so I gather that between now and then all we will hear about is how good this HST (Horribly Slimy Tax) is for all businesses...and not hear how it is adversely affecting the regular folks...

""Bell said he and MLA Shirley Bond have been receiving positive feedback from people receiving HST rebate cheques and points out the income tax reduction has gone into effect to partially compensate for the tax.""


Who doesn't like getting a cheque in the mail??

Any income tax reductions are being swallowed up by other taxes introduced by Pat Bell, Shirley Bond and the BC Liberals...like Carbon Taxes, higher taxes collected as fuel prices skyrocket, two tier BC Hydro rates....and the list goes on.

Exactly BCRacer!
Between now and June 24,we will be constantly bombarded with doom and gloom about all the evil things that will come to pass if we get rid of the HST.
Of course,the Liberals don't talk about all the bull that came with it, and all the things we now pay the HST on that we were not taxed on before.
They also don't talk about raising the HST and there is no doubt, they will at some point in the near future, should they be re-elected.( ya right)
If that is not true,then Bell should stand up like a man and tell us that they will NOT raise it in the near future.
Mind you,at the rate the Liberals lie,nobody would believe him anyway.
But he isn't going to do that,because he knows they WILL increase it.
Anyone who actually tracks the HST knows that it IS costing them more per month, inspite of all the feel-good crap the Liberals are feeding us.
Any government that wants something like the HST as bad as the Liberals do,cannot be trusted to tell the truth.
This isn't about the benefits to B.C.taxpayers,it is about them,and there is much we are not being told.
I will be voting against the HST,if for no other reason than on principal, but it is more than just that.
We all need to track every dime the HST takes from us for a couple of months.
People will see that it does cost them more to live every month.
Bell and the Liberals are still lying.
They have no choice but to keep telling more lies to cover the old lies they already told, and Pat Bell is no different than the rest of them.
While he was not the worst of them,he was in it up to his armpits, and he also ignored his own consituents.
He,like the rest of them,owes B.C. and his riding an apology for that!
They brought the mess they are now in on themselves with their arrogance.
Trusting this government now,would be a fatal mistake.

Right on Jim13135,but Bell and Bond are not going to talk about that part!
Like all Liberals,they assume the taxpayers in this province are stupid and cannot see that.

And we should also remember that when dealing with the phoney Christy Clark on the HST,...it was Christy Clark who called the anti-HST protesters the "Taliban" and Bill Vanderzalm the "Taliban leader".
As much as the Liberals would like us to think otherwise,Clark cannot be trusted anymore than the rest of them.
Doing so would be another fatal mistake.
Everything the Liberals do now or in the near future, is designed to get people back on their side.
They are going to lie,cheat,and steal to get us to do just that.
Bell and Bond both thought the nasty Kevin Falcon was the answer, and backed him.
Now all of a sudden Christy Clark is god.
Really have to wonder about a flip-flop like that.

I was not aware that the legislature was in session and had passed any legislation. Either the initiative legislation needs to be amended to change the date and the super majority to a simple majority, or a referendum needs to be enacted and the question determined.

people were saying it was good for the forest industry,well the two mills in p.g look like they never opened and who knows if they ever will! hst is costing the average guy 200 to 300 bucks more a month.

Good point Steve Cooley.
Clark had a meeting with Stockboy Day and all was decided.
Sure a lot of democracy in that process,considering she isn't even the Premier yet!
We are dealing with a government completely out of control!

People wanted a referendum. Now people are getting the opportunity to vote in a referendum.

If the result is in favour of scrapping the HST then the provincial government will take that official verdict of the people to Ottawa and start the process of dismantling it and going back to GST + PST taxation.

Until June 24th the for and against sides should be allowed to state their positions!
That's democracy.

Let future governments learn a lesson from this debacle. Don't try to introduce something as sweeping as the HST on the sly!!!

Hold a referendum FIRST!

