with it for distribution purposes and then sell it through distributors in 1kg bags kind of like a gas station, but for charcoal.

Huge massive potential market... probably good for carbon credit support as it reduces the burning down of higher quality trees in scarce forests in most of the countries that would be consumers.

Beetle wood is too dry within a very short period. In order for a board to be considered "kiln dried" it must be in a kiln for a certain amount of time. Now that the wood is so dry the rough board must be overdried. So when the government says that the log is useless after 15 years they mean less useful than a politician. But practically the dry log causes issues in the planner after a very short period of time. Add to this the devaluation created as you get less and less prime quality product and you have a real issue.

Bang on Born in B.C.!

Does anyone know how much less wood is logged now than 5 yrs ago when the push was on to get out the bug wood? I heard that the current volume is half of what it was. Are we back to the AAC before the beetle epidemic or has the recession caused a further reduction?

I think beetle-kill is now used only for pulp and is not viable for lumber.

The allowable cut for green timber has been lowered considerably.
Apparently the mills are still cutting lumber from bug-kill, so I am told.
I suppose they don't have a choice.
The quality of that lumber is low,resulting in lower prices to the mills.
Again,so I am told.
It would be nice to see some hard figures on what is actually happening.

The government has manuipulated producers with extremely low stumpage on beetle kill. I think it is maybe 1/50th cheaper than green. This has virtually eliminated demand for green lumber, especially with the low lumber price. This could change in the spring if the March deliveries prices hold. BIG IF.

I dont think that there is alot of whole log chipping going on yet. There is certainly some but it is still far more expensive (2 or 3 times) than chips from sawmills. The inevitable lack of chips from sawmills at some point in the future is going to be a problem for pulp mills.

I really like to know what's going on here upgrade to the pulp mill good for them, USA housing market to pick up and now india is in the works now he's my say on all this. I'm a Rustad employee or should i say I was a rustad employee and its now been 1 and a half years its been shutdown and our 2 yr indefinate closure agreement ends in july of this year should they reopen or permently shutdown. Other mills knew in advance rustad radium and vanenby were to close as I knew ahead of time clearlake was to have there meeting on its shutdown weeks before the meeting to the crew my sorce says "clear lake to shutdown Rustads to reopen" 3 weeks later clear lake was told of there closure Now I'm hearing from friends from other mills and other employees from rustads that there is to be a major announcement this month on the reopening of rustads in febuary as there waiting for clear lake to permently close its operation so that if half the mill not come back due to better jobs rustad will hire employees from clear lake. Rustads was shutdown same time as radium and vanenby and all 3 mills indefinate closure terms are up in july. To avoid paying buyouts they would have to reopen the mills as rustads is to reopen due to clear lakes closure and with vanenby and radium due to reopen aswell by july two other canfor mills would take the downfall and have there turn in an indefinate shutdown for 2 years and then 2 other mills over and over. If you look it at my opinion on this Patterson can shuffle mills like a deck of cards now clear lake was the only mill in canfor with a permanent closure in there contract and now clear lake is out of the picture Patterson can shuffle away with mill closures to avoid paying buyouts and keep the money in his pocket. So for the canfor mills that are near the bottom of the pack look out for a dim future in the summer and start looking for another job if I'm right about it and these 3 mills reopen. This is what I'm hearing Excell has renewed its contract and have been told of rustads already and a distubiter in town that ships protection equipment like gloves and
protection glasses have been given a huge order for rustads sawmill now just the two things going around should raise an eyebrow and wonder whats the scoop and could this be true for what i'm hearing by many people I may have a job again come feb. Cross my fingers who knows we'll wait and see.