Unless of course the NDP get elected....then mining activity will plummet again...

As appossed to what we have now? Seems to me there are a bunch of crooks running this province now.

Sure, "mining activity will plummet" ---- because their election will trigger a worldwide collapse of gold, copper ,and coal prices around the world.

Aside from that , Hawes is correct.

It is beyond me how blind, raw ideological positions can be, from both the left and the right of the political spectrum.

The NDP is not known around the world, nor is British Columbia. When it comes to mining we are a very small portion of a huge industry. Russia, China, Austrailia, New Zeland, and the USA are huge players.

Same thing applies to the lumber industry.

While we have some impact on mining, we cetainly do not have enough to effect prices around the world.

The Politicians are in favour of the mines, because they have no other ideas on how to get the economy moving in BC rural areas. It seems we have lumber and mining, and thats about it. We of course have the beef industry, and some farming, however it certainly is not labour intensive.

Lets come up with some ideas on how to increase employment over the long term, with some good jobs.

Any ideas?????

""It is beyond me how blind, raw ideological positions can be, from both the left and the right of the political spectrum""

History has a way of repeating itself and the comments about the NDP are based in historical data.

"Seems to me there are a bunch of crooks running this province now."

I don't recall a point in my lifetime hearing anyone say, 'What a group of honest hard working selfless individuals we have running our province.'

The are all pegged as crooks after the election honeymoon period is over.

Who out there really believes we will be happy with the next government - provincial or local?

Gee, the phenomenon of a one horse/industry town.

The extremes of boom-bust cycles have greater impacts on a relative scale to the community than on a larger community which can absorb boom-busts a bit better.

BUT, the total number of people done in by the boom-busts of a provincial economy, national economy, continental economy and world economy are far far greater than that of a single small community.

Just think about it Hawes. Put your brain to work a a bit more. Create a list of positives and negatives starting from the original influx of people non aboriginals to the west to seek and mine gold. Then look at those communities now. Some are not as lucky as Barkerville and their names have been totally forgotten.

We can all list names of single industry towns and talk about the ups and downs:
Granisle
Kimberly
Endako
Tumbler Ridge
Houston
Kitimat
Mackenzie
Wells-Barkerville
Boaston Bar
Britannia Beach
Cassiar
Cherryville
Dease Lake
Fort Fraser
Fort Steele
Germansen's Landing
Quesnel Forks ......

and on and on they go .... some to be revived again for short periods, others to stay forever dead.

So, for Princeton ... how long will this one last and which lucky political party will be in power at the time when economics will dictate that the latest industrial revival will no longer be viable?

What we need to do that Hawes does not talk about is to make such events "sustainable" in the big picture, not only environmentally, which we have impact assessments for, but socially and economically to help people and communities through the bust cycles. We are getting better at the environmental, but fail miserably at the latter.

" location, location, location" . describes the essential factor that determines whether or not a town can reach that critical mass stage that enables it to overcome being just a "one horse/industry town".

Sadly, I would think that it is just impossible for most of those towns in Gus' to ever be more than they are right now.

It may be that Prince George may be on the way to that stage ---- the irony is that it is all because of the high public expenditure of public money on the University etc --- something that the right feels is not "real" economic activity, or money. That certainly was their line prior to 2001.

"Lets come up with some ideas on how to increase employment over the long term, with some good jobs."

That is impossible. We cannot predict the future with any great certainty.

What we can do, however, is to prepare for change. To build change into the system.

The first step in that is like the first step with respect to any condition. Become aware that the condition of change exists.

There is no such thing as a job category that is forever. Demand comes and goes, the same as one horse towns. In many cases, demand totally disappears. We are part of an organic/living whole and we must recognize that. We are entering into an era when that can be more and more accommodated. It has been instilled into many people's brains that we cannot rely on having one "job" or one "vocation" for our entire lives.

PG is just now, in the past couple of decades, going through a transition of realizing that we cannot continue to rely on forestry, that we have to grow up and get ready to go out into the big bad world and not rely on mommy and daddy's help by giving us part of their riches.