Harper was the main manipulator in this, in my opinion, as he set a deadline for both Ontario and B.C. to get with it or lose it!

Nobody seems to remember Harper's direct involvement!

Well said PrinceGeorge!
I am as angry about the way they rammed the HST down our throats, as I am about the tax itself!
And I will remember that when we get to the ballot box next time, federally and provincially.
It is also interesting that the little meeting Clark just had with Stockwell Day, shows that the feds are involved behind the scenes.
Probably to a larger extent than we know.
Not that any Liberal poltician in B.C. is going to admit to that!

pgguru says HST costs the average guy an EXTRA 200 per month........that is complete bull *&^%

If we assume it's an extra $200 at 7%, that would mean that in a year the average guy buys $34,000 in items where the HST applied and PST didn't.

Other than dinners out, haircuts, and houses over $400K there just isn't that many places where HST applies and PST didn't.

But maybe I'm wrong pgguru....maybe the average guy in BC is spending that much at the salon.....haha.

People should really look at how much additional tax they are paying...I bet most of you non-believers would be pretty surprised.

mwk check ur hydro,cable,phone,cell phone,restaurant bill,grocery bill and other expenses like clothes for u kids.it adds up

mwk we would be surprised,when u buy a new home! find out what the extra cost is if u just bought a 450 000 house

It does add up,and quickly.
While the extra cost varies from month to month,it is amazing how much it really amounts to if you track it faithfully on all your bills and receipts.
Right now,I see that it is costing me personally on the average,between 70 and 130 dollars a month.
That figure will go up or down,depending on the person and their expenses and spending habits.
At certain times of the year,depending on what comes due,that can be substancially higher.
Denying that it is happening doesn't make it go away.

I was sick and tired of hearing how we all were cheated out of voting for or against the HST as I really did't think we would really be able to change it......Lo and Behold, finally the people have won!!!! We get to have a say, we get to vote in a referendum June 24, 2011. Smiling Bill, has done something great for the people.
So going back to lincoln's famous phrase, "Government of the people, by the people, and for the people" is what we have in this referendum.

My Brother who lives in Calgary gets an HST rebate check .... I see a problem with the system ... he earned his money in the summer here but spends it in Alberta at school .... yet we who pay HST give it to him ... I would rather give him 260 bucks every once in a while than pay the HST which has cost me considerbly more than that amount since it was implimented

These are interesting times we are living in! The anger many feel about the way the HST was brought in is more than justified. I have followed this very closely and so far the opposition party in Victoria has not made ANY committment to have a democratic referendum. The reason is that that party is dead set against any referendums. It also has not made ANY promise that it would scrap the HST.

In many discussions in the past I have heard on more than one occasion that the official view of the opposition party is that it considers referenda as bordering on mob rule, meaning that it prefers the elected highly educated MLAs and the illustrious leader to decide an issue rather than subject it to a binding vote by the potentially less educated Joe/Jane Public out there.

Of course, it was the (presumably) less elevated public out there which they owe being elected to office to in the first place!

As Paul Ramsay said in a radio interview some years ago: We were elected to rule and that is what we intend to do, no matter what.

Keeping all that in mind I relish the opportunity to have a vote and I shall give my thumbs down to the HST just because a politician thought he could RULE without finding out first how the majority of us poor slobs felt.

I don't like rulers! Often they overstep common sense limits, to our detriment. We are left holding the bag.

I repeat: Be mindful of the scorn of the ones that get up in the morning to go to work and pay all the taxes! They have a lot of hidden power!

You're absolutely right, Prince George.

A lot of people who normally vote NDP were instrumental in getting the number of names needed on the Vander Zalm anti-HST Petition. And they've been equally active in the Recall attempts now happening.

But the NDP leadership is NOT really very enthused. Not that they wouldn't like the chance to pick up a few more seats if any of the Recalls succeed, but because they're terrified of the precendent it will set if any of them ARE successful.

