Ben : Yesterday the Top Hydro Man was on CBC Radio talking about we don't have the Power right now to supply BC Consumers. The Question I have where are the Megawatts for this Line come from, all this Man could talk about we have to charge more and Smart Meters. I have nothing against new Transmission Lines to open up this Part of BC, but I hate the Hydro Double Talk, if one of the Local Mill or Mines would have to pay the same as us per KWH that would be Millions a Month. I know the buy the Power Wholesale , we as Hydro Customers would like the same Deal and no more talk about fancy new Light Bulbs.

Just wondering why putting power up highway 37 is going to open up an opportunity to ship milk up to Alaska (just using Bens' example), or any product. Why isn't it possible to do it right now without the electrification (is that a word?) of that region? I'm not against the project by no means, I just don't follow how one has anything to do with the other? Anyone?

Yesterday the "Top Hydro Man" on CBC said that for the past 10 years BC Hydro was a net importer of power ---- to point out that we are short of electricity.

This doesn't square with the insert with my bill for Dec 2006 which says " on the coldest winter day, when BC Hydro customers are making their greatest demands on the system, demand is about 10,000 MW. B.C Hydro's electricity system has a total generating cpacity of over 11,000 MW."

Makes one question anything he says.

How to ask more for a Product, you create a artificial Shortage and then ask more for it ,they call it Supply and Demand and you pay for it.

What my last post points out is that any comment about being a net importer has to be looked at in the context of BC Hydro's business of exporting electricity at times of the day when prices are high and importing electricity at times of the day when prices are low. Because of the dams and reservoirs we are able to in effect store electricity whereas other producers of electricity cannot do this.
To talk about being a net importer to suggest we are short of electricity is somewhat misleading at best.

Here is a read that ties in with what Ben was saying about milk, road and electrical ties with Alaska.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/02/18/AlaskaPower/index.html

Information on smart meters.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/05/19/SmartMeterReady/

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/07/05/SmartMeters/

Yes BC is going to need more power but very expensive private generation and bird mincers are not the way.

Maybe the headline should read "The Future is in Alaska, by way of Northwest BC and the Good Citizens of BC who are going to pay for this project" - when Americans push so hard for something to come about, do you really think they have our best interests at heart? This should be a BC project period and to hell with Alaska, let them drink week old milk. The very likely scenario of losing billions being funnelled through Alaska is a very real possibility given our politicians will to aquiesse(sp) to our neighbours, whether they be south or north of us. The lumber industry has already been killed up there, do we need the same thing to happen to our ports as well?

If the power line goes to Alaske, there will also have to be a road built to access the power line. That road will also be access to an Alaska port. So then the commodities from the Northwest will be probably be shipped out of Alaska instead of Stewart or Prince Rupert. They have already said that B.C. could use their port facilities free of charge.

However, how this will open up our "milk products" etc. to the Alaskan market is a huge question. One only has to look at a map of the Alaskan panhandle to realize that just because there may be road access to the panhandle and a port, certainly doesn't mean that our goods will reach the rest of Alaska when there is no adjoining roads.

Most of the services will have to come by our door and from within our city for any new development in the Pacific Northwest.
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Why would PG service this area with products that pass by our door. Most of the services will go through Prince Rupert and come up the coast from Vancouver. All Prince George can supply is smoke and mirrors.

As for BC Hydro being a net importer of power check Rafe Mairs website. BC Hydro today is nothing more then a mouth piece for thr liberals. And free enterprise is none existent in our province today. We have “capitalism” at it finest hour and its all about maximizing profit at the expense of the poor and the middle class.
Cheers

Thanks Ben for being so prescient. Shipping milk to Alaska isn't the problem, it's the U.S. dairy industry which has been the principle impediment to more trade between the regions. It can be loaded right on the ferry at Rupert now. And hopefully this and more trade will start soon. BC already has fish plants in Alaska. Ask Jimmy Pattison.

British Columbia is a net importer of electricity, yes, because BC hasn't built any projects of any magnitude in years. However, BC is smart, selling power to the states. at high prices during peak demand and purchasing lower cost power during the night thereby make a very good profit.

That is why BC is considering some more hydroelectric sites, such a the Peace River. And selling higher cost electricity when demand is heavy and purchasing lower cost power at night from the U.S. to fill dam reservoirs is a smart means to keep electric rates lower for BC!