Some are still looking at replacing the fall down in forestry (and that is to a very large degree actually in the loss of jobs through to improved automation and other work processes and has had little to do with product demand and raw material avaialbility until just recently)

I do not think we have to deal with what are going to be the next great jobs if we believe in so called "free enterprise". In that situation we only have to recognize what conditions will cause those whose business it is to create those jobs to come to this part of the world.

Infrastructure?
Resource access?
Economic incentives?
Educated workforce?
Transportation linkages?
Climate?
Stable population/workforce?
Living conditions?
Location, location, location
etc. etc.

Of course, we could also take another approach. Senior government intervention by decentralization and building regions of the province and Canada which are "centres of excellence" in order to spread population to create living conditions which are less congested. Commute times, for instance, and all that means can be considered to be very costly both economically and socially. Move from a 1 to 2 hour total commute every working day for every worker to 20 to 30 minute total commute every day and one gains in ways that are never taken into consideration by those in government. It simply has become a fact of our lives in an urban world.

I see very little, if any, discussion at such big picture aspects of our life styles by any political party and by any government, other than to some minor degree by individual municipal governments which have to deal with the immediate impacts of urban size and design on their population base.

Exactly, Gus

"Sadly, I would think that it is just impossible for most of those towns in Gus' to ever be more than they are right now."

I would partly agree with that. The key is population. BC and Canada is totally underpopulated by the standards of most countries in the world. So far, we have grwon up with that sort of space and boom and bust for the small communities is a by-product of that.

Look at the European countries, and you will see a few large cities such as London, Paris, Madrid, etc. But in others, especially in Germany and Italy, you will see large cities, but they are not as large as those and there are many more that are a million or two, but there are tons of small communities in the hundreds of thousands population and less, that are totally sustainable and have been for a century or more.

Brazil, of course, is totally different. Two huge cities, Rio and Sao Paulo, and then virtually nothing. They even built a new capital city in order to lure people into the centre of the country.

So, how do we see the population distribution in BC when it moves from 5 million ot 10 million to 20 million? Do we care? Will it be a GVRD of 8 million and the hinterlands with 2 million? If we keep going the way we are now, that is exactly what we will end up with.

So, back to Hawes, if he even has the ability to think in that fashion, which I doubt since this is just about "rah, rah, rah" and pats on the back for the stars aligning right for Princeton since there is no planning involved here at all.

To Hawes and others who might agree with him, how about recognizing that doing some planning for the future of BC and how that might look like could be a real game changer for not only the rural areas, but also the continuing livability of the GVRD.

It is strange that the province requires municiplalities to have Official Community Plans in place and that they need to be renewed every 10 years or so but they have no such requirement for the planning of urban settlements and land use in the province. And, the same goes for the the country as well.

So, it is time they did as far as I am concerned.

"--- something that the right feels is not "real" economic activity, or money. That certainly was their line prior to 2001."

Here we go again. It was NOT the NDP that legislated UNBC into existence. IT was Bill VanderZalm's government.

Do some research. It was NOT the right's line prior to 2001, all to the contrary.

The Left kept funding it alright, but the Left was NOT the originator.

If the Right was against it, why did it start under the Right?

"Minister of State for Mining, Randy Hawes, says “So often those who live in the urban centres are so removed from mining, they don’t understand the impact of mining on small communities”"

I'm pretty sure that most people who live in urban centres do understand the impact of mining on small communities. IMHO, the Minister is confusing "urban populations possibly disagreeing with mining" with "urban populations not understanding mining". Rather significant difference in my eye.

The fact that an activity can generate economic benefits, does not necessarily mean that it should always be supported. If mining can be done in an environmentally friendly manner then I don't necessarily have an issue with it. I don't, however, tend to believe that jobs are always the number one consideration. Sometimes the negatives do outweigh the benefits.

The **Right** for the most part was against the University. In fact they viewed it as a total waste of taxpayers dollars, however they went along with the concept, because of their need to do something to try and get re-elected. As it turned out they lost the election anyway, and the rest is history. We are now the proud owners of a **small** University in the Interior.