It would mean that the NDP couldn't sneak in measures similar to the way the HST was brought in if they ever form government again. Like another Corporation Capital Tax, for instance. Without risking a Recall campaign being mounted against them. That is why it is so important that at least one of the Recall campaigns succeeds. And to try an ensure none of them will, that's why the date for the Referendum has been moved up.

The Referendum, in reality, is toothless. There is NO legislation in place to make its results binding. It does NOT supersede the role of the Legislature in moving to rescind the HST. Its results, if they indicate the HST is to be replaced, could be challenged in Court by the same "business lobby" groups that challenged Vander Zalm's original Petition. And they have a better case this time than they did then. Recall is really our only hope of getting the HST removed, and a tax, if one is needed, that is fair to all as its replacement.

Right on PrinceGeorge!
Seems the NDP are keeping their heads down and their mouths shut, rather than take a stand.
I think they have an ulterior motive when it comes to the HST that they would rather not talk about,and that concerns me.
I don't trust them either,and considering I have never voted NDP in my life,I likely never will because of their attitude.
A bit of a dilema!
One point...I dislike the term "rule",but that was Paul Ramsey's arrogant attitude.
Seems to me it is an elected governments job to look after the "business" of the the province.
The Liberals seem to like to tell us what to do,think, and feel, and yes,the term "rule" would apply to them.
I don't vote for a candidate in my riding to rule anything.
I vote for them to "listen" to my concerns and those of their consituents and act accordingly.
I vote for them to "represent" me.
That is not happening.
One thing I will give Pat Bell credit for...he gets right to the front and says it the way he see's it,like it or not.
Bond doesn't do that,she ducks the issues with doublespeak and arrogance, and god forbid John Rustad should ever have an opinion on anything!
Hey...speaking of John Rustad...did he fall off the face of the earth or what?
Now there is a guy who will be done in the next election!
Without Gordon Campbell to tell him what to do,he obviously doesn't function very well!
As socredible mentioned,there is no legislation to make the results of a referendum binding.
Considering how badly the Liberals want to remain in power,I really don't think they can be trusted to keep their word.
And I certainly wouldn't trust Christy Clark!
They are just as likely to deep six the results and bide their time until 2013 and settle it in an election.

I am so tired of Pat Bell and Shirley Bond.
Positive feedback on receiving a Government rebate cheque and a ridiculous tax are two seperate things. Our family hasn't received any kind of benefit from the HST. I can tell you there are very few things in our monthly budget we aren't seeing affected by this new taxing system.

"They are just as likely to deep six the results and bide their time until 2013 and settle it in an election."

That would be worse than not holding a referendum at all. I do not think that it is an option. It's like pouring gasoline on themselves and lighting a match.

Pat Bell is more than o.k. with me. He is the hardest working MLA I have ever seen. And he gets actual results. Don't know about Bond. Rustad who?

"Considering how badly the Liberals want to remain in power,I really don't think they can be trusted to keep their word."

Relax. Every government I ever knew wanted to be re-elected. Same here. That is why they will heed the outcome of the referendum rather than face permanent banishment from the B.C. political scene, replaced by a REAL right wing big C Conservative party.

Sure,every government wants to be re-elected,but with the Liberals, it has gone beyond that.
They were willing to sacrifice it all to ram the HST through and that smells like desperation.
Why were they willing to risk it all.
It cost Campbell his job.
Obviously,he thought he could spin it once again,but this time, he blew it.
There is a line,and he crossed it.
Something is not right with these clowns.
Are they trying to simply get re-elected...or are they trying keep someone else out...because of what they will see?

Andy, the HST was not part of the last election campaign! We wish NOW that it had been because who knows what would have been the outcome! The ramming through of the HST came AFTER the government had already won another term!

They were not risking anything because they said that it was not even on their radar! Campbell crossed the line AFTER the election when Harper dangled the 1.6 billion dollar carrot in front of him and showed him the stick of the deadline to accept it!