Alaska's newest project is a 70 megawatt site, which will be added to the region when eventually interconnected to BC Hydro. There are a number of other sites which will come on line there as a consequence of the NTL and an interconnection to Alaska. Importantly, the Tahltan are working on geothermal projects and others which should add further BC production.

Electrical energy isn't really shipped long distances, except when using DC transmission. It only would move within the region between Alaska and the area around the Northern terminus of the NTL. When new sources are added electric power gets shifted somewhat like dominos. There is a movement of electrons and things such as line loses are factored in as well.

BC has some smart folks at PowerEX who do very well for BC. Hopefully this will help folks understand how this works. It isn't magic, but the results are!

The major distribution point for Highway 37 will be either Terrace BC or New Hazelton. Terrace would be the logical choice as it is central to Pr Rupert and Kitimat. Most goods will go to Terrace/Hazelton then on up Highway 37.

There would be no sense in running product from Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, warehouses, to Prince George, and then out again to Terrace/Hazelton, and then out again.

Insofar as milk and fresh produce go. These products are already shipped to Alaska, via truck on a regular basis, all these trucks pass through Prince George and go North, or they go to Hazelton and up. We used to produce milk in Terrace, and Prince George BC. (Dairyland) however these plants were shut down, and the milk now comes out of Vancouver. Same thing for bread.

One should keep in mind that the big expansions on Highway 37, and at Kitimat (Rio Tinto) etc; will actually pull people from Prince George. These people will relocate in the Terrace area, so the net effect on Prince George could in fact be negative as opposed to positive. Dont forget that Terrace is 400 miles West of Prince George, not exactly **next door**

Palopu take a look on a map at the Alaskan panhandle, no connecting roads. That is what Ben could be referring to.

I agree with Palopu on this one. There is virtually nothing that these camps will need that can't be supplied from Terrace. I don't see any point for them to source stuff from PG when it is that much closer there. Honestly though, it's quite possible that many supplies will be flown in, like they are in other remote industrial developments. Employees too could be flown in and they could reside anywhere from PG, to Smithers to Mackenzie.

250 great paying jobs is also a good thing, but those numbers aren't high enough to result in any major growth. I think they would need at least 10 or 20 times that number before anything sustainable over the long-term could possibly develop and that's assuming that the mines have a lengthy lifespan. Even then, we're talking a very small city and not an entire region of booming activity.

The question I have for everyone is what exactly is being planned in PG that result in this growth that everyone seems so certain about? Forestry is going to take a big hit within a few years and that will likely last for decades until the forests regenerate. All of these other major industrial projects are located far away from PG and yes, we may get some support business from them, but it won't be significant enough to grow the population. I could see some more growth in medical and education, but I don't think it will be significant. Perhaps there will be some stuff at the new lands behind the airport, but what are we really talking? PG will be EXTREMELY lucky to have growth of 1-2% a year for the forseeable future IMHO.

To be honest, I think any future job growth is just going to replace what we lose in forestry and this will result in what we've seen here for years, stagnant population growth. The difference is that we'll continue to become less of a blue collar town and more of a "government town" and service centre. The demographics will change, but the population will be stuck at around the 80,000 mark.

If you look at what's actually going on, I don't see any compelling reason to think that the population will grow. School enrollments are down, housing starts are down, empty subdivisions are found all over the city, more and more people are fleeing the "rural" areas of the Province for urban centres, we have an aging population and low birth rates, we have increasing crime rates in the city, commercial development is about at capacity for what the current population can support, the surrounding communities around us are shrinking and the City of PG does not do a great job of competing with cities of similar size when it comes to things like clean air, crime, reputation, planning, etc.

A few mines popping up won't change the fact that there are SIGNIFICANT external factors and local challenges that will have a huge impact on PG to grow. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it won't happen just because the ex Premier thinks it will . . .

I was gonna move anyways.

NMG ... anything I would add to that state of the union would be superfluous!! Good summary.

There is one thing that is missing. That sums up the state of the union, but it does not go into the notion of what, if anything, can be done about it.

In other words, if we can determine that the curent level of development is sustainable are we interested in reaching a larger population and what would it be that would allow us to grow to a city of 100,000 ... 120,000 or whatever over say 15 to 20 years and still remain sustainable so that we have no great up and down fluctuations. What is it that will cause this city to be an integral part of a productive central or northern half of the province? Where are the models in Canada. Sudbury is not. Thunder Bay is not. Sault Ste. Marie is not. Saguenay is not.

The future is in Christy's head.