It seems that not much has changed in this area since then. Many, many private business's and industries closing down, and huge tax dollars being spent on Government projects, Buildings, roads, bridges, airstrips, etc; All at a huge cost with no return. In fact it costs more tax dollars to keep them running.

What does the future hold. More of the same.

Wood Innovation Building. (What the hell is that?)

Community Energy System. (What the hell is that?)

Winter Games. A flash is the pan that will cost huge tax dollars with little or no return to the community. (Dont give me the BS about tourists, or world recognition) Our elected officials will be running around like chickens with their heads cut-off for the next four years, workng on the Winter Games, and the rest of the City will suffer. Huge tax increases in the offing.

New Police Station. This building is prime example of how a little town in the middle of nowhere, with a solid tax base, can go absolutely insane when it comes to spending tax dollars.

Performing Arts Centre. Another huge expenditure that will leave us with a annual operating bill in the area of $500,000.00 per year. Much like the Northern Sports Centre, the CN Centre, and the Civic Centre. All under used and all costing huge bucks for maintenance etc;

Take away the Government spending and you have nothing happening in this town.

Where is the private money. Business's make millions and millions of dollars in this area. Where's the investment????

"We are now the proud owners of a **small** University in the Interior. It seems that not much has changed in this area since then"

Huh? Palopu are you honestly suggesting that UNBC has not had a rather large and significant benefit to PG? From my point of view, UNBC may have actually kept PG viable as a city. It has probably been the single biggest "game changer" in PG since the first pulp mill was built here. It employs a pile of highly paid people, it gives people the opportunity to stay here to receive higher education, it contributes to the city having a more highly educated workforce (which does result in higher paying jobs for those people with those skills), it has culturally diversified the city and it has had spinoff benefits like the various research facilities, the Northern Medical Program and the soon to be built Cancer Centre. None of this would have occurred without UNBC. IMHO, UNBC has given PG the opportunity to transform itself from a city stuck in the 70's and 80's, to a city that has a chance of being competitive for decades and beyond.

As for your question of where the private money is, if our current "corporate citizens" don't want to step up in those regards, maybe we need to start catering to businesses who want to invest here instead and stop worrying so much about pandering to the "old guard".

One good way to start obtaining investment is to show prospective businesses that they can have a an educated workforce here and also to build a city that prospective employees would want to live and work in (clean air, good infrastructure, etc.). Of course, the city could also learn how to plan properly and stick to the plans that they do implement. Quite often they are their own worst enemy in those regards.

"... because of their need to do something to try and get re-elected."

Great! Elections ARE useful for something, after all!

We got UNBC! Please, give us some more gifts during the next election campaign!

"Take away the Government spending and you have nothing happening in this town."

Take away all the private industry and businesses and there will be less than nothing happening in this town'

Ever heard of government funded stimulus initiatives?

Harpo claims that all that stimulus spending drove his government into a fifty billion dollar deficit!

At least our area got SOME of it instead of all of it going to the East.

Should P.G. be the only larger center without a sports centre, hockey arena, civic centre, swimming pool, library, art gallery and museum?

Of course not! Why should it?

NMG, I did not see your post before I commented. You're right on the money! Who would want to live in a city that has only pulp mills and NOTHING else?

UNBC has had a huge impact on this city. I often go up there just to look around and admire it!

I like places like Burns Lake myself. Not all those frills, but still in the dumps.

But hey, ya get ta pay 30% less in taxes for 60% less benefits ..... and yer house costs squat and will be worth squat if ya wanna sell it 5 years down the road.

Now there`s a deal so many people don`t recognize that most will refuse it when offered. They need to get themselves edshikated andstart populatin those small towns .... ;-)

signed: Jed Clampett, Granny, Elly May and Jethro Bodine.

Palopu:- "Lets come up with some ideas on how to increase employment over the long term, with some good jobs.

