If you run a pizza store and customer's aren't buying pizza because it's too expensive, charging more won't help your sales or profit. You don't need to take a year and a half long, $34,000 MBA program from UNBC to understand this.

Yes you do as you would learn in that course that by raising the tuition you aren't going to get local students to register. That will leave more seats open for foreign students who pay 3X more the tuition.

Same tuition raise is happening at all BC universities. Still a steal of a deal for a top ranked university education. At least it is not like in the UK where tuition is really skyrocketing!

Tuition fees go up and so do pay raises

Pojeb ....

You might want to educate yourself in some fashion that tuition fee is not a deal breaker when it comes to which university one chooses. Getting an education is not exactly like buying a pizza. And even with pizza, one pizza is not the same as another.

Let us look at a relatively standard program across the country - medicine. I chose this because we have a handy comparison for us on the internet which compares all English speaking programs across the country with criteria such as tuition, applicants/seat, average GPA of the accepted students etc.

here is the site: http://www.oxfordseminars.ca/MCAT/mcat_profiles.php

Here is the sort of lowest to highest tuition fee
1 Memorial $6,250
2 U Manitoba $7,377
3 Dalhousie $8,286
4 Saskatchewan $12,973
5 McGill $13,224
6 Calgary $14,600
7 ***UBC/UNBC/Victoria/Kel $15,457
8 Northern Ontario $15,915
9 Western Ontario $17,040
10 Queens $18,228
11 Toronto $18,424
12 Ottawa $19,019
13 U of A $19,630
14 McMaster $21,567

Here is the sort by number of applicants per seat:
1 ***UBC/UNBC/VIC/KEL 6.6
2 Dalhousie 6.8
3 U of A 7.4
4 McGill 7.6
5 U Manitoba 7.7
6 Saskatchewan 10.7
7 Calgary 11.2
8 Toronto 12.0
9 Western Ontario 13.9
10 Memorial 14.1
11 McMaster 18.6
12 Ottawa 23.3
13 Northern Ontario 27.3
14 Queens 33.2

And here it is based on the academic average of accepted students (except where “min” denotes the minimum grade required to get in)
1 Northern Ontario 75.0% min
2 Ottawa 75.0% min
3 Calgary 80.0%
4 U of A 82.5% min
5 ***UBC/UNBC/VIC/KEL 85.0%
6 U Manitoba 89.8%
7 Saskatchewan 90.0%
8 Queens 92.0%
9 Memorial 92.5%
10 Western Ontario 92.5%
11 Dalhousie 95.0%
12 McMaster 95.0%
13 McGill 95.8%
14 Toronto 97.0%

So, based on that, if tuition fee is your key criteria, since UBC/UNBC is in the middle of the pack. I should note that the chances of getting in to several of the schools are lessened if you do not live in the province where the school is located.

The chances of getting in base on number of applicants per seat alone are the best at UBC/UNBC

As far as GPA of those who were accepted, well UBC/UNBC is one of the easiest if you are not a top ranked student. Toronto, McGill, McMaster and Dalhousie are the cream there.

Conclusion? A tuition fee rise is not going to have any effect on the number of students coming to the meds program here and I suggest few other programs will be affected either since they are rising everywhere.

Of course, you can make the pizza just that little bit smaller, put a few less pieces of pepperoni on it ... you know, all those things you other competitors are doing rather than going out of business.

MBA, eh? Maybe you can get a cheap deal somewhere. I hear they are not that popular anymore. :-)

Gus:
I must tip my hat to you. A wonderful and lucid posting. All pizzas are not the same. Has anyone notice all the beaters these university students drive? They don't they all have nice new cars. I would say that I think it would be nice to get top grades in high school, but it would be interesting to see how much they actually help once your in the university. University is a whole new ball game or should I say pizza.

gus,

FTA: “In addition to rising costs, UNBC is constrained primarily by two factors: static funding from the Province and enrolments that are not rising,”

"Not rising," is a great way of saying enrollment has plateaued, or is on the decline. Raising tuition will not help this.

You don't think high cost is a deal breaker, yet clearly it is for many people. Your conclusion that admissions in few other program will be affected by higher tuition is deceptive when you compare the rest of UNBC's programs against their flagship offering.

Of course, if you are right that increasing tuition will have no effect, then CNC must be very stupid not to take the opportunity to raise their tuition at the same time as UNBC since by your reckoning it won't affect enrollment. Oh wait, we're comparing college to university, that probably doesn't count.

Heck, why doesn't UNBC hike tuition 20%, since it won't deter anyone from going.

