According to gov't information Bell says. We all know the track record of the liberals when it comes to telling the truth. Read my lips deficit at 1/2 a billion and ends up at 2.5 billion. No HST on the radar and look what happened. BC rail. Believing info from the liberal gov't...rather doubtful.

Bottom line is, Bells' constituents as a majority didn't want this tax and he still toed the party line against the people who elected him. And to add insult to injury he is now still going against the wishes of his constituents by telling us HE thinks the winds are changing in the favour of the HST. Don't think so. My biggest concern is the referendum question is going to be a loaded one like, Would you rather keep the HST at 12% or go back to PST/GST with a moderate increase in PST.
Thats the only thing that will put people on the fence. They have more than indicated they don't want the HST.

Of course, nobody wants a tax, everybody wants a health care system, roads, education system, social safety nets, etc etc etc.

Wasn't it the NDP who originally wanted the HST in the late 90's. Nobody talks about that do they.

The only thing that the Liberals did wrong was the lack of communication. The HST is here, it is gonna stay, so suck it up and carry on.

The HST does nothing for the health care system, roads, education system, social safety nets, etc etc etc.

It just shifts the tax burdon from business to consumers. It's "trickle down economics" all over again.

Remember why we are told communism doesn't work? Because it destroys ambition, and because people are too motivated by self interest to help their fellow man.

Meanwhile we're supposed to think that business, which is completely selfish, will become altruistic and pass on all or a portion of savings to their fellow man.

Its only going to stay because of the cost of reverting back to what we had. Most people don't mind paying taxes if they are to be spent appropriately. But, the HST is not a tax increase to fund the social and medical net. It is a tax break for business. Any tax that is brought in in the underhanded, lying, secretive way that is was can not be good for the average citizen or it would have been debated in the house and the people would have had it as an election issue. Knowing full well it would not fly with the voters they snuck it in under the radar. I don't know about you, but I don't want my govt treating me like that.

Well maybe if this tax was going to health, roads, education etc. we could suck it up.

But it's going to the businesses, large and small, and I'm sure you must know that. It's a 2 billion dollar tax shift from business to consumer, supposedly revenue neutral.

So no matter how they try to spin it, regarding HST refund cheques, or things that haven't changed from under the GST/PST, the fact remains that the consumer is paying 2 billion more and the businesses 2 billion less.

I am really bothered by the fact that it has become them against us. I thought that our government and the people are supposed to be on the same side. They are using our resources and money to convince us to "come over to their side".

Now what's with that?

Moving up referendum will only give them excuses for more "voting glitches".

Pst, GST or HST. Has always been an expense for business. It all is a flow through tax.

PST, it was always worked into it as an expense to running the business. As the inventory works thru the business, whatever we saved on the PST will be eroded away as cost increases. Its not that much of a savings. At least I have not seen any extra money out of the deal.

Politicians, they generally do what they need to do, to get elected and stay in power. Thus the citizens should be voting for what they believe in.

NDP, Left wing, any further left it would be Communism. Supporting social programs, resulting in higher personal taxes, higher corporate taxes, eventually gaining total control of everything we do.

BC Liberals, right of center, any further right and we would be user pay society.

He spoke:-
PST used to be a business expense, GST was refunded to business. Now GST and PST are both refunded to business in the form of HST.

We collect HST on everything we earn, then deduct that which we pay for goods and services, and forward the remainder to the Government. If we don't earn anything with HST collected, then we fill out the form every quarter and get a refund cheque from the Government for the total amount we have paid on our purchases.

The shortfall in tax revenue because of this extra 7% refund is made up by the consumers paying extra tax on a huge number of items.

I can't believe you didn't understand this if you're in business.

In effect we save 7% on all goods and services we purchase.

The main hidden thrust of the HST is to tax the cost of service employment. To tax the gross cost of low paying service industry employees through taxing the gross revenue they bring in for their services. Modern day wage slaves... literally.

Its the low income employees in the service industry that will pay the most for this tax as they find their low profit margin jobs become no longer viable when the gross revenue is taxed... rather than the net revenue after expenses like the income tax they also pay.

I see multiple betrayals in this double tax on income revenue.