Any ideas?????"
-------------------------------------------
Work-share, with a far shorter workday. That's likely going to be the only way you'll ever do that. Unless you want to make some fundamental changes to the 'money and price system' itself.

Most are still convinced the current conventions governing that latter are "set in stone" ~ as impossible to alter as the Laws of Gravity, or Theromdynamics, or other such things governed solely by Laws of Nature ~ so no point looking further there.

I didn't suffer through all of Obama's State of the Union Address the other night. Like those poor devils in Congress were compelled to do. But in the one part I did hear, he mentioned an American steel mill that used to employ 1,000 workers. A fortunate one, it's still going. But now employs only 100. And probably makes just as much, or more, steel than it did when the payroll was ten times larger.

What do the other 900 do? Supposedly they're re-trained to do something else. But what? For what attends in steel making is paralleled by what's happening in virtually every other industry. We're displacing 'good' jobs far faster than we're replacing them. And there's only room for so many "greeters" at Wal-Mart, or fry-flippers at McDonalds.

The rest will have to be kept, somehow, and the 'cost' of their keeping will be increasingly borne by those still working, as more and more are displaced. And permanently idled. A "good" war would solve the problem, too. But we might lose, and there's scant indication that the 'culture' of any likely adversaries would emulate our generosity in helping re-build our former foes after the last big attempt at full-employment.

Lets do something besides wishful thinking on some of these subjects.

1. If a University was built for political reasons, without any in depth analysis as to whether or not it is a viable project, whats the chance of its success???

2. We know that the Notre Dame University of Nelson BC was closed by the Provincial Government in 1984 primarily because of the high per student cost. At the time of closure they had approx 2000 students. As a matter of interest Don Cozzetti got his BA at this University.

3. We also know (if we care to look into it) that the per student cost as UNBC is very high, and in fact at present they are being over funded per student. The question is how long can this go on before some action has to be taken.

4. Students from the Northern Medical Program, while going to University here for the 2,3,4, years, actually get their medical degree from UBC, Vancouver.

5. A large portion of the students attending UNBC are part time, which of course drives up the Full Time Equivilent number, but how long do you think we can continue to produce *part time students*

6. 70% of the Undergraduates from this University are from Northern BC, 16% from Southern BC, and the balance from elsewhere. I seriously doubt that their are very many **high paid** jobs in Prince George for the number of students graduating, and they therefore go elsewhere for employment.

7. The Northern Cancer Clinic is being built for the same reason as the University. **Political** and has little if anything to do with UNBC. We will face some serious challenges to get qualified people to staff this centre, over and above those who presently work in this area at the hospital. In any event it is a good addition to the hospital, but overall it will have little impact on the number of people locating in Prince George.

8, Have a nice day.

What school or health care facility isn't built for political reasons? I could be mistaken, but I don't recall hearing about Canfor, Esso or Air Canada lining up to provide these types of services to the general pubic . . .

" The Northern Cancer Clinic is being built for the same reason as the University. **Political** and has little if anything to do with UNBC. We will face some serious challenges to get qualified people to staff this centre, over and above those who presently work in this area at the hospital. In any event it is a good addition to the hospital, but overall it will have little impact on the number of people locating in Prince George."

Not so! Completely negative! The Cancer Clinic and the Cancer Lodge will provide a great economic boost to Prince George. Only those who plan to never have cancer (!) can put such a negative spin on this most positive asset to our community.

Have a nice day

What will be the economic boost??? The only difference that I see is that some of the Cancer Patients that used to go to Vancouver/Kelowna will now go to Prince George. Add on a few jobs for those additional workers at the clinic, and thats about it.

Dont foreget that we already have a huge staff working on Cancer patients in Prince George, especially in the Chemotherapy area. All these people will move into the new building.

If you are so sure of the **economic boost** to the City. Then give us some facts and figures. Ie; Number of new jobs created, number of patients now being treated in Vancouver/Kelowna that will be treated in Prince George. Etc: Etc:

I suggest you havent got a clue as to what the economic impact will be.