I have been watching the UNBC MBA ads repeating all across Northern BC TV stations for many months (Thanks, Starchoice!), so I'm getting the distinct impression UNBC isn't having an easy time selling the program, and I certainly haven't noticed UNBC advertising any other programs.

Pojeb has it right. The fact of the matter is, is that enrollments at UNBC are in decline.

Total students in academic programs Aug 09 4332. Sept 2010. 4183. Decline 149.

Total undergraduate students Aug 09 3638 Sept 2010 3469. Decline 169.

Do not have the Full Time equivilent numbers however you can rest assured that there is a decline. This means a considerable loss of funding to UNBC because as you know funding is based on the number of FTE Students.

The University has been talking about programs to increase student enrolments for a number of years now, however it is not happening, nor will it happen.

North Central BC does not have the population base, nor does it have a sufficient number of graduate students to manage any kind of significant increase in enrolments. In other words we have **hit** the wall.

70% of students are from the Northern Interior,
16% from the Southern Interior
14% from elsewhere. (368 Students from 43 Countries)

I suggest that with a declining population in North Central BC, a less than stellar graduating record in our schools, a high drop out rate, and a large number of students with no interest in going to University we have a serious problem.

I expect that the enrolments at UNBC will continue to decline over the next 10 years, and they will have some very significant problems to overcome in regards to keeping afloat.

University tuition fees for full-time Canadian and international students in an arts and humanities program at the undergraduate level at AUCC member institutions, 2010 - 2011

http://www.aucc.ca/publications/stats/tuition_e.html

There are 74 distinct universities in the list which present BA programs. Some have lower fees for in province applicants. Quebec is one of those and has a large number of universities. Its local tuition is $2,068 and out of province is $5,568. UNBC tuition is $4,538. That is 16th lowest in the list if you consider the Canadian rate as opposed to the local provincial resident rate. The average Canadian tuition for a BA program is $5,400 with the median at $5,200.

So, anyone wanting to follow the cheapest seats, UNBC is certainly on the radar in either case, less so though for those from Quebec, Manitoba and Newfoundland since local students going to local universities are much more highly subsidized than in BC.

So, the notion that a 2% tuition fee hike - especially without knowing the across the country situation with hikes in other provinces – will affect student’s decision about going elsewhere is certainly a wrong notion.

Generally across the country and also in BC, tuition fees at post grad universities are definitely higher than at those who have no post grad studies or very limited seats for those students. There is a difference of some $1,000+. The same holds for those colleges which have not been granted 4 year degree granting status, such as CNC. For those students who do not have the marks to get into university and/or want to spend less, they will go to the local colleges for the first couple of years.

So, the tuition at UNBC when compared across the country is among the lowest. When compared to BC’s four post grad universities, it is second lowest. The four universities are all higher than the “University Colleges” since supporting graduate school programs is expensive.

Now, there is one more thing. Your biases are showing as is your lack of doing research before you put fingers to keys.
Both of you are basically anti UNBC. That is a given.
This, as well as other universities must get used to operating in a now growth or low growth environment. With the recent proliferation of university seats in BC, there is a bit of a glut for now. As the provincial population increases, there will be competition among the universities to access those bodies from other parts of the province.
Here is Kamloop’s Thompson River University site in downtown Vancouver. UNBC also has ads all over the Skytrain stations.
[urlk]http://newsroom.blog.mytru.ca/2010/11/02/tru-unlocks-the-possibilities-to-education-in-vancouver[/url]

UNBC has 20% of its full time students registered in post grad school. That is higher than many when you do a cross country comparison with other post grad universities. In order for them to grow, I believe they must grow their post grad programs, such as engineering, for instance.

The notion that a university’s survival, or the survival of this city, or the survival of an autobody shop depends on growth is a North American notion. There are many countries in the world that have hit a no growth or even a negative growth scenario and are managing quite well.

http://newsroom.blog.mytru.ca/2010/11/02/tru-unlocks-the-possibilities-to-education-in-vancouver

If $90 a year is a deal breaker for you, you weren't that dedicated in the first place. Let's use our heads here, costs go up for everything, 2% is below what inflation is, so I say good job UNBC on trying to keep your tuitions low.

Also, compare the cost of an apartment in Prince George to one in Vancouver, they could knock the price up $90 a month and it would still be cheaper to go to UNBC.

The main weakness of UNBC is mismanagement of its resources. At the time when UNBC is facing financial problems and declining enrollment (-3% last year), why UNBC wastes money by firing those like Mcnamara who are from Prince George and hiring someone out of the province? It only drives away the PG students to other universities.