Starting off with the lie that it was not on the agenda at election time three months before it was implemented... a clear violation of the principles of democracy to have an informed voter... they mock the democracy that gives them their power to tax us.

Further betrayal in that it is a tax transfer from big business to the consumers.

Enhanced betrayal in that it is a flat tax on small service industry employers gross revenue, rather than on their net income.

Ultimate betrayal in that it was the over paid public employees that engineered this tax grab from the private sector employers so as to generate revenue for their collective bargaining positions that would not be tied to any specific accountable expenditure.. therefor a piggy bank for them to rob with impunity.

The real enemy here IMO is the public sector unions that engineered this HST tax behind closed doors and presented it to opportunistic politicians and the large corporate business community in betrayal of the people they are suppose to be working for... all for selfish gain to create a tax with no future accountability for the milking of the government revenue from the middle working class citizens that should be the basis of our economy.

Of course the ndp and the big business liberal party insiders are in full support of the lie that is the HST... it gives them the ability to pay the public sector ransom when it comes due. That's what its all about after all.. designed by and for....

'Of course, nobody wants a tax, everybody wants a health care system, roads, education system, social safety nets, etc etc etc.'

That line of argument is closer to the truth than most people realize... not because this is the 'only' way to fund these services... but rather its the most unaccountable way to fund these services with the least resistance to their demands.

I will vote no. If Kristy still wants it she will be gone. Bell too.

HST is not funding 1 item more. Nothing to do with health care or gov't services. Remember Campbell's words about the HST.......revenue neutral. 2 billion less for industry and 2 billion more for the consumer.
In Campbell's mind the HST is fair but then again he is not premier any longer since a lot of people did not think it is fair to dump an extra 2 billion in taxes on the back of the consumer. Just to bad Campbell did not stay around for the next election.

Ignorance is bliss!

A tax shift pure and simple. Business used to pay this tax, now it is being paid by consumers.

Anyone who cannot understand that they are being shafted, should immediatley go for a head check.

Bring on the referendum, after we kick this tax the hell out, you will see that the Government will make a few cosmetic changes and carry on. In fact the new Premier Crispy Crunch, and her collegues will put a spin on the removal of the HST, and it will go like this:

You signed a petition that collected the legal number of signatures to have this issue go to a referendum.

We moved the referendum date up to June 24th so that we could have it dealt with.

You have voted to have the HST removed and the PST re-instated, and we will do this.

We have heard the people, and acted on your wishes. We are a peoples Government.

Then we go into an early election, with the(new) Liberals taking credit for removing the HST. This (spin) might be all they need to win the next election, which gives them another four years to figure out how to screw us another way.

Christy Clark, and the Liberals cannot go into an election with the HST hanging around their neck. They have to deal with it. They have come to the conclusion that the best way to handle it is to have a referendum, and get rid of it. This was the creation of Gordon Campbell and Colin Hansen. The rest of the Liberals were just yes men. They will now do whatever Christy says.

If you dont beleive me just watch Bell and Bond for the next few months if you want to get a lesson in **Grovelling**

"They have come to the conclusion that the best way to handle it is to have a referendum, and get rid of it."

Precisely - plenty good enough for me!
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" They will now do whatever Christy says."

Just like all the BCNDP MLAs toed the line when Glen Clark was ruling. It's the way a party (ANY PARTY!!!!!!) sticks together to get things done.

That's how ALL the Conservative MPs in Ottawa are expected by Harpo to toe the line! It's either his way or the highway! Long is the list of Cons who invoked somehow displeasured the boss and were sent packing!

Carole James expected ALL MLAs to obey - one wrong move and it was game over.

They ALL are expected to *grovel* - as some like to call it!

Name one party that works on a different principle!

2 days to go.
What will be really interesting is who goes and who stays.
Clark will be dealing with a cabinet of very unpopular people,and keeping the wrong ones around will cost her big points.
It will also confirm what many are already saying...she is just another Campbell puppet, under the direction of the Liberal old boy's club.
And I agree, Palopu...there is going to be some serious groveling by those who didn't support Clark.
She is known for being a bit hateful if somebody crosses her.
Bond,Bell,and the missing John Rustad are probably all a bit nervous right now.
(which reminds me...where IS John Rustad?)