Campbell went for the carrot and he should have known better! Harper gets away over and over with all kinds of tricks and shenanigans, but he is a very crafty and sly politician, smart enough to know ahead of time that he will get his way yet again! When things get too hot he simply prorogues!

Campbell thought that he could do these political know-you-see-it-now-you-don't contortions on the provincial scene, but he paid the price for his bravado.

Harper comes out smelling like a rose, gets all the benefits.

Campbell became the fall guy.

HST, PST what's the difference? It gets voted out, so what, PST comes back. PST will be on everything and why not jack it up to 8%. If Mr. Rogers can jack up the taxes why not them?

So we get the satifaction of getting to vote but nothing will change. You didn't expect it to did you?

Yes, I agree with you. Nothing will change, except some politicians may think twice before they do something like this again.

Now they promised a referendum. If they go through with it, I will be happy to vote.

Discussions will continue after that about some other misadventures.

It's politics and it's human nature.

"So we get the satisfaction of getting to vote but nothing will change. You didn't expect it to did you?"
-------------------------------------------

It will take much more than a vote in the upcoming Referendum to ever induce change.

Even the Recall campaigns, as important as they are in keeping the pressure on, won't do the trick alone.

Nor will a general election, even if it produced a new government.

The present Parties, ALL of them, have been conditioned into believing that the rules under which governments are financed are sacrosanct. That they cannot be changed.

Unfortunately, while the PRINCIPLES of finance are universal in that all finance is, or should be, a numerical reflection of reality, the rules that currently apply to government finance do not allow this to happen.

For instance, we are told that "..governments are just like any other business, they can't spend more than they take in." Broadly speaking, we could say that the latter part of this may well be true. They can't "spend more than they take in". Not forever, not without some unfortunate consequences accompanying their efforts.

But the first part, that "..governments are just like every other business..." is far from being true in any complete sense of comparison.

Governments do NOT do their 'books' like "..every other business." There is no Provincial Balance Sheet. No listing of Assets, Liabilities and Capital. No accounting equation. Nothing that compares to Profit and Loss in a business. Nothing that shows an increase in Net Worth, or, if the Province is truly being managed properly, whether it is increasing year by year. Or, if it is not, by how much it is decreasing. And what need be done to reverse the situation.

Instead we have a government "Budget". Which, as ALL the Parties now tell us, must be 'balanced'. No matter what.

Now the whole conception of a Balanced Budget is that the government, in the relevant fiscal period, will recover everything FROM the public in taxation that it has spent WITH the public in ONE AND THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME. In other words, it will COMPLETELY recover all its COSTS, including the full cost of ALL CAPITAL expenditure, on all the various things like roads, bridges, hospitals, schools, etc. ~ all things lasting for years and years into the future ~ entirely in the SAME year these things were created. That is the basic principle behind a "Balanced Budget".

Now you show me another 'business' that operates THAT WAY! Businesses 'Capitalise' those kind of costs, and they recover them through allowances for depreciation over the lifespan of the Assets they've built or acquired.

If private businesses did it the way the government says they do it, the prices we pay for the goods and services they offer would be as unaffordable to us as their rapidly rising taxes are making government provided services!

The current idea of a Balanced Budget is a complete fallacy. We are still ringing up debt, unrepayable debt, under the current arrangements. Even when we're said to have a balanced Budget. It's long past time for us to DEMAND honest accounting. We are being literally robbed blind by the present system.

Hey Mwk,my satellite bill alone went up $9 in a month.The lying stinking liberals said everyone would benefit as the price of goods would go down.I bought a pair of snowblower belts less than two years apart.The regular price before the taxes,the new pair cost me $2.80 more than before,and the taxes were an additional $0.33 more than when the PST was in place.They can't use the excuse that the crisis in the middle east and inflation are the reasons for the additional costs,as I'm fairly certain the belts were produced and delivered before these events happened.