If UNBC has financial problems why it wastes money on additional legal fees defending discrimination instead of respecting its contractual agreements?
There is no need for 2% increase if UNBC stops wasting money on forced buyouts on people like McNamara and on failed arbitration and legal battles with faculty members, staff and faculty association.

It is time for UNBC to change course and start motivating its faculty members by following the law. No more excuse for UNBC to ignore the proposals for new programs from its faculty members and no more excuse for financial waste.

Gus. Your operating under the illusion that all Universities are somewhat equal, and that students would flock to UNBC because tuition is equal, and housing is cheap compared to Vancouver.

If that was so then why do so few people from the lower mainland come North???

I suspect that if we could access the numbers you would find that more students go to Vancouver Universities from the North, than come to the North. Why would that be. Could it be because the Southern Universities, like UBC, Simon Fraser, have **Status*. It could also be because students (contrary to popular beleive) want to get away from their parents, and start their own lives, especially in Cities where there are some opportunities besides foresty, or government work.

In any event the discussion is **moot** because the figures speak for themselves. As noted above a -3% decline last year.

Its amazing to me that when we have hard facts that almost every town and village from Cache Creek to Pr Rupert, Kitimat, Ft Nelson, has been declining in population,
and that the trend is expected to continue for the next 10/15 years, and that there will continue to be declines in enrolments in schools, all over North Central BC, that some people still think that we can somehow maintain or increase enrolments at UNBC... I suspect that with the world recession, and with European countries going broke, we will even have less foreign students.

I have talked to many many people in the lower mainland over the years, and suggested that they come to Prince George and live and work. Without fail they just laugh. Coming here is not an option for most people in the lower mainland, southern interior, or the okanogan.

Unless you have a decent job to come to, you will not come here. No jobs, no people.

Palopu, please read my words. They are the same as can be frequently seen on this site, whether in association with the University, the City or any other organization ..... WE ARE HOOKED, IN NORTH AMERICA, ON GROWTH ... period!!!!

We absolutely can only work with growth because we know how to rob from Peter to pay Paul.

Post secondary institutions especially are hooked on program changes and additions. Just like a new university and college get start up funds for several years during which they do not have to show the total enrolment figures which would normally be required to justify the government funding levels, the same hold for new programs. Get a new program and you get more dollars for faculty who are likely not on teaching load but are preparing curriculum and setting up labs, promoiting the programs, articulation with programs at other institutes, etc. You get more money for library aquisitions, facilities, equipment, etc.

The reason why that is advantageous is because those same new assets also serve other programs at the instituion and ingest cash flow.

So, there is an adrenalin rush for 2+ years.

If growth stops, there is the normal per seat funding. The same with cities. If there is no growth, there is no increased tax income unless you raise taxes. Both have to learn how to operate with a flat income rather than a constantly climbing curve.

Simply put, the problem is not tht we have no growth. The problem is that we do not know how to run an organization that has no growth.

BTW, the number of undergraduate bodies decreased by 102 students or 3.4%. The FTE count decreased by 1.2% as reported to the Senate at the October 27, 2010 meeting.
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Also you wrote: "Your operating under the illusion that all Universities are somewhat equal"

How on earth do you ever read that from my writing? I thoought I showed that there are other reasons than tuition levels that studetns base their decisions on for going to University A versus B. Look at my posting on medical programs.

It is interesting that what one student might see as ideal at a university, another would see as detrimental.

It is preposterous to even suggest that a medical progam at McMaster, which will charge foreign students over $100,000 per year is of the same callibre as one at UVIC. The same goes for other programs.

Of course, they both turn out MDs and the perrson who will save your life may have graduated from a lesser recognized university than the one who botched up the operation that nearly killed you.

We all get differnt things from a university education. To many of us, much of it is more about the student than about the prof or the environment.

Thanks for the info Gus. The local paper has an article to-day that pretty well outlines what is happening at the University.

At present they are being funded for a higher number of FTE students than they actually have. This has been going on for sometime, however I doubt if it will continue.

UNBC is currently more than -10% short of BC Ministry of advanced education targets mainly because UNBC failed to increase the enrolment for the millions UNBC received as part of DTO (Double The opportunititis).

The untold story is that the last year decline of -3%, if it is in the 1st year student enrolments, then can snowball and double next year (i.e. additional decline for 2nd-year students) and triple the following year (i.e. additional decline for 3rd year) and become -12% in four year time.

It seems the present provost Mark Dale is in deep trouble, considering his contract is for renewal in 1.5 years time. He didn't deliver because he failed to motivate his team of faculty members.

One hopes he learns from his mistakes and changes course immidiately. He needs to fight the competition and stop fighting the faculty association and faculty members.